My coming out story back in the 80s ...

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Re: My coming out story back in the 80s ...

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 13 November 2021, 15:00

Wow, that sounds so reprehensible. :( It is exponentially worse than what i thought you were originally talking about. I hope you are able to make that video. I imagine it won't be easy to make that video without feeling angry it as I cannot fathom much lower in depravity than abusing the dying.
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Re: My coming out story back in the 80s ...

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 13 November 2021, 16:37

I did say I would further explain myself about my own more generic experiences with change ministries.

First of all I would state that wanting to change one's orientation for the benefit of others (be it family, friends, religious affiliation, etc) is doomed to failure. I find that true for more than just sexuality. For example, if one wants to loose weight, hopefully that individual is doing it for themselves, and not to please others...

Anyway, for myself, I had gotten to the point where I didn't want to have homoerotic feelings for any man (gay/bi/str8), not because I had shame for myself, but because my own experiences up to that time had led me to believe that true love would never be returned by any male to any level of satisfaction for myself. Suffice it to say I had a 3 pronged approach:

a) See if I could get it up for a woman
b) Try change groups.
c) See if I could sire children (get my fertility checked)

Finally, if I passed on all 3 things, go find a woman and settle down.

Again, it may seem crazy, but my desire for men (emotionally, mentally, an physically) had been my Achilles' heel, and I was tired of being hurt. I had plenty of "sex", but love had been something that rejected me so many times.

Anyway, for step 1. I passed. It was nothing spectacular, but nevertheless I passed.

For step 2, I tried a couple of groups. The first group was in a more affluent suburb of the near by really BIG city. I only went one time, but it seemed rather a farce. The leader of the group claimed to be a life long straight man who was called to help men overcome homosexuality. The reason I only went once to put it bluntly was that he was as gay as the pope was Catholic. During the mingling phase of the meeting, he took the opportunity to complement me on my hair and stroke it. Now I wear my hair just to below the ear. It isn't about being effeminate, but rather to cover a birth defect. I wasn't upset by what he did, but I knew he was the one struggling more than me. Again, he didn't claim to be "ex" gay. He claimed to be str8 all along. I hope he found peace with his delusion.

Now the other group was in the heart of that same BIG city. This one was a problem for me as the leader was very attractive to me -- handsome face, and VERY hairy. I had to focus on the negative in order not to think about my attraction. He would talk about loving to "shop", so I had to focus on that effeminate trait to hold back my attraction. Anyway, he would keep talking about his best friend who was also a former practicing homosexual, and how their love was pure like David and Johnathan from the Old Testament. The meetings were fine and I went several times. Then suddenly the group was disbanded. Now, about a year later I ran into that handsome man at a cruise park in my town (college town). He claimed he was just there to read and reclaim the park for a "budding" heterosexual such as himself. He seemed so cocky and sure of himself and his new found sexuality. He wanted to eat so I took him to a restaurant. He would ogle the waitress. She wasn't homely, but neither was she stunning beautiful. I think he was overdoing it to impress me. I discovered that why the group disbanded was because his "Johnathan" broke down one day and told him he was in love with him. He couldn't deal with it, so he turned his back on his friend, and ended the group.

He needed a place to stay, so I let him stay in my spare bedroom. At the time, my mother and grandmother were visiting. He asked if I could get them to do his laundry. I ignored such as sexist comment, and did his laundry myself. He left the next day, and I never ran into him again. Though as I said he was physically a very attractive man, he had some deep seated issues about being gay to the point he would rather act like a stereotype sexist str8 man than just be himself. I think under his rudeness there could have been a really nice guy, but I never got to see it in his brazen attempt to be "normal". To be honest, past my own attraction to him, I felt sadness for him. I hope that both him and his "Johnathan" (that I never met), found some inner peace...

