What are you thinking at the moment?

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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 31 March 2022, 05:31

rogonandi wrote:
PopTart wrote:Sounds like the two of you lack confidence and therefore resent those who have it.

You'd do better to work on your own self esteem and sense of self worth, than trying to justify your petty resentments and justifications for wanting to hurt those you envy.

Hey, I never said I actually followed through on it…though I must say that I know someone like you would never have to worry about such things. You are a 5 star man after all.
I can't tell if that's a catty remark or a genuine compliment. :shrug:

Either way, your dead wrong. I'm not perfect (obviously) my confidence isn't iron clad.

Do you think confident people are without insecurities? Do you think they don't face challenges, sometimes the same ones you do?

Some of those super confident, good looking people, spend huge amounts of time and effort, to look that good. Sometimes they don't look that good, but have a sense of self worth anyway, for other reasons.

It's true that some people who really seem like the ought not to be confident, because they lack looks, charm, competence or spirit, aren't really all that confident and just project it.

What matters is that, those who have a good sense of their own self worth, don't tend to spend much time, being bitter at those who others who do too. Though some dicksacks ridicule those that don't have confidence, usually because it reminds them of themselves when they felt the same way and resent the reminder.

The question you'd be better off asking Isn't, why do some people have confidence, deserved or not. But why don't you and what can you do, to remedy the issue?

Why don't you believe you have worth Daniel?
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby McTaggartfan » 31 March 2022, 05:49

PopTart wrote:
rogonandi wrote:
PopTart wrote:Sounds like the two of you lack confidence and therefore resent those who have it.

You'd do better to work on your own self esteem and sense of self worth, than trying to justify your petty resentments and justifications for wanting to hurt those you envy.

Hey, I never said I actually followed through on it…though I must say that I know someone like you would never have to worry about such things. You are a 5 star man after all.
I can't tell if that's a catty remark or a genuine compliment. :shrug:

Either way, your dead wrong. I'm not perfect (obviously) my confidence isn't iron clad.

Do you think confident people are without insecurities? Do you think they don't face challenges, sometimes the same ones you do?

Some of those super confident, good looking people, spend huge amounts of time and effort, to look that good. Sometimes they don't look that good, but have a sense of self worth anyway, for other reasons.

It's true that some people who really seem like the ought not to be confident, because they lack looks, charm, competence or spirit, aren't really all that confident and just project it.

What matters is that, those who have a good sense of their own self worth, don't tend to spend much time, being bitter at those who others who do too. Though some dicksacks ridicule those that don't have confidence, usually because it reminds them of themselves when they felt the same way and resent the reminder.

The question you'd be better off asking Isn't, why do some people have confidence, deserved or not. But why don't you and what can you do, to remedy the issue?

Why don't you believe you have worth Daniel?


Is Daniel his name? In any case, I much prefer it to a Christian name, as some have. :P
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby rogonandi » 31 March 2022, 06:04

The question you'd be better off asking Isn't, why do some people have confidence, deserved or not. But why don't you and what can you do, to remedy the issue?

Why don't you believe you have worth Daniel?


Because being told that I wasn’t worth anything was something I was told many times by peers growing up, and implied by people of authority. I could tell people were being disingenuous about it with me.

I do know that some people think I have some kind of developmental disability. I had a lot of trouble reading people and talking to them. I have learned to overcome this to some extent, but I don’t at all deserve confidence just for eventually approaching average ability. Everyone should be able to do this.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby McTaggartfan » 31 March 2022, 06:10

rogonandi wrote:
The question you'd be better off asking Isn't, why do some people have confidence, deserved or not. But why don't you and what can you do, to remedy the issue?

Why don't you believe you have worth Daniel?


Because being told that I wasn’t worth anything was something I was told many times by peers growing up, and implied by people of authority. I could tell people were being disingenuous about it with me.

I do know that some people think I have some kind of developmental disability. I had a lot of trouble reading people and talking to them. I have learned to overcome this to some extent, but I don’t at all deserve confidence just for eventually approaching average ability. Everyone should be able to do this.


