The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

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The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 26 July 2019, 12:23

Do you recognize anyone in these Photos?

This collection of photos was first printed circa 1957 at a neighborhood drugstore in North Philadelphia.

The photographs capture special moments during a same-sex commitment ceremony, including the exchange of rings in front of witnesses, an officiant leading the ceremony, the first kiss, dancing, opening of gifts, cutting of the cake and more.

The owner of the drugstore deemed these particular wedding photos to be inappropriate and refused to return the photos to the grooms.

60 years later, the photos were found. The originals are now kept safely between the One National Gay & Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles and the John J. Wilcox, Jr. Archives in Philadelphia.


Crazyyy but I do think it's so awesome that there were commitment ceremonies back in the 1950s in Philly of all places. They look like they could be my friends.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby Eryx » 26 July 2019, 13:02

I love it! Surely there must have been many communities of gay guys all over the world even then. I remember reading something about people in the Army finding out about each other and having private parties back in WWI. I have a book here called My Queer War that I bought in Miami and talks about a soldier for Vietnam who had a lot of adventures with marines and soldiers in bars catered to gay army men back then.

They probably had to be more discreet than nowadays, but I'm sure there were just as many of us as there are today. Pretty cool! I hope they led a happy and fulfilling life.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 26 July 2019, 13:23

Eryx wrote:I love it! Surely there must have been many communities of gay guys all over the world even then. I remember reading something about people in the Army finding out about each other and having private parties back in WWI. I have a book here called My Queer War that I bought in Miami and talks about a soldier for Vietnam who had a lot of adventures with marines and soldiers in bars catered to gay army men back then.

They probably had to be more discreet than nowadays, but I'm sure there were just as many of us as there are today. Pretty cool! I hope they led a happy and fulfilling life.


Man, I feel so bad for them, having to hide like that. That's so cool about the WWI soldiers having parties and stuff with each other. Think of all of the people though who were too afraid to come out back then? I feel so bad for them.

But I love these pics and I hope someone recognizes these guys and they're still alive, so their pics can be returned.

I also love that there are organizations out there that are dedicated to LGBT history and archives. Growing up I never learned about any gay leaders or history and even today, I know very little. I hope schools start teaching more LGBT history!
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby Jzone » 26 July 2019, 13:44

This is my great-great uncle in the mid 1930's. I don't think he regularly did drag, but when he did he rocked it!

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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 26 July 2019, 19:48

Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 27 July 2019, 01:58

jimbo_xix wrote:Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.


lol not for nothing but I don't think anyone, including the article, or the title, which I plagiarized, used the word "marriage" which you're right is a legal contract.

I think you might be conflating "wedding" and "marriage" as the same thing, but since you quoted the word "'marriage,'" may I ask where you saw that term used? I don't see it. I see "wedding" which isn't a contract but rather the ceremony.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 27 July 2019, 02:00

Jzone wrote:This is my great-great uncle in the mid 1930's. I don't think he regularly did drag, but when he did he rocked it!

IMG_0001_3.jpeg



omg I wish I had known your great uncle!!!! He's such an OG!!!!!!
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 July 2019, 03:38

Heh, fags.


No but in all seriousness Cláudio brings up something interesting which is the formation of gay social groups and establishments at a time when it was considered so outrageous. Like, how does a person living in that era even get the courage to introduce themselves to someone as gay in the hopes that the other person is too and not someone who will make your life hell after knowing your truth?
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 27 July 2019, 04:02

acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.


lol not for nothing but I don't think anyone, including the article, or the title, which I plagiarized, used the word "marriage" which you're right is a legal contract.

I think you might be conflating "wedding" and "marriage" as the same thing, but since you quoted the word "'marriage,'" may I ask where you saw that term used? I don't see it. I see "wedding" which isn't a contract but rather the ceremony.


A wedding is by definition a marriage ceremony. The point here is that LGBT hacks will try to change the history of the queer struggle to fit their current campaign for monogamy and sexual exclusivity. That was never the goal of the gay rights movement.

