What are you thinking at the moment?

Talk about anything and everything.

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby OutsideIn » 20 August 2021, 21:23

Isn't that similar to what happened to PornHub?

Anyway, I have read a few bits about incels becoming violent because of their frustration, and I seriously wondered if legalizing prostitution would eliminate most of that problem.
OutsideIn
 
Posts: 429
+1s received: 254
Joined: 25 November 2020, 18:58
Location: Earth
Country: United States (us)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 20 August 2021, 21:29

Marmaduke wrote:
PopTart wrote:
rogonandi wrote:OnlyFans: “Tumblr did a porn ban two years ago and it completely destroyed their viewership and stock value but we’re sure that totally won’t happen to us…”

:rofl:
I know, right?

Apparantly, they didn't actually want to ban porn themselves, it was instead the result of pressure and threats from payment processors, like Visa etc. Who refused to process payments if Onlyfans continued to allow porn on it's site.

I don't really know why they would care, frankly. But it seems they do.

They care because an article came out where is was proven that Onlyfans was knowingly tolerating illegal content for profit. Where everywhere else that hosts porn, on child porn getting reported, the content is deleted and the user banned, Onlyfans had a policy which directed moderators to issue multiple warnings before deleting accounts.

Payment providers have no issue with porn. They love porn. They’ll always make money with porn. They do have an issue with facilitating pedophilia, sexual exploitation and knowing complacency with illegality for porn. They’re just going to court the next platform to come along and fill the gap.

Onlyfans

Now that I didn't know. I did find it bizarre that payment processors would be moralising over a multimillion pound revenue stream, for the sake of porn.

But if OnlyFans is lax with that sort of thing, I suppose it makes sense, but then, why throw the baby out with the bath water? (Edit: just realised this was an awful analogy, given the subject :facepalm2: )

I have never used onlyfans, am I missing much? I rather feel that given the abundance of "free" porn online, of decent quality, anyone asking me to pay for it, is perhaps just a tad too hopeful.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 20 August 2021, 21:47

OutsideIn wrote:Isn't that similar to what happened to PornHub?

Anyway, I have read a few bits about incels becoming violent because of their frustration, and I seriously wondered if legalizing prostitution would eliminate most of that problem.

I think just reminding them that sex isn’t an entitlement and then hitting them in the knees with a cricket bat would be a better solution.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 20 August 2021, 21:51

PopTart wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:
PopTart wrote:
rogonandi wrote:OnlyFans: “Tumblr did a porn ban two years ago and it completely destroyed their viewership and stock value but we’re sure that totally won’t happen to us…”

:rofl:
I know, right?

Apparantly, they didn't actually want to ban porn themselves, it was instead the result of pressure and threats from payment processors, like Visa etc. Who refused to process payments if Onlyfans continued to allow porn on it's site.

I don't really know why they would care, frankly. But it seems they do.

They care because an article came out where is was proven that Onlyfans was knowingly tolerating illegal content for profit. Where everywhere else that hosts porn, on child porn getting reported, the content is deleted and the user banned, Onlyfans had a policy which directed moderators to issue multiple warnings before deleting accounts.

Payment providers have no issue with porn. They love porn. They’ll always make money with porn. They do have an issue with facilitating pedophilia, sexual exploitation and knowing complacency with illegality for porn. They’re just going to court the next platform to come along and fill the gap.

Onlyfans

Now that I didn't know. I did find it bizarre that payment processors would be moralising over a multimillion pound revenue stream, for the sake of porn.

But if OnlyFans is lax with that sort of thing, I suppose it makes sense, but then, why throw the baby out with the bath water? (Edit: just realised this was an awful analogy, given the subject :facepalm2: )

I have never used onlyfans, am I missing much? I rather feel that given the abundance of "free" porn online, of decent quality, anyone asking me to pay for it, is perhaps just a tad too hopeful.

Payment processing companies aren’t short of money. They have an extremely favourable position of making money off of everyone else’s hard work or spending. They don’t need the association. As soon as something looks in any way damaging, it’s not worth staying associated with. They hold all the cards. They can hand down the ultimatum “stop doing that or we won’t let you process any income” and know that they’ll be believed, because they will walk away if you don’t stop and so will the rest of the industry.