Anyway, the 3rd step (checking my fertility), was an abysmal failure. You are supposed to have millions of motile sperm in a healthy man's semen. Mine were measured in the 10's -- yes 10's. :( I never was injured in the groin, and I never had the mumps, etc. I simply was VERY infertile. I had all the tests - including a bi-lateral testicle biopsy. There is no conclusive reason, but I just don't create much sperm. I didn't have low testosterone levels, nor did I have blockage in any tubes. Now one could say that just means I could adopt. However, I had my reasons for wanting to sire children. I don't have designer genes by any stretch of the imagination, but I had been told by my dad's side that the reason he was a bad father and the reason we had such a bad relationship was in his genes for fathers/sons not to like each other. (My dad despised his own father.) I also had mental illness on my mother's side. (I'm not convinced that my dad was completely sane.) So here I was gay, had a birth defect (not genetic), and infertile.
I felt like I had 3 strikes against me, thus I was so angry. (At that point, though I had much pain from failed gay relationships, I lost any desire to even try to be straight.)

I had wanted to prove that I could sire children (hopefully at least one of them a son), and prove that there was nothing wrong with my genes, if my son turned out screwed up or I was a lousy father it was because of the DECISIONS I made, not our family genes. Anyway, my greatest sadness and defeat in life was that siring children.)

So that is my story about my experiences with change ministries...

I should share one more thing during this time.... Before I got my final test results (the testicle biopsy results, I went to church to pray. I lit a candle, and was on my knees prayed the the biopsy results would somehow show that I was fertile, that perhaps it was something treatable. I was trying to negotiate with God that I would never get involved with men again if I could just sire my own children..

Anyway, while I was praying an unattractive man nervously came up to me and knelt beside me. He wanted to thank me for having sex with him. At first I didn't recognize him and so I was shocked, but then I finally did recognize him. I was so ashamed. :( All my attempts to go str8 were about basically distancing myself from men since I had been hurt so much by them. One of those hurts was when a guy I cared about suddenly took a trip to Mexico with another "fuck buddy". So in my anger and despair I had self-medicated by going to the cruise spot on the university campus to just get off. In the darkness, I had ran into this guy, sitting all alone by himself under a tree. There was no exchange of even pleasantries, I just used him to get myself off.

Now here I was praying to God for my fertility so that I could have a son to love because I hadn't been love by men, while this man (one of God's creation -- a son of his creation) was thanking me for taking his virginity. He told me no man had ever had sex with him because he was so ugly (in his mind). He had meant nothing to me except a vessel to take out my anger and of course get off. Where was my love for this human being while I bitched about other men not loving me? I was being such a hypocrite. While I didn't get my test results for a few more days, the irony of that church incident was something I would never forget.

I wish I could say it made me turn around my life that night. Unfortunately, it didn't for a very long time. I never ran into that man again. I just wished his first time had been with someone who really cared for him as I had felt nothing for him. I hope he found someone eventually who did love him. Everybody deserves to be loved.

It it is such true stories in my life that are why I am a believer. I do not buy into any dogma, but I do believe that there was some higher purpose that put into motion the fact that this man being there when I was at my darkest hour. Me begging God to let me be able to make a son to love and be love, when in fact here was on of God's "sons" who felt appreciated by me when I know in my heart, I had used him. I feel that the God of my understanding was trying to teach me a lesson even if I didn't take true heed of that lesson until much later.

I will always bemoan the fact that I couldn't sire children. In my absolute ideal world, two men in love would be able to create life. There are many times I cup my partners balls during the night. It is not because I have some weird fetish, but rather I appreciate the fact that he was able and did procreate. I don't have any desire to escape men anymore, because I finally did find someone who could return the love that I yearned all my life for. To me sexuality (gay or str8 or bi) is useless unless it has some purpose other than just getting off. I was meant to bond with another person, in my case my wonderful guy.
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Re: My coming out story back in the 80s ...

Unread postby Peter123777 » 15 November 2021, 09:25

NobodySpecial wrote:I did say I would further explain myself about my own more generic experiences with change ministries.