Dictionary

wed·ding
/ˈwediNG/

noun
a marriage ceremony, especially considered as including the associated celebrations.
synonyms: marriage, marriage ceremony, wedding ceremony, nuptial ceremony, marriage service, wedding service, marriage rites, wedding rites, matrimony, holy matrimony, nuptials, union; More
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 27 July 2019, 04:41

jimbo_xix wrote:
acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.


lol not for nothing but I don't think anyone, including the article, or the title, which I plagiarized, used the word "marriage" which you're right is a legal contract.

I think you might be conflating "wedding" and "marriage" as the same thing, but since you quoted the word "'marriage,'" may I ask where you saw that term used? I don't see it. I see "wedding" which isn't a contract but rather the ceremony.


A wedding is by definition a marriage ceremony. The point here is that LGBT hacks will try to change the history of the queer struggle to fit their current campaign for monogamy and sexual exclusivity. That was never the goal of the gay rights movement.

Dictionary

wed·ding
/ˈwediNG/

noun
a marriage ceremony, especially considered as including the associated celebrations.
synonyms: marriage, marriage ceremony, wedding ceremony, nuptial ceremony, marriage service, wedding service, marriage rites, wedding rites, matrimony, holy matrimony, nuptials, union; More


I think in this example you knew what the LGBT center meant. They were using the term loosely and either way, you misquoted them by literally quoting the term "marriage" when you put it in quotes, while the term had never been used once. So HA. Criticise the LGBT center all you want but I wouldn't dare correct them, when I think they're doing a great thing...and like I said they never used the word "marriage" ... I know tons of people who hold "weddings" without an official piece of paper for a "marriage" and I think that's what they were going for. I get what you mean, but I don't even think it holds water, see my edit below, but it's just not the time or place to bring it up. We all know in the 1950's there weren't same sex weddings and the Center even used the term "commitment ceremony" so why go at them? I don't have a horse in the race, I merely copy and pasted what they wrote, I just think they shouldn't be subject to criticism, when doing a good thing, and technically you misquoted them by literally putting quotes around a term that they didn't use. That's called intellectual dishonesty.

EDIT:

And from Marriam Webster a Wedding is:
- : a marriage ceremony usually with its accompanying festivities : NUPTIALS

So the wedding is the marriage CEREMONY, not the marriage, which are two very distinct things. It's like saying a reception = marriage. But it's just a ceremony for a marriage, not the actual marriage.
Last edited by acpro on 27 July 2019, 05:03, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 27 July 2019, 04:43

poolerboy0077 wrote:Heh, fags.


No but in all seriousness Cláudio brings up something interesting which is the formation of gay social groups and establishments at a time when it was considered so outrageous. Like, how does a person living in that era even get the courage to introduce themselves to someone as gay in the hopes that the other person is too and not someone who will make your life hell after knowing your truth?


I think people went out more and there were cafes and pubs which were known to be more liberal. In fact, some of the first LGBT groups in America were closely aligned with communism. But they also had code terms, like, "Are you friends with darthy?" Nah mean??
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 27 July 2019, 05:38

acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:
acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.


lol not for nothing but I don't think anyone, including the article, or the title, which I plagiarized, used the word "marriage" which you're right is a legal contract.

I think you might be conflating "wedding" and "marriage" as the same thing, but since you quoted the word "'marriage,'" may I ask where you saw that term used? I don't see it. I see "wedding" which isn't a contract but rather the ceremony.


A wedding is by definition a marriage ceremony. The point here is that LGBT hacks will try to change the history of the queer struggle to fit their current campaign for monogamy and sexual exclusivity. That was never the goal of the gay rights movement.

