Christianity and being gay

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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby PopTart » 29 April 2020, 10:44

poolerboy0077 wrote:
PopTart wrote:If you believe in a christian style God, it should be your relationship with God that should matter. Do you need a book, written by men two thousand years dead, or men, no different from you now, to tell you what your chosen deity wants of you? How to divine right from wrong?

Christians wouldn’t know what the faith even is if it weren’t for Bible. It seems selective to retain certain vague elements from it, like who Jesus is or what he did for humanity but discard the parts where it tells you how to live. At that point, just discard the entire thing and go with your gut on matters of ethics, epistemology and ontology.

I have to admit, thats generally been my experience aswell and I'd offer the same advice were anyone to ask.

Organised religions ultimately shift focus from the spiritual, towards veneration of their own institutions, traditions and doctrines, sometimes in complete contravention of the original ideals upon which they were founded. People end up worshipping the church and not the deity.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 29 April 2020, 12:06

Let’s not romanticize the beliefs themselves, either. It isn’t as if the Christian faith is solely corrupted by its institutions and in its purest form is some sort enlightened pathway to deep understanding.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby PopTart » 29 April 2020, 12:22

:lol: You'll get no arguement from me on that count.

Where we might disagree is that I do think faith, can have a quantifiable, if unpredictable, impact on human behaviour, that doesn't have to be negative. Faith can be a great comfort, it can inspire and it can lead to people putting aside ego just as much as it can be a salve for it.

Like most things, I should imagine, it depends on how one approaches the whole thing.

Or you can be a die hard athiest and have no faith whatsoever. That works aswell. :shrug:
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Magic J » 29 April 2020, 14:53

PopTart wrote:Organised religions ultimately shift focus from the spiritual, towards veneration of their own institutions, traditions and doctrines, sometimes in complete contravention of the original ideals upon which they were founded. People end up worshipping the church and not the deity.

Original ideals: 1) Stay united as one Group (world is scary, have each other's backs) 2) Don't talk to that other Group over in the other valley (they are scary and will take our stuff) 3) Make babies to propagate the Group (they shall grow up to protect the Group from the scary people) 4) Don't eat poisonous shellfish (you might die, and thus weaken the Group).

Might be being a bit flippant here. Possibly. :P
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Jryski » 29 April 2020, 16:44

Im just gonna put my favorite bible verse here. Ezekiel 23:20–21: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. xD The bible was obviously written by men but the language in this section makes me think that they were probably secretly one of us. :P
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Magic J » 29 April 2020, 17:13

Jryski wrote:Im just gonna put my favorite bible verse here. Ezekiel 23:20–21: There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. xD The bible was obviously written by men but the language in this section makes me think that they were probably secretly one of us. :P

I've dusted off my Bible. Hmm. Apparently the entirety of Ezekiel 23 is some kind of fevered snuff porno. Who knew?

Well, I imagine the Christians knew. The dirty dogs.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby ceez » 30 April 2020, 01:52

*sigh* This is something that I've been struggling with for years, I grew up in a Christian household and almost everyone I know is a devoted Christian so I've always felt trapped even thogh I do believe there is a god. I did a lot of research in the past on the issue and found out a lot that other Christians were getting wrong or twisting words around. Like I grew up being told that sodomites were gay people when in reality they were straight cultists that did actual sodomy, they had rods with lumps and rough edges to shove up another mans ass as a way to humiliate him.(this I learned in an ancient civilization course) And I still believe David was bisexual, I mean you can't read the story of David and Johnathan and tell me that's "brotherly love", not many brothers would grab the others thigh and go in for a kiss.

What I would really like to know is who is translating this stuff? How did a word meaning "soft clothes" go to "soft" to "effeminate" to "homosexual". And why was the word "eunuchs" taken out of the bible? I've come to the conclusion that I'm an idiot, a half wit, a dumb ass. Its the only reason I can come up with to explain why after all times I could have been with someone but didn't because I wanted to be a "good Christian boy" like my grandparents wanted. Why, after the all the years of depression, the near suicide attempts do I still go to church slowly chipping away at my sanity.

I thoght this church would be different because they talked about accepting everyone no matter what, gay or straight. Then after talking to a young man who just joined and received prayer the week before they found out he was gay and immediately kicked him out. So unless you're an idiot or into self loathing, then no you can't be gay and Christian.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Jryski » 30 April 2020, 02:59

I’m sorry that you’re so confused about what’s going on. I hope you get to live as a human being one day. :)
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby ShedShadow » 14 May 2020, 07:08

Took me a while to figure out all of this, but here I go.

I believe (I'm christian) Christianity is all about love and acceptance. I believe a lot of the christians have twisted and skewed the original beliefs to fit their agendas. The people that I feel skew the bible I will refer to as "they or them."

