Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby SteveIsNotMe » 27 June 2019, 13:19

Bible wise, Roman epistle was written by St. Paul. Epistles are quite different than the gospels. Gospels are the narrative of Jesus teaching. Epistles were written by the apostle.

Bible is an anthology of few approved books/letters (Back in the past, multiple edition/version of gospel exists). From Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant, LDS, they have their own anthology of bible. Even each have multiple translations.

Bible like any other religion scriptures were written by human, treated as sacred as a product of personality cults. If these sacred scriptures were treated as just like an anthology of novels; it's just like an ordinary books.

If people quote bible just to affirm their argument: John 7:53–8:11. :shrug:

Religion is like a dick. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but you might not want to whip it out in public and start waving it around and shove it down in anyone's throat. :cool:
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 June 2019, 15:19

Have any of you religious nutters ever made bread with poop?

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)

You should post a YouTube tutorial on here to teach us all how to bake one!
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Brenden » 27 June 2019, 16:12

Bread baked with poop, as the fuel.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Jryski » 27 June 2019, 17:48

I would prefer not to go back to the bible. I grew up with it and it did quite a number on me. I still feel dirty and wrong when I'm with a guy to this day. Even when I was tricked into thinking I could be normal if I pursued God full force I never experienced anything holy or divine like other people claimed to have had. Its such a destructive and toxic community and belief system. The bible is also deeply flawed. For some being thats supposedly so perfect they sure conjured up a really shitty book. If you look at the psychology of the bible, it becomes super obvious that the book was written by men with personal motives. Its like a book of ancient propaganda.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby PopTart » 27 June 2019, 18:24

I get why some people might want to try to reconcile their sexuality, with the faith system into which they were raised. Some gay people really do believe in a Christian God, or even an Islamic one.

I just dont see how one can reconcile the two, without deciding to define your faith on your own terms, pick and choosing those aspects of the faith that ring true and dismissing the ones that dont and at that point, while you can be Christian or Islamic, you cant rightly be catholic, say or protestant, or Sunnis or Shia, because those theological schools outright ban homosexuality and declare its practice or promotion, to be anathema.

I tend to feel gay men and women, while being able to be whatever religion they choose, are likely to find greater spiritual satisfaction and growth, via their own personal beliefs and the establishment of a personal relationship with their God, rather than seek to shoe horn themselves into ready present, organised religions that consider them sinful or evil.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Dextroque » 27 June 2019, 20:12

Jesus never spoke about gay people.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 June 2019, 21:25

Dextroque wrote:Jesus never spoke about gay people.

Why? Was he in the closet?
Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Softheart » 29 June 2019, 18:29

There are also valuable lessons about futility in the bible.

There is no point in wasting precious time worrying about what the bible thinks of you. The bible is collection of stories passed down though the ages, heavy on the metaphors. You are reading stuff from the middle ages. Like any society cohesion is part of survival, and people who don't conform stand out. Many cultures have found a way to deal with it, Christian cultures for the most part have not.
All I have to add is don't waste your time. You may as well be barking at the moon and be glad lynching of gays has gone out of style.

Heck, look what Hollywood has done for you. Once gays were portrayed in obnoxious stereotypes, where as now they are cast as normal people who happen to be gay. That is progress. Swing an ax a religion is not.

As they teach you in philosophy, "you cannot change your fellow man, you can only change yourself." Take that advice, and live a life without a chip on your shoulder because someone doesn't like you or your lifestyle.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Eryx » 1 July 2019, 15:00

Love your comment, Softheart!
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Yeauxleaux » 3 July 2019, 00:13

I used to be vehemently anti-religion, a hardcore atheist. I am still very anti-religion in ways, especially as it pertains to religion trying to creep its way into politics. However I don't completely dismiss it altogether these days.

I think a lot of the mythical dogma and fake performances of pseudo-mortality (prevalent in all Abrahamic religions, but especially Islam more than any other these days) can die quite frankly. That said, I'm not convinced there's nothing out there divine, bigger than us and unexplainable. I've had some very personal life experiences that have made me question things, and I do actually believe there's power in prayer and speaking things into existence.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby ShutUpAndBeHappy » 6 July 2019, 18:36

Koftruecross wrote:mxguy01..... Speaking of sacraments. The Catholic Church is one of the few that runs 360 degrees the full spectrum politically. On the extreme left there is The Catholic Worker and PAX Christie and then on the extreme right there is EWTN (a religious subsidiary of FOX News) and The Catholic League..
Then there is the wiredest, strangest.. breakaway independent Catholic Church that celebrates THE DARK MASS. (Not the satanic black mass but nearly as malevolent)
They belong in Ripley's Believe it or Not.. ..And every year for them is 1962...even though most of them were born after 1962...They are so far out there that they are not even part of the above mentioned circle.. I guess if 1962 was your favorite year this would be the church for you.. They are by far the most extreme homophobic. Fortunately their numbers are small.


