Bi/Pan Thread

Talk about anything and everything.

What ARE you?!

I'm gay
12
52%
I'm gay, but have some attraction towards the opposite sex ("homoflexible")
3
13%
I'm bisexual
6
26%
I'm not bisexual/gay, but have some attraction towards the same sex ("heteroflexible")
2
9%
I'm straight
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 23

Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 5 March 2020, 21:02

A 2016 report by the US based Movement Advancement Project that might be of interest.

Particularly interesting is the statistic that only 28% of (US) bisexual people report that they are out to "all the people who are important to them", compared to 77% for gays and 71% for lesbians. Why do you think this is? It's certainly true that I'm not out to everybody important to me.

The reported health disparities are also interesting, and no doubt due to perceived levels of discrimination and generally low levels of "outness". However, might the disparity be influenced by the fact that black/minority ethnic people more frequently report bisexual orientation, and them suffering discrimination because of that as usual?

Anyway, just thought I'd post it here, in case people were interested in discussing!
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby PopTart » 5 March 2020, 21:11

I cant remember if I've ever expressed this sentiment in the forum before, but it's been my experience and I've heard it said to me before, that many people feel less secure with someone e who is bisexual as a partner, as there is always something sexual, that they like, that one person alone can't satisfy.

I know of people in strong and happy relationships with bi partners who dont have these concerns but in my experience, they are the people possessed of considerable self confidence and assurance anyway and arent concerned as much with matters of fidelity as a result.

I wonder how many bisexual people are either consciously or subconsciously aware of this perspective, no matter how founded in rational thought it may or may not be and as such, tend to avoid bringing it up too often.

I honestly cant speak to the ethnic angle, I know too few to have any solid information.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 5 March 2020, 21:35

PopTart wrote:I cant remember if I've ever expressed this sentiment in the forum before, but it's been my experience and I've heard it said to me before, that many people feel less secure with someone e who is bisexual as a partner, as there is always something sexual, that they like, that one person alone can't satisfy...

I wonder how many bisexual people are either consciously or subconsciously aware of this perspective, no matter how founded in rational thought it may or may not be and as such, tend to avoid bringing it up too often.

I am definitely aware of this perspective, yeah. :lol: It's never actually been said to me directly, but I'm led to understand that it's a common feeling. I've heard it said by several people that they actually don't tell their partners. I've always told them, and I've not personally had that be a total dealbreaker.

It's kind of difficult to comment on, since I've no doubt that there are bisexual people who do feel the need to have multiple partners, but I am not one of them, so far as I can see. :P Speaking personally, it's more of a matter of liking the person regardless of their sex/gender, rather than that person representing a particular sex/gender.

Also speaking personally, I'm not entirely sure it's particularly helpful to keep banging on with the several varieties of moral purity argument that you usually see on this topic: e.g: not all bisexuals! Of course not all bisexuals. Clearly. But maybe there is something radical going on here? What are the implications for interpersonal dynamics here? Is it workable? What different kinds of relationships are implied by bisexuality? Ain't it interesting? :P

But yes, I'd be sympathetic to the worry. That is natural in such a vulnerable situation. Perhaps not a completely rational worry a lot of the time, but understandable.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby erti » 6 March 2020, 00:29

Eh I’m a woman and when men find out I’m bisexual they always assume I’m up for a threesome with another girl. My ex talked about it a lot. I stop caring and tbh It can be awkward during sex because of my past sexual abuse. I get flash backs and such. Lol I’m a snowflake I get triggered.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 6 March 2020, 07:50

erti wrote:Eh I’m a woman and when men find out I’m bisexual they always assume I’m up for a threesome with another girl. My ex talked about it a lot. I stop caring and tbh It can be awkward during sex because of my past sexual abuse. I get flash backs and such. Lol I’m a snowflake I get triggered.

Urg... That sounds terrible. >.<

From what I've heard, it seems that bisexual women are perceived in a hyper-sexualised way, and bisexual men are perceived to be lying. The difference between how bi men and women are reportedly perceived is quite interesting.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Brenden » 6 March 2020, 11:44

I thought bi men are also sometimes perceived as hyper-sexual.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby erti » 6 March 2020, 16:10

Brenden wrote:I thought bi men are also sometimes perceived as hyper-sexual.


