René

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Re: René

Unread postby Capt._Trips » 2 December 2019, 02:21

LouisFl wrote:I'm new here and just read this thread. Seems like the whole experience was very scary, not only for you but also the people around you and on the forum who love you. When you are surrounded with family and friends like you have I think of the song, "You'll never walk alone."

Welcome back.


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Re: René

Unread postby LouisFl » 2 December 2019, 03:31

That was a beautiful video. I am sure Rene loved it.
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Re: René

Unread postby Brenden » 2 December 2019, 09:27

Derek wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:Keep it up and Derek will have no choice but to take back his thoughts and prayers. :oface:

I'm perfectly capable of recognizing how much better the healthcare system is in Scotland than it is here, thank you. But also I don't have take back my thoughts or prayers because I never tried to revive René psychically.

You might have reduced his hospital stay by a day with your awesome psychic abilities!
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Re: René

Unread postby GearFetTwinkRomance » 2 December 2019, 13:45

Glad@René doing so well-ish now, I got some worries about them giving opiates. Not because of real interference with any recovery, but I got opiates for quite a while after having my Op's and they affected me toward a mental state of ... dunno if there are words to describe this. Becoming a partial mental zombie in weird punctual cases that I didn't like myself in. Always tired, slow, sloth alike, clogged...Okay, now I'm mentally weird to begin with ... different world, it may have played more of a zombie quality.

Then I read bp values 200/100. Holy man! :noes:
I guess I wasn't that high up in my former most youth high-bp related excitement outbursts. ( Then related to overweight, no sports and being a lazy tail douche) :lol:
If you're used to very low bp over a lifetime, such a value must come like a pressure overdose.
Can't do that no more, aye. Medication interaction, very serious, right. May turn out quite dangerous, as it has.

I do think, playing the piano and music in general should be one of the best ways to get nerves and the muscle motor back to the usual strength. Music's like a spark up rain for anything neuronal, even just listening to music makes everything go busy body in the wee compartment 'endoverse'. Reading about the Marfan syndrome and it's genetic properties, I understand what led to the theorising. Very probable, too.

I would, however, shave the head of the person who compiled your meds that time!

Hope, Brenden can manage to keep a reasonable, so healthy worries balance, but I can comprehend. Same, when my Mum had her stroke, and I would be heightened on the watch for most any sign of her acting unusual or monitoring her behaviours and that, when she had come home and the years thereafter.
Takes time, it'll grow back to a common state I guess.

Get well!
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Re: René

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 2 December 2019, 18:19

Derek wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:Keep it up and Derek will have no choice but to take back his thoughts and prayers. :oface:

I'm perfectly capable of recognizing how much better the healthcare system is in Scotland than it is here, thank you. But also I don't have take back my thoughts or prayers because I never tried to revive René psychically.

I imagine Ayn Rand is turning in her grave seeing you make such a concession to socialism.
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Re: René

Unread postby Derek » 2 December 2019, 18:40

I'm pretty sure her loved ones buried her face-down anyways.
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Re: René

Unread postby Brenden » 2 December 2019, 21:42

Ayn Rand had loved ones?
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Re: René

Unread postby erti » 7 December 2019, 12:28

Sorry I didn’t say anything earlier but I’m glad you’re doing better Rene.
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Re: René

Unread postby René » 7 December 2019, 22:42

acpro wrote:Etizolam ... I've been reading a lot about in the last 5 years.

I ordered a bunch of it (as well as pyrazolam) before the Psychoactive Substances Act entered force in 2016 and all the legal UK vendors of such substances shut down. I only keep it around for emergencies, because the use of benzos is associated with development of dementia (same goes for anticholinergics, which would include diphenhydramine/Benadryl and most tricyclic antidepressants), even though causation has not been proven.

It's technically not a benzodiazepine but a thienodiazepine, however it is a selective agonist at benzodiazepine receptors. As benzo-like drugs go it is quite interesting; there is evidence of a kind of reverse tolerance to its anti-anxiety and anticonvulsant effects, which seem to become stronger rather than weaker with continued administration, which probably means it is less likely to lead to dependence and withdrawal than classic benzos, although I'm sure there is still a strong potential for addiction.

I only use it as a last resort if I really can't sleep but need to before something important like a flight, or in a hypertensive emergency as occurred here.