Onlyfans finds itself with the choice of making a fraction of the money it once did or none at all, because payment processing is a closed game and it only stays that way if it looks after itself and presents a United front. Life is easier when you work together to maintain the status quo.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 20 August 2021, 21:59

Marmaduke wrote:Payment processing companies aren’t short of money. They have an extremely favourable position of making money off of everyone else’s hard work or spending. They don’t need the association. As soon as something looks in any way damaging, it’s not worth staying associated with. They hold all the cards. They can hand down the ultimatum “stop doing that or we won’t let you process any income” and know that they’ll be believed, because they will walk away if you don’t stop and so will the rest of the industry.

Onlyfans finds itself with the choice of making a fraction of the money it once did or none at all, because payment processing is a closed game and it only stays that way if it looks after itself and presents a United front. Life is easier when you work together to maintain the status quo.

Quite so, what surprises me, is that payment processors find anything all that damaging, precisely because of their stranglehold on financial transactions.

I'm also surprised that Onlyfans, didn't opt to step up it's moderation to levels comparable to other providers of adult content, rather than banning it outright.

Seems a tad extreme. Unless ofcourse they were given time enough to do so, did nothing and now payment processors have just decided to cut them off if they don't lose it all. Again, I would be surprised if, rich though they may be, even payment processors would turn aside any money, if a compromise could ensure they still got some pie.

Working in financials, you really see how the banks will query every penny, chase every pound and never fail to identify an opportunity to rub two together and get a third.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Severelius » 20 August 2021, 22:00

Marmaduke wrote:
OutsideIn wrote:Anyway, I have read a few bits about incels becoming violent because of their frustration, and I seriously wondered if legalizing prostitution would eliminate most of that problem.

I think just reminding them that sex isn’t an entitlement and then hitting them in the knees with a cricket bat would be a better solution.

This sounds reasonable.

Anyone who has managed to reach grown adulthood and thinks he's entitled to sex merely by the act of existing is probably already irreparably fucked beyond the point of being able to reform because that kind of toxic mentality runs deep.

Especially considering that while it's technically illegal... if you want to find a woman to fuck in exchange for cash you probably still can with not too much effort in this day and age. And if you're willing to murder people because you can't get your rocks off in the way you'd like, you probably don't care much for the strictures of legality anyway.
User avatar
Severelius
 
Posts: 4920
+1s received: 1281
Joined: 6 May 2014, 20:49
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 20 August 2021, 22:08

I'm not sure I buy into the narrative that incels biggest issue is the lack of vaginal action they are getting.

I suspect that alot more is going on there (none of it good, nor excusing being a crappy human being), connected to alot of other shit and the woman hating just happens to be the most salacious part about it.

There are alot of groups of men around the world who are becoming more withdrawn and isolated, different cultures see different expressions of this trend. I think incels are a more toxic expression of a deeper societal issue.

That guy in Portsmouth though. Pure crazy.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Severelius » 20 August 2021, 22:15

Oh yeah it's way more than just not getting laid.

There's some real deep-seated psychological fuckery going on, the lack of poontang is just a convenient excuse and framing device for their more toxic issues around gender politics and their own fucked up sense of superiority that leads them to believe they're entitled to stuff just because of who they are.

I mean I barely get laid at all, and it's very much everyone elses' choice but mine that such is the case, but I just jerk off while crying and then move on with my day.
User avatar
Severelius
 
Posts: 4920
+1s received: 1281
Joined: 6 May 2014, 20:49
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 20 August 2021, 22:27

:rofl:
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 20 August 2021, 22:44

PopTart wrote:I'm not sure I buy into the narrative that incels biggest issue is the lack of vaginal action they are getting.

I suspect that alot more is going on there (none of it good, nor excusing being a crappy human being), connected to alot of other shit and the woman hating just happens to be the most salacious part about it.

There are alot of groups of men around the world who are becoming more withdrawn and isolated, different cultures see different expressions of this trend. I think incels are a more toxic expression of a deeper societal issue.

That guy in Portsmouth though. Pure crazy.

No. Incels are a Reddit group. It’s shorthand for “involuntarily celibate”. They call themselves that. It really is that pathetically two dimensional. Hence the cricket bat approach.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 20 August 2021, 23:00

Marmaduke wrote:
PopTart wrote:I'm not sure I buy into the narrative that incels biggest issue is the lack of vaginal action they are getting.

I suspect that alot more is going on there (none of it good, nor excusing being a crappy human being), connected to alot of other shit and the woman hating just happens to be the most salacious part about it.

