Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

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Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Willie » 12 June 2020, 02:08

Remember when?
Basically until the Stonewall resistance.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Eryx » 13 June 2020, 20:17

Yeah, except that black people were always able to marry, and interracial marriage came way before gay marriage. Plus adoption, inheritance, laws against oppression... all came before or were always there.

Well, I mean, the two are just not comparable. And I'd compare Stonewall to MLK and Malcolm X, not BLM.

(Also important to remind ourselves that the United States of America isn't the whole planet.)
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Derek » 13 June 2020, 21:14

Eryx wrote:(Also important to remind ourselves that the United States of America isn't the whole planet.)

Source?

In fairness, he's not wrong. Civil rights came before gay rights, but the timelines of both movements were very different. Civil rights were won both in war and in court, well ahead of public opinion swinging in favor. Gay rights became a national conversation almost overnight, public opinion changed in a single generation, and the legal victories were just a cherry on top. Gay people aren't economically stratified, we aren't segregated from the population that might have oppressed us, and there's generally a less sticky and fraught context to the whole thing. In America, I'd say it's now definitely easier to be gay than black overall, but it is like apples and oranges and I don't really see much benefit in the comparison.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 14 June 2020, 15:59

Derek wrote:In America, I'd say it's now definitely easier to be gay than black overall

You know this truth is low key pissing off every attention-seeking gay who always secretly wanted a dramatic coming out and feel like an oppressed minority. In other words, young white gays.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Magic J » 14 June 2020, 17:12

Derek wrote:Gay rights became a national conversation almost overnight, public opinion changed in a single generation, and the legal victories were just a cherry on top.

Pretty much the same here. Scotland was hella conservative in that regard right into the 90's and early 2000's. Of course, the basic trouble remains, it's just refocused onto another form of gender heresy. :P
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Willie » 26 June 2020, 02:47

Just saw PBS docut on American Experience "Stonewall UpUprising "
Scarry as hell!!!
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby ThatNomad » 26 June 2020, 02:54

I think the saddest thing about the intersection of Black rights and Gay rights is that in our own community, a community used to oppression and marginalization, we won't take a stand against the abject racism that exists within our community. Almost no one will stand up to the racist garbage with the profiles stating basically white only. Almost no one will stand up to the gay media/porn companies and tell them they will either change or fade into irrelevancy. And in regards to almost every public aspect of the LGBTQ community it is almost entirely whitewashed, nearly completely erasing and silencing the presence and voices of POC in the community.

So, while it's easier to be gay than to be black, it's also, simultaneously so much harder than either to be both. And we really need to work on solidarity and uplifting of those minority groups within our own community, and removing the racists that exist, who have been given a pass with the use of preference as an excuse.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Eryx » 27 June 2020, 20:50

Talk about yourself, the LGBT community in Brazil is absolutely invested in racial debate.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby ThatNomad » 27 June 2020, 21:06

Eryx wrote:Talk about yourself, the LGBT community in Brazil is absolutely invested in racial debate.


That is fantastic to hear! Thank you for giving me that information. I have only ever met one person from Brasil and he didn't really talk about stuff like that. But for most of the rest of the western world where I have friends the discrimination and marginalization of POC inside the LGBTQ community is rampant, and always hidden by the whiny cry "But it's just my preference. I don't find them attractive."

It shows a vapid, shallow viewpoint where only someone's physical attributes are even being considered and makes it quite obvious the person saying it feels that an entire community of people are basically unworthy of their attention based on the color of their skin. It's sickening.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Eryx » 27 June 2020, 21:12

I disagree that's the case for most of the Western world. That's a North American problem. And, in fact, it's only rampant in the United States. I believe people in Canada have a more progressive view of diversity and ethnicities, even if some of the segregation in the US spills into their society. Mexico has a different demographic, so it might not even be that relevant.

Europe sees black citizens and ethnicities completely differently than Americans. And I would argue that Latin America is also part of the Western world, where things may differ wildly. Argentineans barely have any black citizens, so it's seen as something exotic and desirable, but not fetishistic like that whole "BBC" culture in America. In Chile and Uruguay, it's similar. In Bolivia and Ecuador, most people are dark, so the discussion is different.

Thus, I believe most of the Western world is more advanced when it comes to ethnical debate than the United States. If we were to simplify the argument, I could point out that only in English, and not even that much in the United Kingdom and Australia, there isn't talk about "race" anymore. Homo sapiens sapiens does not have races.

Edit: I have to be fair though, that there are problematic things everywhere still. There are people here that will say on their profile that they aren't into black or Asian guys, and there is a lot of racism in Brazil and in Latin America. My only point is that in the Western world at large, LGBT movements and black movements are intertwined. The problem is more severe in the American society.
Last edited by Eryx on 27 June 2020, 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby ThatNomad » 27 June 2020, 21:14

I will stand corrected then, and disregard the opinions of those I have met who live in some of those areas (Such as Canada, the U.K., and a few other areas as well.).
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby René » 27 June 2020, 21:29

I have to say, though, it's a fact that most of the guys I'm attracted to have white skin, but I recognise that that's a product of lack of exposure to people who look different. I know I have the capacity to be attracted to people who look different, and it does happen occasionally. I would never write "no blacks/Asians" or "whites only" or anything like that, but I think when people do that, it's more often a result of ignorance than of actual racism. I don't think it's usually wilful discrimination.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Derek » 27 June 2020, 22:53

Eryx wrote:I disagree that's the case for most of the Western world. That's a North American problem. And, in fact, it's only rampant in the United States. I believe people in Canada have a more progressive view of diversity and ethnicities, even if some of the segregation in the US spills into their society. Mexico has a different demographic, so it might not even be that relevant.