Dictionary

wed·ding
/ˈwediNG/

noun
a marriage ceremony, especially considered as including the associated celebrations.
synonyms: marriage, marriage ceremony, wedding ceremony, nuptial ceremony, marriage service, wedding service, marriage rites, wedding rites, matrimony, holy matrimony, nuptials, union; More


I think in this example you knew what the LGBT center meant. They were using the term loosely and either way, you misquoted them by literally quoting the term "marriage" when you put it in quotes, while the term had never been used once. So HA. Criticise the LGBT center all you want but I wouldn't dare correct them, when I think they're doing a great thing...and like I said they never used the word "marriage" ... I know tons of people who hold "weddings" without an official piece of paper for a "marriage" and I think that's what they were going for. I get what you mean, but I don't even think it holds water, see my edit below, but it's just not the time or place to bring it up. We all know in the 1950's there weren't same sex weddings and the Center even used the term "commitment ceremony" so why go at them? I don't have a horse in the race, I merely copy and pasted what they wrote, I just think they shouldn't be subject to criticism, when doing a good thing, and technically you misquoted them by literally putting quotes around a term that they didn't use. That's called intellectual dishonesty.

EDIT:

And from Marriam Webster a Wedding is:
- : a marriage ceremony usually with its accompanying festivities : NUPTIALS

So the wedding is the marriage CEREMONY, not the marriage, which are two very distinct things. It's like saying a reception = marriage. But it's just a ceremony for a marriage, not the actual marriage.


Jeezus christ, such duplicity from the crowd who want the government in my queer ass bedroom. I put "marriage" in quotes for emphasis, because that's exactly what is implied when this commitment party is mislabeled as a wedding. No, that was not a wedding. We gay males have committed to our partners for centuries. But it was never an attempt to mimic breeders and marriage. Sorry, two strong independent males who commit to each other are not playing house and pretending to be hubby and wifey. That's a very recent attempt by monogamists and the anti-sex league to force us to conform.

The real issue here is discrimination by a homophobic society which refused to process photos of two men kissing. Our struggle is still to free ourselves from gay bashers with baseball bats and discrimination in and out of the workplace. How dare you try to make this part of your push for monogamy and sexual exclusivity in MY community. THAT WAS NOT A WEDDING.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby acpro » 27 July 2019, 06:23

jimbo_xix wrote:
acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:
acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.


lol not for nothing but I don't think anyone, including the article, or the title, which I plagiarized, used the word "marriage" which you're right is a legal contract.

I think you might be conflating "wedding" and "marriage" as the same thing, but since you quoted the word "'marriage,'" may I ask where you saw that term used? I don't see it. I see "wedding" which isn't a contract but rather the ceremony.


A wedding is by definition a marriage ceremony. The point here is that LGBT hacks will try to change the history of the queer struggle to fit their current campaign for monogamy and sexual exclusivity. That was never the goal of the gay rights movement.

Dictionary

wed·ding
/ˈwediNG/

noun
a marriage ceremony, especially considered as including the associated celebrations.
synonyms: marriage, marriage ceremony, wedding ceremony, nuptial ceremony, marriage service, wedding service, marriage rites, wedding rites, matrimony, holy matrimony, nuptials, union; More


I think in this example you knew what the LGBT center meant. They were using the term loosely and either way, you misquoted them by literally quoting the term "marriage" when you put it in quotes, while the term had never been used once. So HA. Criticise the LGBT center all you want but I wouldn't dare correct them, when I think they're doing a great thing...and like I said they never used the word "marriage" ... I know tons of people who hold "weddings" without an official piece of paper for a "marriage" and I think that's what they were going for. I get what you mean, but I don't even think it holds water, see my edit below, but it's just not the time or place to bring it up. We all know in the 1950's there weren't same sex weddings and the Center even used the term "commitment ceremony" so why go at them? I don't have a horse in the race, I merely copy and pasted what they wrote, I just think they shouldn't be subject to criticism, when doing a good thing, and technically you misquoted them by literally putting quotes around a term that they didn't use. That's called intellectual dishonesty.

EDIT:

And from Marriam Webster a Wedding is:
- : a marriage ceremony usually with its accompanying festivities : NUPTIALS

So the wedding is the marriage CEREMONY, not the marriage, which are two very distinct things. It's like saying a reception = marriage. But it's just a ceremony for a marriage, not the actual marriage.