While it's true that some, such as the scholastic and neo-scholastic philosophers of the Catholic (and especially Thomistic) tradition, would say you should be able to read people, and would also say you suffer from a deprivation as concerns a natural, active power, I don't think many would nowadays hold this same view. I certainly don't hold it. I had a similar difficulty as a child, so much so that my parents thought I was a case of high-functioning autism. That diagnosis didn't last and it turned out I was just weird, but either way it wouldn't have made a difference. You have a deficit in an area many people don't, so what? I've a learning disability in mathematics and around 87% of the population is better at math than I am. But I more than make up for it in the areas of reading and writing. I'm sure you've strengths, too! And in any case, it doesn't make you worthless. Far from it! To quote Edna St. Vincent Millay, in my mind "the light in your eyes" and that in most (if not all) of humanity, is "worth more to me than all the roses in the world."
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 31 March 2022, 18:05

rogonandi wrote:
The question you'd be better off asking Isn't, why do some people have confidence, deserved or not. But why don't you and what can you do, to remedy the issue?

Why don't you believe you have worth Daniel?


Because being told that I wasn’t worth anything was something I was told many times by peers growing up, and implied by people of authority. I could tell people were being disingenuous about it with me.

I do know that some people think I have some kind of developmental disability. I had a lot of trouble reading people and talking to them. I have learned to overcome this to some extent, but I don’t at all deserve confidence just for eventually approaching average ability. Everyone should be able to do this.

If you did have developmental issues, holding you back, then surely you have demonstrated determination and willpower, to catch up with people, who don't. Isn't that something that speaks highly of you? And maybe you just had a faltering start.

Everyone deserves to believe in themselves. It's not something you have to earn, that is the voice of those people telling you that your worthless, speaking through your insecurities.

Why give so much power to the words of people who clearly meant to hurt you? Who were they to judge?

In many ways, it could be argued, you were better than them, because you didn't resort to tearing other people down, in order to feel better about yourself. Do you really want to emulate them now? You are definately better than that Nandi.

And you have many qualities. I couldn't find my way around coding, to make a digital post it note app. Your building a game! EDIT: You're also able to hold down a long term, stable relationship with another person, something I seem incapable of doing. So there you have something else you have greater skill and experience of, than I and many other people.
Last edited by PopTart on 31 March 2022, 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 31 March 2022, 19:29

McTaggartfan wrote:But I thank you for expressing your concern, for indeed it might’ve been that I did resent those who displayed confidence (or overconfidence, since this is too often mistaken for justified confidence).
Does it matter if confidence is justified, if it doesn't hurt anyone?

If someone who is, generally speaking, ugly or repulsive to the vast majority of people, were confident in their appearance anyway, is that confidence justified? Probably not, but does that justify you then resenting them for it?

Now sure, if the over confidence is to be found in the brain surgeon about to fiddle with your grey matter... no, I'd want that person to be confident too, come to think of it. Better that than self doubt.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby rogonandi » 31 March 2022, 19:56

Thanks, PopTart. That gross ideology of tearing down other people’s confidence was the result of depression, exhaustion, and constant stinging leg and ankle pain. It’s not how I normally am.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 31 March 2022, 20:02

rogonandi wrote:Thanks, PopTart. That gross ideology of tearing down other people’s confidence was the result of depression, exhaustion, and constant stinging leg and ankle pain. It’s not how I normally am.
I know it's not :hug:

Another person I also care about, has the same ideation when they feel low. I don't think any of us are the best versions of ourselves all of the time or even much of it. It's especially hard to be that version of ourselves, when we are at our lowest ebb.