Pyrazolam is also very interesting; it has potent anti-anxiety properties without being very sedating. I've found it extremely useful for performance anxiety when it comes to musical performances in front of large groups of people; it seems to have no acute negative effect on skill and doesn't tend to induce drowsiness. But benzodiazepine-receptor agonists will always be scary, so I also limit use of this as much as possible. I've only used pyrazolam once in the last few years (before playing the piano in front of like 100 people at a festival held in remembrance of my father).

acpro wrote:Do you know which drug interaction? Recreational or prescribed? Not that it matters but it helps for other people who might be worried about having something similar at such a young age.

Therapeutic but unprescribed, and one of the substances involved is technically regarded as a nutritional supplement or food supplement (but as in many cases, a more apt description would be unregulated/unapproved medicine).

Basically, ever since I was a child, I've suffered from problems with motivation/drive, concentration, anxiety and resultant (anxiety-based) procrastination. Many years ago while perusing the medical literature, I came across a possible solution, principally aimed at patients suffering from depression, but which resolved in these patients some of the same symptoms to do with motivation. The solution was to combine the MAO-B inhibitor selegiline, normally used to treat Parkinson's disease, with low doses of phenylethylamine, also known as phenethylamine or PEA, and sometimes called an "endogenous amphetamine"; it's basically amphetamine (a noradrenaline and dopamine releasing agent) but without the alpha-methyl group, which somewhat changes its pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic properties and makes it an extremely easy target for degradation by the MAO-B enzyme, which is why PEA (which is contained at some level in chocolate) has zero effect on most people when taken in anything but the most extreme quantities...unless MAO-B is knocked out by an inhibitor like selegiline, in which case it functions a lot like amphetamine, except that at low doses, it actually has sustainable antidepressant and motivation-boosting effects without development of tolerance. You just have to be careful to stick to very minute doses, like 10 mg 3x daily, to avoid it giving you a very euphoric and addictive high to which tolerance does occur.

Anyway, I figured out how to reliably acquire prescription medications without a prescription and acquired selegiline (PEA is freely available as a "supplement" and marketed as kind of a scam toward bodybuilders, who seem to be easily deluded into thinking it will improve their workouts even without an MAO-B inhibitor) and used the combination quite successfully for years.

More recently, Brenden was suffering from severe depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, and outbursts of rage. He didn't respond as positively to the selegiline + low-dose PEA combo as I did, and rather than going through the charade of trying like 20 SSRIs with the GP while never achieving full remission (they are far too quick to accept only minor improvement), I figured we could do better, so I did a lot of research and identified and acquired a range of substances (both prescription drugs and other "supplements") that seemed promising. We made substantial progress with Brenden with these substances, but improvement in depression, anxiety and motivation remained insufficient to enable normal functioning.

Then a few months ago, we realised that there was a whole class of antidepressants we (and most clinicians) had been ignoring for reasons that may have been invalid: the unselective monoamine-oxidase inhibitors or MAOIs — inhibitors of both the MAO-A and MAO-B enzyme, which together are responsible for a lot of the natural degradation of monoamine neurotransmitters like serotonin, noradrenaline and dopamine, but which some people have too much of, meaning there is insufficient neurotransmission, which increases one's risk of problems with mood and concentration. These medications largely get written off because people think they have all these deadly, unpredictable interactions with foods and other drugs. To some extent this is true, but in fact the interactions are now quite well-understood and not really unpredictable anymore, and they are rarely deadly. Furthermore, these drugs (introduced starting around 1960) remain effective in even the most severely treatment-resistant cases of depression, even ones where electroconvulsive therapy (ECT, formerly known as electroshock therapy, which is usually very effective) has failed. Doctors nowadays tend to prescribe ECT as a "last resort" without even considering MAOIs, even though it is now not that hard to avoid interacting drugs and foods. (For those interested, more details can be found on Psychotropical, the website of the brilliant Australian psychiatrist and clinical pharmacologist Dr Ken Gillman, a world-renowned researcher and expert in these these underused but potentially life-saving medications and their interactions, who has pretty much dedicated his retirement to spreading awareness of them.)

Anyway, the most promising MAOI, with the lowest risk of intolerable side effects (like weight gain and sexual side effects, which are very common among antidepressants in general), appeared to be tranylcypromine (also known by the abbreviation TCP and its brand name Parnate). So I got us some. We both rapidly experienced improvement, me in my motivation, anxiety and concentration, and Brenden in his depression-related problems.