"Dark mass church"? Are you talking about sedevacantists? Or the SSPX or FSSP churches that still do the pre-1962 mass? Tridentine Roman Catholicism is actually really lovely - pretty hymns, shiny vestments, and who doesn't love Latin?

1962 was the year Vatican II took place. I'm not sure what groups you're talking about, do you have any links?
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby ShutUpAndBeHappy » 6 July 2019, 18:46

There truly is no way to reconcile homosexuality as it is known today with the Christian scriptures. Different groups have different sets of what they consider the canonical Bible - OP, I assume you're a Protestant?

In the ancient Church, faith was not informed by the Bible alone. There also existed what Eastern Christianity calls "Holy Tradition", similar to the Roman term "Magisterium". Basically, deeply held beliefs that are used to interpret the scriptures. It was the abandonment of these that made Protestants, Protestant. The traditional culture of the Christian movement always condemned homosexuality and understood marriage as only between one man and one woman. Unless you're Protestant there's really no way around this. I grew up Orthodox Christian, I tried to unravel the Church's positions for years. It's just not possible.

Christianity is one of many belief systems that have existed. I think it has as much a chance of being the truth as any other religion. Rather than reconciling passages of ancient books from foreign cultures with vastly different lifestyles with your own experience, why not ask yourself why these books matter to you? Do you seek the validation of a community? Do you believe conformity with the Bible is a direct reflection of your integrity? If it turned out the Bible really was against two men having sex, would you really let that stop you?
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 7 July 2019, 05:58

PopTart wrote:I get why some people might want to try to reconcile their sexuality, with the faith system into which they were raised. Some gay people really do believe in a Christian God, or even an Islamic one.

I just dont see how one can reconcile the two, without deciding to define your faith on your own terms, pick and choosing those aspects of the faith that ring true and dismissing the ones that dont and at that point, while you can be Christian or Islamic, you cant rightly be catholic, say or protestant, or Sunnis or Shia, because those theological schools outright ban homosexuality and declare its practice or promotion, to be anathema.

I tend to feel gay men and women, while being able to be whatever religion they choose, are likely to find greater spiritual satisfaction and growth, via their own personal beliefs and the establishment of a personal relationship with their God, rather than seek to shoe horn themselves into ready present, organised religions that consider them sinful or evil.


Don't you think most rational adults pick their world view on their own terms -- regardless of being gay or str8, etc?

Whenever we are talking about any human organization with rules and regulations -- be it religion, government, or something as simple as societal norms, do we all just tow the line? Sure some might work to change the rules , but how many simply an institution because they don't identify with 100% of them?

I think too many people are so hung up on a fundamentalist approach to life when it comes to human organizations. I just don't see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water, just because the bath water is so very dirty. Yes many religions condemn homosexuality. So did many governments and other institutions. Yet homosexuals continued. Keep in mind that most people have their biases regardless of religion, nationality, etc. I know atheists who find homosexuality disgusting.

Lack of acceptance isn't about ancient text, it is about some people being so uncomfortable about a topic that they will lean on whatever subject matter will justify their feelings -- be it ancient text, "natural law", or whatever.

So I simply do what I want to do, worship where I want to, and simply ignore those that I don't agree with.
Why would I want to ingest something that doesn't agree with me? Note that I do not give money to any body or institution that I don't agree with. Since that is most institutions, it isn't something for me to worry about.

As to being considered sinful or evil, did you ever notice that many other things could be put in the same category: divorce, smoking, tattoos, piercings, gluttony, greed, etc; yet that is never brought up much? Once something becomes too common among society, then condemnation seems to go away. Homosexuality rates in the population tends to stay constant, so it is easy to keep us as scapegoats.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Dextroque » 7 July 2019, 10:47

NobodySpecial wrote:Keep in mind that most people have their biases regardless of religion, nationality, etc. I know atheists who find homosexuality disgusting.


And all those homosexuals who find homosexuality disgusting :noes: :blargh: :runaway:
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Yeauxleaux » 7 July 2019, 19:43

NobodySpecial wrote:Keep in mind that most people have their biases regardless of religion, nationality, etc. I know atheists who find homosexuality disgusting.

