Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Dextroque » 8 July 2019, 10:28

Jzone wrote:No. I think most people don't "pick their world view" at all (and no one is near 100% rational). For most people, their world view is a result of a combination of family, friends, community, culture, education, plus some random factors. Probably only a small percentage of people ever give it much conscious thought, let alone rational scrutiny. If most adults were purely (or mostly) rational, we would live in a very different world.


Sure, most of people...like cattle.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby mxguy01 » 8 July 2019, 18:23

Dextroque wrote:
Jzone wrote:No. I think most people don't "pick their world view" at all (and no one is near 100% rational). For most people, their world view is a result of a combination of family, friends, community, culture, education, plus some random factors. Probably only a small percentage of people ever give it much conscious thought, let alone rational scrutiny. If most adults were purely (or mostly) rational, we would live in a very different world.


Sure, most of people...like cattle.


Is the reason people then to be like cattle, or rather prefer to be like cattle, is so they don't have to take responsibility for thinking and acting for themselves? My response would be yes, and organization like various religions do everything to capitalize using that.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 8 July 2019, 18:25

mxguy01 wrote:
Dextroque wrote:
Jzone wrote:No. I think most people don't "pick their world view" at all (and no one is near 100% rational). For most people, their world view is a result of a combination of family, friends, community, culture, education, plus some random factors. Probably only a small percentage of people ever give it much conscious thought, let alone rational scrutiny. If most adults were purely (or mostly) rational, we would live in a very different world.


Sure, most of people...like cattle.


Is the reason people then to be like cattle, or rather prefer to be like cattle, is so they don't have to take responsibility for thinking and acting for themselves?

If true that’d be pretty ironic concerning the personal responsibility crowd.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Jzone » 9 July 2019, 17:28

NobodySpecial wrote:The fact that you see someones world view as a combination of factors means that some picking is going on. We don't just inherit a world view as is there is always adjustments made as one gets older.

My point that people's world views result from a combination of factors is simply a recognition of the many influences on our thoughts and beliefs. I think the majority of these factors are subconscious and irrational for most people. No conscious "picking" required.


My point wasn't rather most people are 100% rational, but that some rationality is why MANY people only follow what parts of a religion or any other human organized sets of rules are set up[...]

Do you think most Catholic couples of child bearing age are using the rhythm method of birth control? That Catholic dudes never wear condoms?

Most people that I know are of the cafeteria variety when it comes to rules and regulations in religion or otherwise.

Most rational people (again it doesn't have to be 100%) . simply do what they want to do, and ignore what they don't agree with Some do it to a larger extent than others.

I look at your examples and conclude the opposite. To call one's self Catholic and behave in ways that contradict the teachings and tenets of that religion is irrational. It takes surprising effort to examine and challenge our own beliefs and behavior. Most people don't seem up to (or perhaps are just not interested in) the task.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 12 July 2019, 08:13

Jzone wrote:
NobodySpecial wrote:...
My point wasn't rather most people are 100% rational, but that some rationality is why MANY people only follow what parts of a religion or any other human organized sets of rules are set up[...]

Do you think most Catholic couples of child bearing age are using the rhythm method of birth control? That Catholic dudes never wear condoms?

Most people that I know are of the cafeteria variety when it comes to rules and regulations in religion or otherwise.

Most rational people (again it doesn't have to be 100%) . simply do what they want to do, and ignore what they don't agree with Some do it to a larger extent than others.

I look at your examples and conclude the opposite. To call one's self Catholic and behave in ways that contradict the teachings and tenets of that religion is irrational. It takes surprising effort to examine and challenge our own beliefs and behavior. Most people don't seem up to (or perhaps are just not interested in) the task.


First of all, do you have any idea of the numbers of rules and regulations there are out there? Remember that the Catholic Church alone has existed for about 2000 years. I seriously doubt that even a theologian scholar can swear on a Bible that he/she knows all of the rules.

There is nothing irrational about contradicting rules and regulations that you don't agree with. Were (USA) guys like me who sodomized men before the Supreme Court overturned sodomy laws in 2003 being irrational, or just living their lives doing what they wanted to do? Would a more rational guy have wandered the world searching for that nation state (if such existed much before 2003) where they could engage in sodomy without any conflict with the law before they engaged in sodomy?

I have absolutely no interest in spending my life not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk if someone tells me that is an example of another rule to follow. I live my life by my own rules. At the same time, I choose to live where I want to live, go to church (if I want to) where I want to go, and love who I want to love. I don't openly talk about it in public because I understand that most people cannot handle it. It is their short coming, I will go as far as not bring it up, but I won't move or change where I want to go just to appease them.

Having an introspective personality, I've spent a lifetime examining and challenging my believes, and I don't find that difficult effort at all. Now on the other hand changing one's behaviors is very difficult. That I will very much agree with.

I am a non-conformist on just about everything. That being said, I choose where I live (regardless if the laws of the land or social mores say pairing up with another man is wrong), I simply won't be honest with them. I feel free to go to any church I want (even if they have no understanding of man on man emotional love), again, I simply won't be honest with them.