I think they do by other gay men. It’s mainly straight people assuming they’re lying. Some gay men don’t date them because they assume they’ll cheat on them and like you say are hyper sexual. Lesbians do that too. Not date bi women for similar reasons. Come to think about it it’s similar between straight women with bisexual men. I’m just generalizing and not all them think that way.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 6 March 2020, 17:51

Brenden wrote:I thought bi men are also sometimes perceived as hyper-sexual.

Probably true. Again, I'd probably go against the grain and ask, "well, what's wrong with that, then?", just because I like to puncture pretensions and fill people with doubt. :P

erti wrote:I think they do by other gay men. It’s mainly straight people assuming they’re lying. Some gay men don’t date them because they assume they’ll cheat on them and like you say are hyper sexual. Lesbians do that too. Not date bi women for similar reasons. Come to think about it it’s similar between straight women with bisexual men. I’m just generalizing and not all them think that way.

I was always led to believe that there's a strong general trend of dislike or mistrust of bisexual women by lesbians, probably more so than that for bisexual men and gays. Would you say this is true, in your experience?

Intriguingly, the insult of choice way back in the 60's/70's was "traitor", apparently. Intriguing in that the insult basically can't be used these days, at least not by the mainstream who hold to a strong "born this way" kind of thinking. That's a whole other kettle, though. :P
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby erti » 6 March 2020, 18:38

Magic J wrote:
Brenden wrote:I thought bi men are also sometimes perceived as hyper-sexual.

Probably true. Again, I'd probably go against the grain and ask, "well, what's wrong with that, then?", just because I like to puncture pretensions and fill people with doubt. :P

erti wrote:I think they do by other gay men. It’s mainly straight people assuming they’re lying. Some gay men don’t date them because they assume they’ll cheat on them and like you say are hyper sexual. Lesbians do that too. Not date bi women for similar reasons. Come to think about it it’s similar between straight women with bisexual men. I’m just generalizing and not all them think that way.

I was always led to believe that there's a strong general trend of dislike or mistrust of bisexual women by lesbians, probably more so than that for bisexual men and gays. Would you say this is true, in your experience?

Intriguingly, the insult of choice way back in the 60's/70's was "traitor", apparently. Intriguing in that the insult basically can't be used these days, at least not by the mainstream who hold to a strong "born this way" kind of thinking. That's a whole other kettle, though. :P


I’ve been accused of lying about my sexuality back in high school because I wasn’t interested in getting in a relationship with the girl that asked me out but maybe like a few months later I got into a relationship with my ex who’s a guy.

I think women tend to be more judge mental with other women with sexuality. while men are more insecure about their sexuality if their sexuality is questioned (mainly “straight” men).

As for lesbians not trusting bi women I think it’s true that it’s more so in the lesbian community than gay men.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 6 March 2020, 18:54

erti wrote:I’ve been accused of lying about my sexuality back in high school because I wasn’t interested in getting in a relationship with the girl that asked me out but maybe like a few months later I got into a relationship with my ex who’s a guy.

That's, like, exactly akin to the "oh, so you're a lesbian, then" response that some women apparently get when they say they're not interested in a guy. :facepalm:

erti wrote:I think women tend to be more judge mental with other women with sexuality. while men are more insecure about their sexuality if their sexuality is questioned (mainly “straight” men).

Oh yeah, can defo vouch for the male insecurity. :lol: I've heard it theorised that this is perhaps one of the reasons why bisexuality isn't particularly well liked: men can prove they're not gay by sleeping with women, but they can never prove they're not bisexual by doing so. And since a lot of people seem to follow the "not even once" rule, "bisexual" can basically be read as "gay", which is, obviously, horrifying to many men. They can't signal their way out of possibly being perceived as bisexual (remember, that means "gay"), and this is discomfiting, I suppose. It's also hypocritical, since they've all done it.

Well, maybe not all. A lot of them, though. :P

erti wrote:As for lesbians not trusting bi women I think it’s true that it’s more so in the lesbian community than gay men.