Lack of acceptance isn't about ancient text, it is about some people being so uncomfortable about a topic that they will lean on whatever subject matter will justify their feelings -- be it ancient text, "natural law", or whatever.
I do agree with this. I've said this before, but I think the root of "homophobia" and anti-gay bias is the perception that gay people are abandoning all their responsibilities. This is especially with how gay men are seen.

It can be on a very conscious or a subconscious level, but it's a feeling that gay men in particular are selfish, fucked up men. In the eyes of these people, we're men who neglect our patriarchal responsibilities to be providers and protectors of women and children. I notice a lot of conservatives who aren't so open-minded about homosexuality, they really seem to have the most problem with gay men in particular. Look at who the Westboro Baptist Church attack first (and it's mostly the women in that group who lead the pack and shout the loudest btw, quite telling). I'm sure they have a problem with lesbians too, let's make no mistake about it, but their primary target is very much so gay men, and that is how it pretty much always is. Homophobes are much quicker to get in our faces, get abusive and get violent with us than they are with lesbians.

Transwomen also get the same treatment, magnified. This isn't "transmisogyny" and sexism against transwomen because they're seen as women, it's the opposite, it's "omg that's a MAN! Look!"... "look at this fucked-up MAN who cut off his dick so he didn't have to go to war.". Stuff like that.

You are a failure as a man, in the eyes of these people, and yes that's a big problem for them.

There is also the fear of the "predatory" gay men who will try to "recruit" you or your impressionable young sons. That's another big undercurrent that drives anti-gay male sentinment in particular. We don't wanna "catch the gay", so it's best we hammer down any man we suspect might have those tendencies.

Religion has certainly amplified the issue. I think we can all agree that any society dominated by any politicised Abrahamic religion (Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc) is going to be one of the shittiest environments for gay people. However even in other societies pre-dating this religion, or in Asian societies that never had them, the reaction to homosexuality is ambivalent at best. Religion has merely taken these biases and politicised them to an extreme degree, enforcing them as laws, mandating an active head-hunting culture against gay people, but it didn't invent anti-gay sentiment.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Jzone » 7 July 2019, 21:04

NobodySpecial wrote:Don't you think most rational adults pick their world view on their own terms -- regardless of being gay or str8, etc?

No. I think most people don't "pick their world view" at all (and no one is near 100% rational). For most people, their world view is a result of a combination of family, friends, community, culture, education, plus some random factors. Probably only a small percentage of people ever give it much conscious thought, let alone rational scrutiny. If most adults were purely (or mostly) rational, we would live in a very different world.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Eryx » 8 July 2019, 04:38

My boyfriend came to me with the joke that I have to respect Christians' points of view. I don't. Historically, they trampled over those who disagreed with them rather than arguing. I have no obligation to give them the respect they didn't give to others in numerous times. And the evangelicals in my country are trying to bring the Bible into the Constitution, they're trying to take over our Congress. I don't owe them anything. Respect is fucking earned.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 8 July 2019, 05:55

Was he really joking, though?
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Eryx » 8 July 2019, 06:01

No, I was being sarcastic. He's actually that gay Christian. I love him, but he's flawed. :(
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 8 July 2019, 08:45

Jzone wrote:
NobodySpecial wrote:Don't you think most rational adults pick their world view on their own terms -- regardless of being gay or str8, etc?

No. I think most people don't "pick their world view" at all (and no one is near 100% rational). For most people, their world view is a result of a combination of family, friends, community, culture, education, plus some random factors. Probably only a small percentage of people ever give it much conscious thought, let alone rational scrutiny. If most adults were purely (or mostly) rational, we would live in a very different world.


The fact that you see someones world view as a combination of factors means that some picking is going on. We don't just inherit a world view as is there is always adjustments made as one gets older. That is why plenty of young homosexuals struggle with acceptance if they have a religious bent, but over time they either reject religion all together, or they adapt and realize that most religious text and proclamations on the topic were made by people who had no clue about homosexuality. You won't find very many gays later in life who dwell on the idea that they will burn in hell for gay sex. You simply get burned out on guilt. You can only hate yourself so long until you finally say fuck it.

My point wasn't rather most people are 100% rational, but that some rationality is why MANY people only follow what parts of a religion or any other human organized sets of rules are set up. Divorce rates are around 50%. I assure you that such effects divorce and remarriage percentages in organized churches as much as those who are not religious.

Do you think most Catholic couples of child bearing age are using the rhythm method of birth control? That Catholic dudes never wear condoms?

Most people that I know are of the cafeteria variety when it comes to rules and regulations in religion or otherwise.

Most rational people (again it doesn't have to be 100%) . simply do what they want to do, and ignore what they don't agree with Some do it to a larger extent than others.
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