I think the difference isn't in attitude but circumstance. There's a noxious xenophobic ideology in Canada just like in the US, but it takes on a different flavor in light of the country's history. Their relationship with the native population is, if anything, worse than ours, and their fixation on Muslim immigrants is just as paranoid and disproportionate as ours is on Mexican immigrants. When in comes to black people, Canada doesn't have a large population of them to begin with, and while slavery was legal there at one time, they were never a slave state the way the US was.

Like, imagine all the Australians right now shaking their head at how the US treats its own minority population. The specific issues are different but I'm not eager to let the rest of the "Western" world off the hook.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Eryx » 28 June 2020, 01:51

I agree with that perspective. I might have exceeded myself.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 28 June 2020, 06:02

Derek wrote:and their fixation on Muslim immigrants is just as paranoid and disproportionate as ours is on Mexican immigrants.

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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby swayinginthewind » 2 July 2020, 17:33

ThatNomad wrote:I think the saddest thing about the intersection of Black rights and Gay rights is that in our own community, a community used to oppression and marginalization, we won't take a stand against the abject racism that exists within our community. Almost no one will stand up to the racist garbage with the profiles stating basically white only. Almost no one will stand up to the gay media/porn companies and tell them they will either change or fade into irrelevancy. And in regards to almost every public aspect of the LGBTQ community it is almost entirely whitewashed, nearly completely erasing and silencing the presence and voices of POC in the community.

So, while it's easier to be gay than to be black, it's also, simultaneously so much harder than either to be both. And we really need to work on solidarity and uplifting of those minority groups within our own community, and removing the racists that exist, who have been given a pass with the use of preference as an excuse.


This conversation is important. As a POC, this resonates with me, because whether the problem be concentrated in the United States, or even just in Florida - it is a problem. As a Latin man within this community, I've seen how white men are at the helm of the hierarchy. They'll say they're into Latinos but for the most part it is white-passing Latinos, and if they show interest in the more "exotic" looking Latin men, it is almost a fetishization. You know when that is the case, admittedly not always, but the ignorance seeps through. "You have sexy Latin lips" or (insert any other stereotype). In other words, I'm not okay with being someone's token "Latin lover", when I'm way more complex than my ethnicity. I shouldn't have to fit into a mold, to feel attractive. There are men, as stated before who make an active effort to isolate "only" other white men, or other Latin men, etc, and I would argue it has all to do with a deep-rooted racial-biased. If you live in a country where the demographic is limited, by all means, you have no choice (though it isn't a pass). But, when you live in a melting-pot of cultures, ethnicities, and races - it's a clear decision being made. It's like buying a pack of M&M's and rather than just eating what comes out of the pouch, you pour them all out, separate them by color, and choose to only eat primary colors.

When I come across group pictures or profiles of gay men with not one POC -in countries, states, cities where I know there is abundance in diversity- it is unsettling. We fight for inclusivity, but exclude demographics within the minority group we already are. Be as it may, if we are going to preach unity and pride, it should be full-scope. We should be proud of ALL the colors, shapes, sizes, ages within our community.

Again, I'm speaking from personal experience in my local community, but I wouldn't put it past any country in either hemisphere to have this problem - regardless of where it is on the scale. For the ones in those countries who are the few experiencing it, it's important they know that the conversation is taking place. I can't even imagine what the experience for our black members might be, or even Asians, as they too face significant racism and discrimination. I can only empathize with them, because it is difficult for them to get the recognition and love they deserve. I can only hope that this problem finds solution, not just in a handful of countries, not just in America, but worldwide. As a worldwide community with influence and visibility that continues to grow, we can definitely lend a supporting hand to the BLM, be it from whatever part of the world it comes. It has been a beautiful thing to witness so far.

I hope all of that made sense, I've been needing to vent this frustration for a while. :runaway:
Last edited by swayinginthewind on 2 July 2020, 19:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby ThatNomad » 2 July 2020, 18:38

It made perfect sense, my dude. Absolutely perfect sense. You just summed up so much of what I was trying to say above even better than I could ever have done so. Thank you for giving us your perspective as well. As a Cuban man, with a boyfriend who is Black I have been sensitive to this for a long time, but most people in the LGBT community simply refuse to see it as an issue. They either fetishize, or continue to claim it's just a preference, instead of owning up to the fact that they are racially biased, and or actually flat out racist.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 3 July 2020, 21:29

Nash Grier is now apparently woke as well. Christ.

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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby Derek » 3 July 2020, 22:12

Don't believe it. Online influencers are purely pathological beings.
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Re: Gay oppression was where bl@ck oppression is now

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 4 July 2020, 06:03

Derek wrote:Don't believe it. Online influencers are purely pathological beings.

People can change, Derek. Look at me. I used to only like teens and now I’ve grown to like 21-year-olds. People can evolve if you let them.
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