First of all I would state that wanting to change one's orientation for the benefit of others (be it family, friends, religious affiliation, etc) is doomed to failure. I find that true for more than just sexuality. For example, if one wants to loose weight, hopefully that individual is doing it for themselves, and not to please others...

Anyway, for myself, I had gotten to the point where I didn't want to have homoerotic feelings for any man (gay/bi/str8), not because I had shame for myself, but because my own experiences up to that time had led me to believe that true love would never be returned by any male to any level of satisfaction for myself. Suffice it to say I had a 3 pronged approach:

a) See if I could get it up for a woman
b) Try change groups.
c) See if I could sire children (get my fertility checked)

Finally, if I passed on all 3 things, go find a woman and settle down.

Again, it may seem crazy, but my desire for men (emotionally, mentally, an physically) had been my Achilles' heel, and I was tired of being hurt. I had plenty of "sex", but love had been something that rejected me so many times.

Anyway, for step 1. I passed. It was nothing spectacular, but nevertheless I passed.

For step 2, I tried a couple of groups. The first group was in a more affluent suburb of the near by really BIG city. I only went one time, but it seemed rather a farce. The leader of the group claimed to be a life long straight man who was called to help men overcome homosexuality. The reason I only went once to put it bluntly was that he was as gay as the pope was Catholic. During the mingling phase of the meeting, he took the opportunity to complement me on my hair and stroke it. Now I wear my hair just to below the ear. It isn't about being effeminate, but rather to cover a birth defect. I wasn't upset by what he did, but I knew he was the one struggling more than me. Again, he didn't claim to be "ex" gay. He claimed to be str8 all along. I hope he found peace with his delusion.

Now the other group was in the heart of that same BIG city. This one was a problem for me as the leader was very attractive to me -- handsome face, and VERY hairy. I had to focus on the negative in order not to think about my attraction. He would talk about loving to "shop", so I had to focus on that effeminate trait to hold back my attraction. Anyway, he would keep talking about his best friend who was also a former practicing homosexual, and how their love was pure like David and Johnathan from the Old Testament. The meetings were fine and I went several times. Then suddenly the group was disbanded. Now, about a year later I ran into that handsome man at a cruise park in my town (college town). He claimed he was just there to read and reclaim the park for a "budding" heterosexual such as himself. He seemed so cocky and sure of himself and his new found sexuality. He wanted to eat so I took him to a restaurant. He would ogle the waitress. She wasn't homely, but neither was she stunning beautiful. I think he was overdoing it to impress me. I discovered that why the group disbanded was because his "Johnathan" broke down one day and told him he was in love with him. He couldn't deal with it, so he turned his back on his friend, and ended the group.

He needed a place to stay, so I let him stay in my spare bedroom. At the time, my mother and grandmother were visiting. He asked if I could get them to do his laundry. I ignored such as sexist comment, and did his laundry myself. He left the next day, and I never ran into him again. Though as I said he was physically a very attractive man, he had some deep seated issues about being gay to the point he would rather act like a stereotype sexist str8 man than just be himself. I think under his rudeness there could have been a really nice guy, but I never got to see it in his brazen attempt to be "normal". To be honest, past my own attraction to him, I felt sadness for him. I hope that both him and his "Johnathan" (that I never met), found some inner peace...

Anyway, the 3rd step (checking my fertility), was an abysmal failure. You are supposed to have millions of motile sperm in a healthy man's semen. Mine were measured in the 10's -- yes 10's. :( I never was injured in the groin, and I never had the mumps, etc. I simply was VERY infertile. I had all the tests - including a bi-lateral testicle biopsy. There is no conclusive reason, but I just don't create much sperm. I didn't have low testosterone levels, nor did I have blockage in any tubes. Now one could say that just means I could adopt. However, I had my reasons for wanting to sire children. I don't have designer genes by any stretch of the imagination, but I had been told by my dad's side that the reason he was a bad father and the reason we had such a bad relationship was in his genes for fathers/sons not to like each other. (My dad despised his own father.) I also had mental illness on my mother's side. (I'm not convinced that my dad was completely sane.) So here I was gay, had a birth defect (not genetic), and infertile.
I felt like I had 3 strikes against me, thus I was so angry. (At that point, though I had much pain from failed gay relationships, I lost any desire to even try to be straight.)