I try to love all even if you don't believe what I believe or even hate me. That I feel is the most christian you can get and there is nothing antigay about it.

Where the antigay comes from is the misconceptions about Sodom and Gomorrah. Which is about a horrible city that was completely selfish. The people try to gang rape two male angels. Yes this was homosexual, but gang rape doesn't have to have sexual desires in place which likely the townspeople didn't. Male rape can be used to show dominance.

Of course there isn't just one argument to this. They also will tell you. It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Which honestly a lot of things didn't exist when Adam and Eve were created. That doesn't mean God never meant for it. For example, Adam's likes and dislikes are not the same as many christians, but that doesn't mean God believes christians should have to like everything Adam likes.

Another thing they say is God intended marriage to be only male and female. First, he never really talked negatively or positively about homosexual marriage. However, he mentioned man and women, but it depends on how you view marriage.

If marriage was only about procreation then there would be no desire for gays to get married. Maybe to adopt they would. However, marriage is certainly not all about procreation. Many married people say they tried for kids and couldn't have any. So, they had to adopt. Some marriages don't even consider it. Also, some cultures believe marriage is about reuniting two families. Marriage is much more complicated than just procreation.

They also say, two dads and two moms are not good parents. However, some of them are single parents! Nothing wrong with being a single parent. I have seen awesome kids grow up without one parent. Obviously, I would recommend two though.

Additionally they quote Leviticus 20:13 and one other place in Leviticus, but those are in a group of laws we aren't suppose to follow anymore. Just be glad you don't because that list is kind of crazy.

They also quote Corinthians 6:9. However, I wouldn't trust that either since it includes a list that at some point or another I believe everyone has committed even if it was something really small. Additionally, read the verse after Corinthians 6:11. It basically goes on about nonetheless you can be saved and forgiven.

Paul talks about gays being unatural once, but that is based on the societal norms. I agree. You may say someone walking on their tip toes may be unnatural. So, once again I wouldn't take it too seriously.

There you have it. Why I believe being gay has nothing to do with being christian. However, I do believe being respectful, positive, and loving is the true goal for christians.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby MichaelH » 20 May 2020, 00:42

First, I like to assure everyone that God did create Steve.

Secondly, if any LGBT+ person wants to find a church who doesn't kick out LGBT+ people out, I recommend [url]gaychurch.org[/url] there's also some explanations already discussed
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Ander1969 » 23 May 2020, 01:44

As a Christian, I follow the teachings of Christ as told in the new testament. Jesus says nothing, neither for nor against homosexuality (but there is evidence in the Gnostic Gospels that Jesus may have practiced bisexuality). I also believe that if there is love, the Lord won't mind.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby lufia » 14 July 2020, 00:46

Though I myself do not believe in religion, I do enjoy studying it. It is fascinating to me. In the Bible, there are six verses traditionally believed to prohibit homosexuality. As with anything in the Bible, they are open to interpretation. I have read a paper written by a pastor explaining how none of those verses directly refer to homosexuality. Many of the more fundamentalist denominations tend to treat homosexuality as if it is the worst sin imaginable. I actually had a Southern Baptist preacher tell me that I would go to hell for being gay regardless of how I lived the rest of my life. The Bible says that God is infallible, and that he created all mankind. If God is infallible, then why would he create people that would automatically be doomed to hell, or set up to fail? I agree with that pastor, and believe those verses are misinterpreted by modern Christians.I think it is also important to take the Bible within a historical context, and look at it logically. At the time the Bible was being written and the religion of Christianity was in its infancy, the Christians were being heavily persecuted by the Romans. Homosexuality was common and widely accepted in Roman society (though they did persecute bottoms). When forming the tenets of the religion, the Christians chose to reject everything about Roman society, and separate themselves from the Romans as much as possible. Hence, homosexuality is forbidden. If you accept those verses as a true condemnation of homosexuality, then read them within the context of the rest of the Bible. There are over 80 verses in the Bible that say in one form or another that true Christians should love all men as they would love themselves. There are many more verses that speak of leaving judgement to God. Modern homophobic Christians tend to forget that part. If you accept the Christian beliefs as real, then the Bible says that we are to love the sinner, not the sin. The Bible says that we are all sinners, so God does not expect anyone to be perfect. He will judge you on the sum of your life and your actions, rather than on a single "sin". Live your life the way you believe a gay Christian should, be happy, and enjoy the time your God gave you on this planet. He did not put your here to be miserable, confused, and unhappy.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Magic J » 14 July 2020, 11:46

lufia wrote:Homosexuality was common and widely accepted in Roman society (though they did persecute bottoms).