I had kept taking the mini-doses of PEA every day for additional support, despite knowing its effect would likely be potentiated more by TCP than it had been by selegiline. I carefully monitored my blood pressure every day and didn't notice any worrying spikes, but I guess as the TCP inhibited more and more of the enzymes over time, the effects of PEA slowly grew stronger without me realising it, and on Friday the 22nd of November, it did become reinforcing despite the tiny doses, and I ended up taking a bit more of it than I'd planned to. I also hadn't realised that early on in the day every day, I'd been getting some protection courtesy of TCP's acute effects while it remains in the bloodstream through one of its other mechanisms: it is also a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor, which actually prevents blood-pressure spikes that can be induced by the tyramine contained in certain foods as well as by substances like PEA, but it got a bit later in the day, by which time not much of it remained in my bloodstream and that protection will have worn off. There did end up being a blood-pressure spike, which led to my "minor bleed".

An additional factor was that I had a pretty earth-shattering orgasm shortly before the acute event, which can't have helped. (A significant proportion of these bleeds occur after sex, even in people who aren't taking any medication at all.)

Needless to say, I haven't been taking PEA anymore and I've been extremely careful about foods that may contain tyramine. I'm also reconsidering whether the TCP is really the best solution for my issues (and I know my continuing to take it hasn't been great for Brenden's own anxiety).

GearFetTwinkRomance wrote:Glad@René doing so well-ish now, I got some worries about them giving opiates. Not because of real interference with any recovery, but I got opiates for quite a while after having my Op's and they affected me toward a mental state of ... dunno if there are words to describe this. Becoming a partial mental zombie in weird punctual cases that I didn't like myself in. Always tired, slow, sloth alike, clogged...Okay, now I'm mentally weird to begin with ... different world, it may have played more of a zombie quality.

I was hesitant to accept the opioid as well (don't want to get addicted or more tired than I have to) but it is a very low dose (30 mg of dihydrocodeine; they say I can take one tablet every 4 to 6 hours as required, but I just take one every morning) and the first day I accepted this from the nurses (along with the 1 g of paracetamol/acetaminophen I was already taking 4 times a day) was the first day my headache went away completely, so it seems to be doing its job, and it doesn't seem to cause excessive tiredness.
I tried taking it before bed rather than in the morning once, but then Brenden said I made some sounds suggestive of sleep apnoea in the night, so I didn't do that again. (Of course it makes sense since opioids are known to suppress breathing.)

GearFetTwinkRomance wrote:I would, however, shave the head of the person who compiled your meds that time!

But...I like my hair :(
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PostThis post was deleted by Brenden on 7 December 2019, 23:39.
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Re: René

Unread postby EleniDoSorto66 » 7 December 2019, 23:25

I would absolutely adore a nice barbiturate-cocktail right now.

I remember when I was a teenager; acting out, rebellious -- essentially struggling. I was arrested after school one day due to I threatening to harm myself. I was brought to a hospital and forced to change and lay on a bed being monitored.

That was a Monday evening.
One moment I was in a waiting room with beds lined up separated by curtains and than the next instance I wake up within a completely different room; four greyish-blue walls and three trays of food untouched poised on my right resting on top of some drawer. As soon as I roused a group of nurses and (assuming) the Doctor came in. I suppose they were looking at me from a camera.

They told me I was going to be transferred to a new Hospital "today, this Wednesday" -- "Wednesday? Wtf happened to Tuesday?"

I completely blacked out an entire day.

Come to find out while discussing this incident with the Doctor at this new hospital, we discovered that I was pumped up with multiple anti-pyschotics. I also apparently spoke to four different people without any knowledge of doing so.

I believe I read a few statements in my chart/paperwork from the previous hospital. Apparently I was telling the hospital staff that if I must be detained, "drug me the f$#@ out." I mean, it sounds like something I'd say. But, still.

Needless to say the Doctor filed a complaint claiming the amount of drugs administered to me in such a small amount of time was "unorthodox" and that was the last I heard of it/dealt with anything similar since.

Besides all that nonsensical, incongruous narrative of mine, it's good to know that you're doing better, René. Also, thank you for that eye-opening and educative "essay" on drugs, the differences between each drugs and their reactions.

May I ask if you're a nurse and if so what would you recommend, than, for anxiety -- but something that works immediately?
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Re: René

Unread postby Jzone » 8 December 2019, 00:07

I don't think René is a nurse; just self-educated better than most nurses on many medical topics.