I had wanted to prove that I could sire children (hopefully at least one of them a son), and prove that there was nothing wrong with my genes, if my son turned out screwed up or I was a lousy father it was because of the DECISIONS I made, not our family genes. Anyway, my greatest sadness and defeat in life was that siring children.)

So that is my story about my experiences with change ministries...

I should share one more thing during this time.... Before I got my final test results (the testicle biopsy results, I went to church to pray. I lit a candle, and was on my knees prayed the the biopsy results would somehow show that I was fertile, that perhaps it was something treatable. I was trying to negotiate with God that I would never get involved with men again if I could just sire my own children..

Anyway, while I was praying an unattractive man nervously came up to me and knelt beside me. He wanted to thank me for having sex with him. At first I didn't recognize him and so I was shocked, but then I finally did recognize him. I was so ashamed. :( All my attempts to go str8 were about basically distancing myself from men since I had been hurt so much by them. One of those hurts was when a guy I cared about suddenly took a trip to Mexico with another "fuck buddy". So in my anger and despair I had self-medicated by going to the cruise spot on the university campus to just get off. In the darkness, I had ran into this guy, sitting all alone by himself under a tree. There was no exchange of even pleasantries, I just used him to get myself off.

Now here I was praying to God for my fertility so that I could have a son to love because I hadn't been love by men, while this man (one of God's creation -- a son of his creation) was thanking me for taking his virginity. He told me no man had ever had sex with him because he was so ugly (in his mind). He had meant nothing to me except a vessel to take out my anger and of course get off. Where was my love for this human being while I bitched about other men not loving me? I was being such a hypocrite. While I didn't get my test results for a few more days, the irony of that church incident was something I would never forget.

I wish I could say it made me turn around my life that night. Unfortunately, it didn't for a very long time. I never ran into that man again. I just wished his first time had been with someone who really cared for him as I had felt nothing for him. I hope he found someone eventually who did love him. Everybody deserves to be loved.

It it is such true stories in my life that are why I am a believer. I do not buy into any dogma, but I do believe that there was some higher purpose that put into motion the fact that this man being there when I was at my darkest hour. Me begging God to let me be able to make a son to love and be love, when in fact here was on of God's "sons" who felt appreciated by me when I know in my heart, I had used him. I feel that the God of my understanding was trying to teach me a lesson even if I didn't take true heed of that lesson until much later.

I will always bemoan the fact that I couldn't sire children. In my absolute ideal world, two men in love would be able to create life. There are many times I cup my partners balls during the night. It is not because I have some weird fetish, but rather I appreciate the fact that he was able and did procreate. I don't have any desire to escape men anymore, because I finally did find someone who could return the love that I yearned all my life for. To me sexuality (gay or str8 or bi) is useless unless it has some purpose other than just getting off. I was meant to bond with another person, in my case my wonderful guy.


That's some very interesting story. Life is taking us through many paths, hardships and experiences for us to grow and develop.
You said you've passed "step 1" (See if I could get it up for a woman). How was that, like had you had sex with a woman? do you consider yourself bisexual?
What were the results of the fertility test? did you found to be fertile eventually? do you plan on having children?
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Re: My coming out story back in the 80s ...

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 15 November 2021, 18:46

Peter123777 wrote:That's some very interesting story. Life is taking us through many paths, hardships and experiences for us to grow and develop.
You said you've passed "step 1" (See if I could get it up for a woman). How was that, like had you had sex with a woman? do you consider yourself bisexual?
What were the results of the fertility test? did you found to be fertile eventually? do you plan on having children?