There are alot of groups of men around the world who are becoming more withdrawn and isolated, different cultures see different expressions of this trend. I think incels are a more toxic expression of a deeper societal issue.

That guy in Portsmouth though. Pure crazy.

No. Incels are a Reddit group. It’s shorthand for “involuntarily celibate”. They call themselves that. It really is that pathetically two dimensional. Hence the cricket bat approach.

I'm aware of the group.

But again, I suspect their ire is misplaced and the source is not dissimilar from a variety of other, young, disaffected, withdrawn, disenfranchised young men, found in multiple cultures the world over.

It's easy to demonise people, especially when they latch onto stupid ideas.

But the solution isn't to hobble all the idiots, tempting though it might be, but to investigate, understand and ameliorate the underlying causes.

Lest half the world wind up crawling around on broken legs.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 20 August 2021, 23:23

No, I think it’s probably just as constructive to not validate self-entitled men with an absolute absence of self-awareness lest any of them mistakenly form the impression that they’re not creepy little pricks shouting at a world that hasn’t given them everything on a vagina shaped plate.

If it was a societal issue, they’d be women shooting innocent bystanders and children. There aren’t. Because it’s a gross man problem rooted in them thinking women owe them sex.

Cricket bat. Both knees.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Derek » 21 August 2021, 00:56

What are the underlying causes of incels? Toxic masculinity and late-capitalist alienation? What immediate solution is at hand?
User avatar
Derek
 
Posts: 6966
+1s received: 2710
Joined: 21 December 2012, 02:12
Country: United States (us)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 21 August 2021, 06:51

Derek wrote:What are the underlying causes of incels? Toxic masculinity and late-capitalist alienation? What immediate solution is at hand?

Good question!

Best not to ask though, they are creepy and they do feel entitled to vagina dining because they have penises.

Cricket bat?
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 21 August 2021, 06:57

Marmaduke wrote:If it was a societal issue, they’d be women shooting innocent bystanders and children. There aren’t. Because it’s a gross man problem rooted in them thinking women owe them sex.

Cricket bat. Both knees.

Ah yes, because men and women express in identifical ways and even have identical experiences of society. That is why men are pushing for greater equality after centuries of oppression by their uterine overlords.

EDIT: I actually neglected to respond to your first point, which in truth is the more salient one, because I was too busy being glib :P
Marmaduke wrote:No, I think it’s probably just as constructive to not validate self-entitled men with an absolute absence of self-awareness lest any of them mistakenly form the impression that they’re not creepy little pricks shouting at a world that hasn’t given them everything on a vagina shaped plate.

I certainly don't seek to validate incel behaviour. People need to be held responsible for their choices in life, certainly. But at the same time, it is also far too easy to dismiss the underlying forces at work here, as simply being bad men, making selfish decisions.

That is not to say that bad men don't exist or that men (or anyone really) aren't capable of making selfish decisions and that they should be excused for doing so, no matter the root cause.

All that said, I think as a society, we do need to acknowledge where things might be going wrong. Why are so many men falling in with incel culture? What, if any connection might it have, with broader issues of declining mental health amongst young men? With other social trends that see more and more young men, around the globe, withdrawing from society and becoming increasinly isolated, failing to develop in healthy directions.

I get that people can feel very strongly about the seeming spitefulness, entitlement and hatred, emanating from incel subculture and the desire to exact social justice upon people, any people really, but especially those who actually deserve some justice being doled out in their direction.

But I'm not interested so much in punishing people who have clearly lost themselves to a toxic, self defeating and harmful outlook. I want to understand how they got there and how we might prevent other people, who might be feeling lost, confused or in some way, suffering, from finding their way to the same place.

I'm sure that some self righteous hobbling can be very cathartic and makes us all feel better about ourselves. But it doesn't do much to address the issues. Which I guess some people might be okay with. That just means there will be more call for hobbling later! :hitler:
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 21 August 2021, 08:04

I’m not looking for catharsis. I’m looking to avoid bestowing victimhood upon perpetrators so as to minimise their douchebaggery and blame their behaviour on society and not on them. We all live in the same society. I’ve had dry spells, and I’ve not had them manifest into a deep loathing of a society that has failed to give me what I think is my due. I don’t even want a gun, much less to take to the street shooting people out of bizarre horny rage. If I did, I’d be a much less menacing threat if someone broke my knees with a cricket bat and I needed crutches to walk.