Limiting one's self to only form associations with organizations whose rules and regulations you agree with 100% (or that you will modify all your beliefs/behaviors 100% to conform to those rules and regulations) sounds like a receipt for developing neurosis at best. It isn't me, and never will be.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Jzone » 13 July 2019, 06:37

NobodySpecial wrote:First of all, do you have any idea of the numbers of rules and regulations there are out there? Remember that the Catholic Church alone has existed for about 2000 years. I seriously doubt that even a theologian scholar can swear on a Bible that he/she knows all of the rules.

I am well aware of the number of rules and regulations involved in Catholicism (and other religions). The antiquity of a religion or superstition has nothing to do with its validity.

There is nothing irrational about contradicting rules and regulations that you don't agree with. Were (USA) guys like me who sodomized men before the Supreme Court overturned sodomy laws in 2003 being irrational, or just living their lives doing what they wanted to do? Would a more rational guy have wandered the world searching for that nation state (if such existed much before 2003) where they could engage in sodomy without any conflict with the law before they engaged in sodomy?

Contradicting the laws and morals of nations is one thing: contradicting the laws of a divine god who oversees the future of your immortal soul is another.

I have absolutely no interest in spending my life not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk if someone tells me that is an example of another rule to follow. I live my life by my own rules. At the same time, I choose to live where I want to live, go to church (if I want to) where I want to go, and love who I want to love. I don't openly talk about it in public because I understand that most people cannot handle it. It is their short coming, I will go as far as not bring it up, but I won't move or change where I want to go just to appease them.

I support you in your choices. Living your life by your own rules, however, my be in conflict with Catholicism (or other religion of choice). There are boundaries which, if crossed, remove us from grace or salvation.

Having an introspective personality, I've spent a lifetime examining and challenging my believes, and I don't find that difficult effort at all. Now on the other hand changing one's behaviors is very difficult. That I will very much agree with.

Yes, We introverts have an advantage in this regard. I do believe that most people do not have the wherewithal to critically examine their own beliefs and behavior.

Limiting one's self to only form associations with organizations whose rules and regulations you agree with 100% (or that you will modify all your beliefs/behaviors 100% to conform to those rules and regulations) sounds like a receipt for developing neurosis at best. It isn't me, and never will be.

Good for you. Really, I admire that. However, the OP was about reconciling our lifestyles/beliefs with the Bible. This is not a simple "organization"; rather a foundational understanding of life, the universe, and everything. I'm not promoting neurosis, but challenging the somewhat common merging of sloppy Christianity with a superior personal morality.
Last edited by Jzone on 17 July 2019, 03:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Dextroque » 13 July 2019, 07:31

Oh the drama!
Now I see how come Jesus never spoke about gay people.
:monocle:
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 13 July 2019, 13:22

Dextroque wrote:Oh the drama!
Now I see how come Jesus never spoke about gay people.
:monocle:

He was too busy sucking every dick in sight.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 16 July 2019, 04:33

Gay Christian is an oxymoron in my opinion.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby homomorphism » 16 July 2019, 12:12

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Dextroque wrote:Oh the drama!
Now I see how come Jesus never spoke about gay people.
:monocle:

He was too busy sucking every dick in sight.

Your evolution on this topic has gone from making an honest attempt at explaining to Christian gays why their waxing philosophical is just trying to force the square peg of their world view into the round hole of reality to making dick jokes about Jesus.

Truly a sight to behold.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 16 July 2019, 14:34

To be fair I’ve done both since GTF. :shrug:

Also, it’s 2019. There’s a reason you don’t hear a whole lot from Dan Savage and John Corvino as much as we used to. Having this mindset just seems so dated. It’s like, catch up already. Gay hate is so yesterday. What’s trending currently is trans hate and a return of black hate.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby homomorphism » 20 July 2019, 21:08

poolerboy0077 wrote:To be fair I’ve done both since GTF. :shrug:

Also, it’s 2019. There’s a reason you don’t hear a whole lot from Dan Savage and John Corvino as much as we used to. Having this mindset just seems so dated. It’s like, catch up already. Gay hate is so yesterday. What’s trending currently is trans hate and a return of black hate.


Doesn't Dan Savage still blog about being monogamish or whatever?
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 21 July 2019, 03:13

homomorphism wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:To be fair I’ve done both since GTF. :shrug:

Also, it’s 2019. There’s a reason you don’t hear a whole lot from Dan Savage and John Corvino as much as we used to. Having this mindset just seems so dated. It’s like, catch up already. Gay hate is so yesterday. What’s trending currently is trans hate and a return of black hate.


Doesn't Dan Savage still blog about being monogamish or whatever?

I mean, he’s still around doing his podcast and whatnot but my point is that he’s not as visible in popular culture as he once was. To an extent I suppose that’s because it’s become fashionable to be a part of the intellectual dark web but also because we sort of “won” the culture war when it comes to gay issues. It’s a shame, really, because they’re needed now more than ever not only to prevent a noticable backsliding but also because there aren’t many prominent defenders of trans people. The job is mostly being left up to sanctimonious adolescents.

But going back to the original topic, it’s 2019 so if you’re gay and Christian and you’re having a “crisis,” I mean, it’s time to play catch-up.
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Re: Reconciling Offensive Bible Scripture to Gay People.

Unread postby Iamjava » 21 July 2019, 03:22

.
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