Jeezus christ, such duplicity from the crowd who want the government in my queer ass bedroom. I put "marriage" in quotes for emphasis, because that's exactly what is implied when this commitment party is mislabeled as a wedding. No, that was not a wedding. We gay males have committed to our partners for centuries. But it was never an attempt to mimic breeders and marriage. Sorry, two strong independent males who commit to each other are not playing house and pretending to be hubby and wifey. That's a very recent attempt by monogamists and the anti-sex league to force us to conform.

The real issue here is discrimination by a homophobic society which refused to process photos of two men kissing. Our struggle is still to free ourselves from gay bashers with baseball bats and discrimination in and out of the workplace. How dare you try to make this part of your push for monogamy and sexual exclusivity in MY community. THAT WAS NOT A WEDDING.


Well I don't know too much about anything but I use italics for emphasis.

And you're right the real issue is the fact that the photos were not given to the grooms. However, not to be stickler for semantics, but they were processed and developed, just not delivered back. And honestly, we don't know why. In those days the photo place was a middleman. They sent the photos to a lab usually. In this case, the photos were even crimped. There's a lot of reasons why these photos might not have ended up in the hands of their owner....but all go back to homophobia.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 27 July 2019, 18:03

acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:
acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:
acpro wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:Bravo. But my only comment here is to say that it was a "commitment ceremony" not a "marriage". It's only recently that gay males have been trying to ape heterosexual marriage.


lol not for nothing but I don't think anyone, including the article, or the title, which I plagiarized, used the word "marriage" which you're right is a legal contract.

I think you might be conflating "wedding" and "marriage" as the same thing, but since you quoted the word "'marriage,'" may I ask where you saw that term used? I don't see it. I see "wedding" which isn't a contract but rather the ceremony.


A wedding is by definition a marriage ceremony. The point here is that LGBT hacks will try to change the history of the queer struggle to fit their current campaign for monogamy and sexual exclusivity. That was never the goal of the gay rights movement.

Dictionary

wed·ding
/ˈwediNG/

noun
a marriage ceremony, especially considered as including the associated celebrations.
synonyms: marriage, marriage ceremony, wedding ceremony, nuptial ceremony, marriage service, wedding service, marriage rites, wedding rites, matrimony, holy matrimony, nuptials, union; More


I think in this example you knew what the LGBT center meant. They were using the term loosely and either way, you misquoted them by literally quoting the term "marriage" when you put it in quotes, while the term had never been used once. So HA. Criticise the LGBT center all you want but I wouldn't dare correct them, when I think they're doing a great thing...and like I said they never used the word "marriage" ... I know tons of people who hold "weddings" without an official piece of paper for a "marriage" and I think that's what they were going for. I get what you mean, but I don't even think it holds water, see my edit below, but it's just not the time or place to bring it up. We all know in the 1950's there weren't same sex weddings and the Center even used the term "commitment ceremony" so why go at them? I don't have a horse in the race, I merely copy and pasted what they wrote, I just think they shouldn't be subject to criticism, when doing a good thing, and technically you misquoted them by literally putting quotes around a term that they didn't use. That's called intellectual dishonesty.

EDIT:

And from Marriam Webster a Wedding is:
- : a marriage ceremony usually with its accompanying festivities : NUPTIALS

So the wedding is the marriage CEREMONY, not the marriage, which are two very distinct things. It's like saying a reception = marriage. But it's just a ceremony for a marriage, not the actual marriage.


Jeezus christ, such duplicity from the crowd who want the government in my queer ass bedroom. I put "marriage" in quotes for emphasis, because that's exactly what is implied when this commitment party is mislabeled as a wedding. No, that was not a wedding. We gay males have committed to our partners for centuries. But it was never an attempt to mimic breeders and marriage. Sorry, two strong independent males who commit to each other are not playing house and pretending to be hubby and wifey. That's a very recent attempt by monogamists and the anti-sex league to force us to conform.