Some people are cunts. It’s ok to accept that. People, especially in the internet age, find likeminded people. The only small mitigation I will grant them is that when they all come together, I know where all the cunts are.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 21 August 2021, 08:22

Marmaduke wrote:I’m not looking for catharsis. I’m looking to avoid bestowing victimhood upon perpetrators so as to minimise their douchebaggery and blame their behaviour on society and not on them. We all live in the same society. I’ve had dry spells, and I’ve not had them manifest into a deep loathing of a society that has failed to give me what I think is my due. I don’t even want a gun, much less to take to the street shooting people out of bizarre horny rage. If I did, I’d be a much less menacing threat if someone broke my knees with a cricket bat and I needed crutches to walk.

Some people are cunts. It’s ok to accept that. People, especially in the internet age, find likeminded people. The only small mitigation I will grant them is that when they all come together, I know where all the cunts are.

We are all victims of something, the error in modern thinking, is that being a victim is somehow empowering or that it should absolve one, of responsibility. That is an entirely different conversation. But a principle I don't hold to.

Are you an advocate for capital punishment?
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 21 August 2021, 08:45

Yeah. Some people are irredeemable, what they do isn’t forgivable and they can’t be rehabilitated. Should we do it with frequency? No. Should the option be there? Yes.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 21 August 2021, 09:26

Marmaduke wrote:Yeah. Some people are irredeemable, what they do isn’t forgivable and they can’t be rehabilitated. Should we do it with frequency? No. Should the option be there? Yes.

Thanks for being frank and answering the question seriously.

I'm inclined to agree. But in order to understand and know definitively, who is really irredeemable, and who is not, we must fully understand the origins and motivations, for their actions. We must allow for the possibility, that they are otherwise good people who have made bad choices, because they have succumbed to terrible ideas for, if not excusable or acceptable, then for understandable reasons. I grant that there will be some, for whom, there are no logical reasons, no real rationale that makes sense. Cunts, as you say. That said.

What may, on the surface be obvious, that Incels are all woman hating, entitled toxic men. May well not be the case. I'd like to be certain before marching them all off to the hanging tree. Because who we are as a consequence of that, should matter too.

Especially when we find ourselves in a period of human history, of fundamental societal change that only comes around once every thousand years or so. Great shifts in society, like those that are initiated by changes in the way we communicate or live, like the internet (and the printing press before it, or agriculture before that) can cause tremendous shocks in the social fabric. The difference between those times in the past and the here and now, is that we have access to the whole world and literal oceans of data, that would allow us to, for the first time, truly understand these changes as they take place and prevent some of the violence, chaos and death, that invariably come with them.

I honestly believe that in seeking an easy out, a simple answer, we do ourselves a wider disservice, because there are parallels with aspects of, for example, incel culture, hikikomori and their western equivelants. There is a wider problem here. I think it needs to be looked at.

Yes, those that turn to violence, who seek to harm others, must be held accountable, we must make it clear that there are standards by which, our societies should operate and we are all subject to them, regardless of all else. But that shouldn't lead to a kneejerk reaction of kneecapping everybody!
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3546
+1s received: 2755
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 21 August 2021, 09:45

It isn’t oversimplifying a solution, it’s affording more complexity to a problem than it’s due. Right and wrong at its core isn’t determined through the spirit of compromise and understanding. It isn’t difficult to grasp. Children know right from wrong before they can verbalise the words.

Incels aren’t acting to better the world, or promote societal change, they are lashing out out of spite and resentment. Regardless of the epoch of humanity, you lash out, you are stopped, you are tried by your peers, you fault is determined and you are punished. It has always been the way, it will always be the way. You are punished because spite and resentment are inevitable and unavoidable. There will always be those who resent others for what they do not have, the material thing that is absent is irrelevant. It is the choice to lash out that is punished and separate from the issue that motivated it. Society is complex. Justice is not. Right and wrong are simple and are determined on presentation of facts by the majority consensus.

Where the issue on trial is obvious and facile, so too should be the consequence. It can be found at the end of a 38 inch flat-fronted willow-wood blade attached to a cane handle.
User avatar
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 8358
+1s received: 3107
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

PreviousNext

Recently active
Users browsing this forum: acpro, CommonCrawl [Bot], DotNetDotCom.org [Bot], Yandex [Bot] and 125 guests