Interesting. I would originally have supposed the opposite to be true, given that the common narrative is that males are generally more "rigid" in their orientation. Even that might not be true. My deconstruction hat is firmly on today. :P
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby erti » 6 March 2020, 19:14

Well the when it comes to men they’re more ridged with being gay and bi in general and the thought of having sex and a relationship with a guy. Not necessarily bi sexuality in general.

I find sexuality and trans acceptance among the generation Z crowd more than even the millennials. When I was in high school they had a gay straight alliance gsa and people threaten to go to meetings with base ball bat and beating everyone in there . Also there was a lot of signs saying “Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve”.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby PopTart » 6 March 2020, 19:43

erti wrote:Well the when it comes to men they’re more ridged with being gay and bi in general and the thought of having sex and a relationship with a guy. Not necessarily bi sexuality in general.

You may be right that men have a strange attitude about their sexuality still.

It just happened to transpire, that a conversation began at work ( :shifty: ) in which the question was posed to the guys there "if you could reach it, would you blow yourself" and to my utter shock, the vast majority of the men, of varying ages, said no! That it would be too gay?!

Like seriously, wtf? That wanting to suck yourself, would somehow translate to wanting to suck other penises. I just didn't understand it. Surely it's just another avenue of self satisfaction :shrug: The irony was, that the only man to say he would do it for just that reason, was an ex marine, who is totally conservative straight guy, as he said it, he loves his penis, so why not? All the others I feel were more concerned with how the would be percieved by others, to answer truthfully. Or intimidated by the implications that might come from enjoying sucking a dick, any dick, even their own. :lol:

erti wrote:I find sexuality and trans acceptance among the generation Z crowd more than even the millennials. When I was in high school they had a gay straight alliance gsa and people threaten to go to meetings with base ball bat and beating everyone in there . Also there was a lot of signs saying “Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve”.

This is an unfortunate consequence of mainstream acceptance and even pro attitudes, counter culture has always been the cause of the youth of the day, it just so happens that Anti diversity, IS the counter culture now. :shrug:

Some studies actually show increased conservative sentiments among young people across the US and various European nations. Although it can be hard to say for certain how accurate that is. I just as often hear conservatives complaining that universities are indoctrination plants for liberal tyrants.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby erti » 6 March 2020, 20:24

Well the whole would you blow yourself if you could is interesting because if you think about it, it’s basically masturbation and masturbating doesn’t make you gay. Maybe fantasizing a gay encounter while masturbating maybe.

I find a lot more people using the word snowflake and sjw (social justus warrior) when referring to liberals in general or if they go against their radical right views.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby PopTart » 6 March 2020, 20:54

erti wrote:Well the whole would you blow yourself if you could is interesting because if you think about it, it’s basically masturbation and masturbating doesn’t make you gay. Maybe fantasizing a gay encounter while masturbating maybe.

My point exactly!
erti wrote:I find a lot more people using the word snowflake and sjw (social justus warrior) when referring to liberals in general or if they go against their radical right views.

My point exactly, I try not to get caught up in identity politics, im a centrist (I know! Hisss!) so I tend not to relate to either and can, at differing times, empathise with both (very rare times) being a fence sitter does afford some unique perspective I like to think.

I hear alot of words like those, boomer too, cis male etc They are all reductive, divisive and unhelpful to debate. That the prevailing accepted culture is one side of the coin, or the other, doesn't really matter, it's the arguements they ought to be having in place of the labelling war.

But im abit off topic, sorry magic! :P
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby erti » 6 March 2020, 21:10

PopTart wrote:
erti wrote:Well the whole would you blow yourself if you could is interesting because if you think about it, it’s basically masturbation and masturbating doesn’t make you gay. Maybe fantasizing a gay encounter while masturbating maybe.

My point exactly!
erti wrote:I find a lot more people using the word snowflake and sjw (social justus warrior) when referring to liberals in general or if they go against their radical right views.

My point exactly, I try not to get caught up in identity politics, im a centrist (I know! Hisss!) so I tend not to relate to either and can, at differing times, empathise with both (very rare times) being a fence sitter does afford some unique perspective I like to think.