Anxiety has been a part-time companion of mine the past few years. The most immediate relief I have experienced has been through physical activity, nature immersion, and human interaction (friendship). I have found little to no relief with herbal supplements, drugs, or therapy.

If it is of any consolation, "wtf happened to Tuesday" is a common thought of mine. :D
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Re: René

Unread postby acpro » 8 December 2019, 06:45

holy shit. I can't believe you took PEA. I mean that by how relatively obscure it. I used to order it by the kilo. I was mildly addicted. I gave my mom one dose like maybe 250mg and she was vomiting for hours. Sometimes if I took too much it literally felt like I was going to die. I've since stop taking it because even though it does help with motivation, it's really fast acting and I needed to redose too much. It was too easy to go overboard and feel like literal shit for an hour.

Crazy enough, there is a pyramid scheme in America, called Thrive, selling a patch which has PEA in it (among other things). It's for stay at home moms basically and they say 'it works' but I think they're really just all high out of their minds. There was a pretty well publicised murder in Colorado last year by Chris Watts. His wife sold Thrive and he would use a couple of these patches a day. He lost a ton of weight and had tons of extra energy. He ended up cheating on his wife then killing her and his two toddler daughters.

I always thought it was interesting how little negative publicity Thrive got from the murder. I haven't seen anyone attribute this guys crimes to the PEA or Thrive at all outside of forums. Even on the forums, people are just speculating and I haven't seen a single person mention PEA being one of the ingredients. One of the reasons why the murder is so crazy is because Chris Watts was normally an introverted super kind guy...not the type of person who committed familicide. I always wondered if PEA was a contributing factor to his mental state at the time.

Anyway, I think it's a smart decision to stay away from PEA. I know I'm never taking it again. I have a shit ton left but I'll just let it collect dust.
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Re: René

Unread postby René » 8 December 2019, 07:45

acpro wrote:holy shit. I can't believe you took PEA. I mean that by how relatively obscure it.

I am similarly amazed to come across someone here who knows what it is!

acpro wrote:I used to order it by the kilo.

Aye, been there... that was, shall we say, problematic. :D

acpro wrote:Crazy enough, there is a pyramid scheme in America, called Thrive, selling a patch which has PEA in it (among other things). It's for stay at home moms basically and they say 'it works' but I think they're really just all high out of their minds. There was a pretty well publicised murder in Colorado last year by Chris Watts. His wife sold Thrive and he would use a couple of these patches a day. He lost a ton of weight and had tons of extra energy. He ended up cheating on his wife then killing her and his two toddler daughters.

I always thought it was interesting how little negative publicity Thrive got from the murder. I haven't seen anyone attribute this guys crimes to the PEA or Thrive at all outside of forums. Even on the forums, people are just speculating and I haven't seen a single person mention PEA being one of the ingredients. One of the reasons why the murder is so crazy is because Chris Watts was normally an introverted super kind guy...not the type of person who committed familicide. I always wondered if PEA was a contributing factor to his mental state at the time.

That is a fascinating story! I never heard of anyone creating a transdermal delivery system for PEA.

acpro wrote:Anyway, I think it's a smart decision to stay away from PEA. I know I'm never taking it again. I have a shit ton left but I'll just let it collect dust.

Brenden actually flushed what was left of mine down the toilet about 7 years ago. When I resumed using it at the sustainable mini-doses enabled by selegiline a few years later, all I needed was a 50-gram bag, which lasted me years and which Brenden has now hidden in an unknown location (not because I have any intention or temptation to use it, but just as a precaution).
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Re: René

Unread postby René » 8 December 2019, 08:21

EleniDoSorto66 wrote:May I ask if you're a nurse
Jzone wrote:I don't think René is a nurse; just self-educated better than most nurses on many medical topics.

Yeah, and I am used to doctors and nurses (GPs, my dad's carers when he had cancer, hospital staff) asking me if I am medical / went to medical school. With hindsight, I probably should have, if I could have found a way, or at least gone into biochemistry / pharmacological research — it probably wasn't terribly compatible with my educational pathway (dropped out of secondary school with my parents' and the school management's blessing as it was going nowhere (in connection with Asperger syndrome), started a business and later got a Bachelor of Science degree from the Open University studying from home).

EleniDoSorto66 wrote:and if so what would you recommend, than, for anxiety -- but something that works immediately?