I don't like labels as they are short cuts to getting to know someone. As to the label "bi" I think it's meaning has been hijacked to where it is useless. On another board it has gotten to mean "love/crave cock, but not attracted to men physically or emotionally". My understanding of bi was that an individual was capable of desiring both genders both sexually and emotionally. Now I guess that meaning has moved over to the label pansexual. I'm just too old to keep up with the alphabet soup of labels which to me means labels are useless. Better to really get to know the individual than to just ask for his/her labels and then make judgements on the individual based on stereotype of that label.

My personal take on the "love cock, but not men's bodies or hearts" is nothing more than a chosen personality flaw. Now granted plenty of men can be real unlovable jerks, but NOT all. Likewise, not all of those men who ARE lovable have to be feminized to be loving.

Sure we are all capable of sex without any care for the individual, but I could not fathom that kind of lifestyle. In my single days, sure I had lots of sex. When I had partners that I became regular with one of two things happened: a) There was nothing connecting us other than sex, and we eventually drifted apart. b) There was something besides the sexual connected, and over time I couldn't help but feel something for them.

So I didn't some with an engagement ring that I would pass out to every man I wanted to have sex with before I would have sex with them. Still on the other hand, I just could never sustain that "sex only" over time. Sex is just to powerful an experience to lower it to the level of something like just a tennis partner.

It perverts one's humanity in my books to long term separate emotions of sex from the craving for sex.

We ALL have personality flaws, so I'm not trying to single out someone as "evil" because they could never care for another man. I just couldn't fathom that being natural in multiple sexual encounters. In my case, I don't really care for cock at all. I'm much more of an ass man. However, I love my partner's cock. Why? Because his cock means a lot to him, and he means everything to me.

Perhaps another reason I cannot fathom guy sex over a period of time without any emotions is that even at my age I have such a high sex drive. I cannot act on it now with my ED, but the drive is still so strong. I could always help curve that strong drive by being close to that man such as 8 hours of sleep next to a man. I would always love having my cock rest in the crack of his behind and my arm around his hairy chest and belly and my belly hugging his back. Now with a guy who only wants to have m2m sex maybe once a week and then wants to leave as soon as the sex is over..., that always seemed to me that it must be due to low-T or simply a low sex drive. Sex doesn't in with me just because you reached orgasm.

Note, I do believe that bisexuality exists (as I originally understood the term.) I do not believe as some gays do that any amount of m2m desire means that you must be a closet gay in denial.

I do think that at some basic level we all have a bit of bisexuality in us. However, it is rarely a 50/50 split. I could have had a relationship with a woman. However, the problem is that my desire for men is so much more stronger. I don't want to promote heterosexuality as normal and homosexual desire as abnormal. Rather in MY specific case, I think that part of the emotional need to connect more with a man has to do with so many problems with my relationships with men. I always found it hard to bond with men. Which made me want it that much more.

As to fertility, I guess you didn't understand what I wrote, I am infertile. Fertile men produce millions of healthy sperm. Mine was under 10, and that was back in my 20's. Biopsies on my testicles simply showed that I do not produce much. I suppose if there was technology to directly inject ONE sperm into an egg, I could be a parent. However, by the time I spent that much time and money, assuming it worked, I wouldn't have any funds to take care of such a child financially. If my sperm production was that low in my 20's, it isn't going to be any better now in my 60's.
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Re: My coming out story back in the 80s ...

Unread postby stevie1400 » 26 November 2021, 22:56

Hello Jack. I've been watching some more of your videos, and they have been very interesting. Its amazing how homosexuality is generally accepted these days compared to a few decades ago.

On a lighter note - You remind me of my old biology teacher Mr Clay. You both look so alike you could almost be related. There was a rumour that he was gay but I never found out for sure.
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