I hear alot of words like those, boomer too, cis male etc They are all reductive, divisive and unhelpful to debate. That the prevailing accepted culture is one side of the coin, or the other, doesn't really matter, it's the arguements they ought to be having in place of the labelling war.

But im abit off topic, sorry magic! :P


When it comes to politics in the us I’ve been called far left when in reality I’m probably more center than anything really. The whole snowflake and sjw doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is the blatant disregard of a civil debate on both sides of the spectrum. Not every white person is racist and not every minority is a criminal. If we can get past the name calling I think there might be a compromise that doesn’t go against the constitution.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 7 March 2020, 13:38

PopTart wrote:This is an unfortunate consequence of mainstream acceptance and even pro attitudes, counter culture has always been the cause of the youth of the day, it just so happens that Anti diversity, IS the counter culture now. :shrug:

We have perhaps allowed ourselves to become too po-faced in our pursuit of equality, too dogmatic and inflexible. Indeed, too much like the status quo.

It's all too easy to satirise, a lot of the time. That might be one of the reasons that the right is gaining ground: they're often funny, and can portray themselves as little Voltaires speaking truth to (cultural) power. Make Hate Fun. They struck on a winner with that one, I'm afraid.

But that sort of self criticism is liable to get me banned from the club. :P

PopTart wrote:I just as often hear conservatives complaining that universities are indoctrination plants for liberal tyrants.

It's true! I used to be a good Christian gay, now I'm a godless socialist queer who has strong opinions on the work of obscure Slovenian pop philosophers! :runaway:

PopTart wrote:But im abit off topic, sorry magic! :P

S'allrite. Just sign off with "also bi stuff" and you're good. :P

erti wrote:What bothers me is the blatant disregard of a civil debate on both sides of the spectrum. Not every white person is racist and not every minority is a criminal. If we can get past the name calling I think there might be a compromise that doesn’t go against the constitution.

See, a lot of people on the left lambast this view, but it's one that I somewhat hold myself. The common criticism of the "civility" argument is that it merely cloaks genuine problems and differences in pretty words, which ultimately serve to uphold the status quo and thus benefit the already powerful.

There's definitely something to this, but to think civility is solely a tool to uphold the status quo seems, to me, myopic. Civility can be read as a fancy word for "respect" a lot of the time. Respect entails listening to people whom you disagree with, hearing their story and trying to understand how they came to the conclusions they have arrived at. If people feel that they're being respected, I feel that they're often more receptive to hearing your story, and perhaps a dialogue can be established. Of course, some people are too far gone, and it's generally pointless to give them the respect they'll never give you, but we make a serious mistake when we fail to recognise that not every leftist is a Communist idealogue, and not every rightist is a fascist zealot. I like to engage with actual people, rather than characteurs.

This is enough to make me some kind of quasi-centrist in some comrade's eyes. Fair enough. I have my way in fighting for a more equal and egalitarian world, they have theirs.

Also, bi stuff.
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 7 March 2020, 14:15

PopTart wrote:It just happened to transpire, that a conversation began at work ( :shifty: ) in which the question was posed to the guys there "if you could reach it, would you blow yourself" and to my utter shock, the vast majority of the men, of varying ages, said no! That it would be too gay?!

Also, yeah, I almost defo would. It'd be a greatly impressive party trick. :P
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Magic J » 25 March 2020, 21:14

Here's a podcast from YQS about Brenda Howard: a now quite rarely remembered bisexual LGBT activist and one of the main organisers of the first Pride march in 1970.

https://yourqueerstory.com/podcast/brenda-howard/

There's about 9.30 mins of bants until they get into it. :P
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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Brenden » 28 March 2020, 22:40

Bi-erasure from the trans crowd. What do I call myself now? I'm not attracted to moongendered people!

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Re: Bi/Pan Thread

Unread postby Marmaduke » 28 March 2020, 22:49

What abusively coloured social media platforms are you using? Because it's putting up with things like this colour pallete that leads to you indavertantly finding yourself in conversation with people who assume you're interested in their self-expression.
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