The real issue here is discrimination by a homophobic society which refused to process photos of two men kissing. Our struggle is still to free ourselves from gay bashers with baseball bats and discrimination in and out of the workplace. How dare you try to make this part of your push for monogamy and sexual exclusivity in MY community. THAT WAS NOT A WEDDING.


Well I don't know too much about anything but I use italics for emphasis.

And you're right the real issue is the fact that the photos were not given to the grooms. However, not to be stickler for semantics, but they were processed and developed, just not delivered back. And honestly, we don't know why. In those days the photo place was a middleman. They sent the photos to a lab usually. In this case, the photos were even crimped. There's a lot of reasons why these photos might not have ended up in the hands of their owner....but all go back to homophobia.


Fair enough. Sorry if I became obsessed with the same-sex marriage issue. But I believe it's the greatest threat to queer liberation since sodomy laws.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby Eryx » 27 July 2019, 21:21

You're such an asshole. Maybe you should become a politician to fulfill your ardent desire to dictate other people's wants and needs. It's your fucking calling. Holy fucking shit.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 28 July 2019, 00:59

Eryx wrote:You're such an asshole. Maybe you should become a politician to fulfill your ardent desire to dictate other people's wants and needs. It's your fucking calling. Holy fucking shit.


Dude, you seem incapable of allowing other people to have a different opinion than you. Arguing my point is not dictating anything. Christ, who made you dictator here?
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby Eryx » 28 July 2019, 01:26

Have you got any mirrors in your house? Want me to look for one on Amazon for you?
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 28 July 2019, 02:00

Eryx wrote:Have you got any mirrors in your house? Want me to look for one on Amazon for you?


I'm very familiar with the tactics used by status quo gay fools on this issue. Sorry, some of us believe it's a mistake to have government-sponsored monogamy and sexual exclusivity foisted on us from the top down. You expect all gay people to agree with you and if they disagree you use disingenuous tactics to try and silence them. Sorry, every gay person doesn't have to agree with you.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby Yeauxleaux » 28 July 2019, 02:02

jimbo_xix wrote:We gay males have committed to our partners for centuries. But it was never an attempt to mimic breeders and marriage. Sorry, two strong independent males who commit to each other are not playing house and pretending to be hubby and wifey. That's a very recent attempt by monogamists and the anti-sex league to force us to conform.
You're fucking crazy.

Marriage is now an option for gay men if they want it. Nobody is "forcing you to conform", don't be so fucking ridiculous. You don't want marriage or a monogamous relationship? That's good for you darling, don't have one. There's more than enough gay men on Grindr who just want to fuck around for you to eat your heart out, and they're not going anywhere.

However marriage and monogamy IS the long-term goal some gay men want as individuals, who you do not speak for. That doesn't make them wrong, it doesn't make them "less authentically gay", it doesn't mean they have "internalised homophobia". If they wanted to mimic "breeders" then they'd actually do what "breeders" do and have a traditional straight marriage.

I never thought I'd see the day a gay man would oppose the option of marriage for gays who want it... like we say to straight bigots who oppose it... who does that harm exactly? Are you pressed that a gay man you wanted "got away" and is monogamous with someone else? I can't think of another reason you'd have to be this pressed.

Also all this talk about how "not every gay has to agree with X viewpoint" is undermined, when you accompany it by calling the ones you disagree with "status quo fools" who "want to mimic breeders and be anti-sex" or whatever. Again nobody is saying you can't fuck as many guys as you wanna fuck, go fuck 50 in one night if you want, I don't give a fuck, but marriage as an option for gays who want monogamy doesn't hurt you in looking for that. There's still going to be gay men who don't want serious commitment, just like there's straight men everywhere who feel that way.
Last edited by Yeauxleaux on 28 July 2019, 02:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 1950's Gay Wedding Photo Mystery

Unread postby Capt._Trips » 28 July 2019, 02:22

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