Yeah, quite a different dynamic, pre-Christianisation. They seem to have seen it more as an active/passive role issue, the passive role being the less esteemed, generally only thought suitable for women, slaves, and adolescent males. Males who persisted in the "passive" role into adulthood weren't looked upon kindly, and seem to have been relegated to the fringes of society.

I remember reading somewhere that Julius Caesar was mocked for supposedly being the "passive" partner when he was dangerously close to full adulthood. So it was more of an issue of social roles, rather than an outright acceptance or condemnation sort of thing.

lufia wrote:When forming the tenets of the religion, the Christians chose to reject everything about Roman society, and separate themselves from the Romans as much as possible. Hence, homosexuality is forbidden.

That's interesting, could definitely be an element. I always thought that the prohibition against homosexuality was present in the older scripture, though?
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Valso » 14 July 2020, 13:49

Marmaduke wrote:One can be gay and Christian.

One should follow the rules of one’s chosen faith.

One can be christian, sure. But I don't understand HOW can one be christian considering there isn't a single religion that doesn't hate gays and doesn't order them to be murdered. Both christianity and islam hate and murder gays. Christianity had it in the old testament, islam is currently doing it.

I recreated this meme for other puproses (someone else created it first, I just made it readable) and now I highlighted the part about killing gays. So to me a gay christian is like lighting up a gigantic candle and asking the christians to kill him.

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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 15 July 2020, 21:36

Magic J wrote:Yeah, quite a different dynamic, pre-Christianisation. They seem to have seen it more as an active/passive role issue, the passive role being the less esteemed, generally only thought suitable for women, slaves, and adolescent males. Males who persisted in the "passive" role into adulthood weren't looked upon kindly, and seem to have been relegated to the fringes of society.


Video below is interesting it suggests that the thing Romans had against men acting like woman and being passive kind of continued with Christianity. Not in the sense that they accepted homosexuality but in the sense that men should behave like men and penetrate whilst women should behave like woman and be penetrated. Otherwise it was against nature or Gods divine plan or something.

Seems like medieval people didn't really have a concept of homosexuality until it was specifically referred to and denounced as heresy in the 12th century. According to the video they instead distinguished between sex that was procreative and sodomy sex that wasn't procreative. Any kind of sex that involved a man ejaculating anywhere other than in the vagina of a woman was sodomy and sinful. Not sure if that also applied to unmarried men and women but seems like only sex between a married man and women, only when the intent was procreation and only using the missionary position was permissible. Apparently sex between two woman wasn't viewed as sex at all because it didn't involve penetration.

I am no historian though so I could be well off the mark and the video could be completely inaccurate. I think this is an interesting subject though.

I've also learned recently that the slur 'faggot' originates from the term for a bundle of sticks used as fuel for a bonfire, because sometimes when they burned woman accused of witchcraft they would soak gay men in oil and use them as kindel for the fire. :(

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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 16 July 2020, 01:25

Valso wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:One can be gay and Christian.

One should follow the rules of one’s chosen faith.

One can be christian, sure. But I don't understand HOW can one be christian considering there isn't a single religion that doesn't hate gays and doesn't order them to be murdered. Both christianity and islam hate and murder gays. Christianity had it in the old testament, islam is currently doing it.

I recreated this meme for other puproses (someone else created it first, I just made it readable) and now I highlighted the part about killing gays. So to me a gay christian is like lighting up a gigantic candle and asking the christians to kill him.

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I think it’s important to note that the Bible prohibits gay sex between men, not being gay per se. The Bible essentially asks a gay male to live a life of celibacy for some inexplicable reason; contemporary Christians argue something about the importance of bodily union of the “complementary” sexes. Whatever. Marm’s point was that if you’re an adult and you persist in adhering to a belief system, you ought to follow its rules and take up your belief with the religion and church to which you belong. It’s a bit dismissive, especially since beliefs aren’t freely chosen, but assuming some amount of free will compels one to follow through with your faith. If you’re going to adhere to an archaic belief system be prepared to live in the past.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Valso » 16 July 2020, 07:45

I didn't say I disagreed, I just expressed my inunderstanding of how one can be both gay and religious when the former can not exist within the ranks of the latter and is being persecuted or even killed. If I have to give another example of what this looks like to me: imagine a Jew with a t-shirt praising Hitler's ideas for killing Jews. If you can imagine the controversy of that, you'll see why I can't even imagine a Christian gay.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Jryski » 16 July 2020, 15:41

I still think it’s a form of stockholm syndrome.
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PostThis post was deleted by Brenden on 18 July 2020, 14:36.
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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postby Ander1969 » 18 July 2020, 04:25

Where does Jesus teach that homosexuality is bad?
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