If you need something that works acutely, there's:

  • Theanine (this is the calming substance found in tea, which you can get from Amazon/eBay as a powder and dissolve in any drink); this stuff is pretty harmless and sustainable, not addictive
  • Magnolia-bark extract is basically nature's benzo; probably not sustainable but will work in a pinch and is probably less harmful than pharmaceutical benzos
  • Lemon-balm extract is also a potent, if somewhat sedating, anti-anxiety agent which actually inhibits the enzyme that breaks down the inhibitory/calming neurotransmitter GABA in the brain. You can get this either as a powder (doesn't taste terribly nice, but it works; it will dissolve in hot water or tea and you can sweeten it) or in tablet form
  • Taurine may also be helpful and is extremely safe.

These are all short-term solutions for acute anxiety/panic/insomnia, probably not long-term solutions, which I'm still looking for. Currently trying L-tryptophan and/or 5-HTP, which, like TCP, should enhance serotonergic neurotransmission.

Buspirone (or its plant cousin, Albizia julibrissin extract, which contains a natural 5-HT1A receptor agonist) is a possible long-term option that works for some people. I've had some success with both the pharmaceutical and the plant extract and may revisit it.
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Re: René

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 8 December 2019, 13:43

René wrote:and later got a Bachelor of Science degree from the Open University studying from home).

Pfft. The only university people need to attend is the university of common SENSE! <said with angry Boomer blue collar accent>

By the way, how are you holding up? Any more numbness on your left side? What lingering issues do you have to overcome?
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Re: René

Unread postby René » 8 December 2019, 17:07

poolerboy0077 wrote:
René wrote:and later got a Bachelor of Science degree from the Open University studying from home).

Pfft. The only university people need to attend is the university of common SENSE! <said with angry Boomer blue collar accent>

Haha :P
Well, with hindsight, it wasn't very useful.

poolerboy0077 wrote:By the way, how are you holding up? [...] What lingering issues do you have to overcome?

Everything largely feels normal now except that I feel like I need to send stronger signals to the muscles controlling my left hand to push buttons/keys with the strength I'm used to and things like that. When playing board games that involve holding cards, they will often just randomly fall out of my left hand, which is annoying.
I'm still working on getting my typing speed back to its former phenomenal rate :P but that hasn't prevented me from getting back to my translation work!
I'm still taking the opioid and 4 g of paracetamol (acetaminophen to you Americans) every day; when I slack taking the paracetamol every ~6 hours, the headache slowly comes back. Hopefully that won't last much longer since these painkillers aren't exactly good for you.
I think the main lingering issue we need to overcome is Brenden's anxiety. He's been constantly afraid that I am unwell or that it'll happen again, even though we know what caused it last time and those factors have been taken away.

poolerboy0077 wrote:Any more numbness on your left side?

No, I actually don't have any memory of experiencing that at all. :P My memories jump straight from sitting on the couch with a big headache, throwing up and hearing Brenden talking about calling 999 to waking up in the high-dependency unit at what I'm told was the second hospital I was taken to (Queen Elizabeth University Hospital Glasgow, after the first one, Wishaw General, where the nearest ER was, didn't have the appropriate scanning equipment available), by which point full sensation in the left side seemed to have returned, although I did have some weakness and couldn't lift my left arm and leg up very high.

The nurses kept having me squeeze their hands to assess my strength, and after a few days they were like "Don't hurt me!" :P

René wrote:
GearFetTwinkRomance wrote:I would, however, shave the head of the person who compiled your meds that time!

But...I like my hair :(

Funny thing actually... when I took a shower at the hospital, I noticed that my male-pattern hair loss seemed to have been arrested! Despite me not having gotten to use the minoxidil I previously applied twice a day to minimise it. It hasn't come back so far, so hopefully this is somehow a lasting side effect of the event.
More fun stuff: ever since it happened, my eyes and mouth haven't been getting super-dry in the night anymore like they had been for years after being prescribed isotretinoin to get rid of acne :awesome:
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Re: René

Unread postby Brenden » 8 December 2019, 20:03

Is subarachnoid haemorrhage right for you? As your doctor! May cause stroke or death.
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Re: René

Unread postby Jryski » 11 December 2019, 04:06

Glad you're okay! :0
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Re: René

Unread postby Derek » 11 December 2019, 04:55

Wait, what do you mean your hair loss was arrested? You mean no hair fell out in the shower?
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