You are a good person and you are worth more than you give yourself credit for Daniel. You are handsome, kind, well intentioned and generous from what I can tell. You should believe in yourself more :hug:
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby Sullivan » 31 March 2022, 21:59

This popped up on my grid earlier:

Screen Shot 2022-03-31 at 11.50.32 PM.png


Do I reach out and ask if he's an attractive, intelligent 20-year-old just coming to terms with his sexuality?
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby rogonandi » 31 March 2022, 23:53

Sullivan wrote:This popped up on my grid earlier:

Screen Shot 2022-03-31 at 11.50.32 PM.png


Do I reach out and ask if he's an attractive, intelligent 20-year-old just coming to terms with his sexuality?

He is you, you just don’t realize it quite yet.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 1 April 2022, 04:39

Sullivan wrote:This popped up on my grid earlier:

Screen Shot 2022-03-31 at 11.50.32 PM.png


Do I reach out and ask if he's an attractive, intelligent 20-year-old just coming to terms with his sexuality?
Nah, he's probably an arrogant and conceited arsehole.

Low hanging fruit buddy. Best avoid.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby McTaggartfan » 1 April 2022, 21:33

PopTart wrote:
McTaggartfan wrote:But I thank you for expressing your concern, for indeed it might’ve been that I did resent those who displayed confidence (or overconfidence, since this is too often mistaken for justified confidence).
Does it matter if confidence is justified, if it doesn't hurt anyone?

If someone who is, generally speaking, ugly or repulsive to the vast majority of people, were confident in their appearance anyway, is that confidence justified? Probably not, but does that justify you then resenting them for it?

Now sure, if the over confidence is to be found in the brain surgeon about to fiddle with your grey matter... no, I'd want that person to be confident too, come to think of it. Better that than self doubt.


I'd be happy to have this discussion with you over the phone, as it is quite a lengthy and intricate one, but will not have it here. I lack the time and the energy to go into it over the computer.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 1 April 2022, 21:39

McTaggartfan wrote:
PopTart wrote:
McTaggartfan wrote:But I thank you for expressing your concern, for indeed it might’ve been that I did resent those who displayed confidence (or overconfidence, since this is too often mistaken for justified confidence).
Does it matter if confidence is justified, if it doesn't hurt anyone?

If someone who is, generally speaking, ugly or repulsive to the vast majority of people, were confident in their appearance anyway, is that confidence justified? Probably not, but does that justify you then resenting them for it?

Now sure, if the over confidence is to be found in the brain surgeon about to fiddle with your grey matter... no, I'd want that person to be confident too, come to think of it. Better that than self doubt.


I'd be happy to have this discussion with you over the phone, as it is quite a lengthy and intricate one, but will not have it here. I lack the time and the energy to go into it over the computer.

Fair enough.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby rogonandi » 1 April 2022, 22:47

I’ve lately been thinking about giving up junk food and taking up smoking again since quitting smoking was not a matter of health, and especially not about wanting to quit, but money. Even after quitting nine months ago I still miss it a lot and crave the ritual.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 1 April 2022, 23:02

rogonandi wrote:I’ve lately been thinking about giving up junk food and taking up smoking again since quitting smoking was not a matter of health, and especially not about wanting to quit, but money. Even after quitting nine months ago I still miss it a lot and crave the ritual.
If your going too, switch to rolling tobacco rather than premade straights. It's slightly less harmful and should be cheaper. Ofcourse, I think you would be making a mistake, but that might be my envy speaking.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby rogonandi » 2 April 2022, 00:58

PopTart wrote:
rogonandi wrote:I’ve lately been thinking about giving up junk food and taking up smoking again since quitting smoking was not a matter of health, and especially not about wanting to quit, but money. Even after quitting nine months ago I still miss it a lot and crave the ritual.
If your going too, switch to rolling tobacco rather than premade straights. It's slightly less harmful and should be cheaper. Ofcourse, I think you would be making a mistake, but that might be my envy speaking.

Oh dear lord you’re envious of me? ME? :P
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby McTaggartfan » 2 April 2022, 05:44

PopTart wrote:
McTaggartfan wrote:But I thank you for expressing your concern, for indeed it might’ve been that I did resent those who displayed confidence (or overconfidence, since this is too often mistaken for justified confidence).
Does it matter if confidence is justified, if it doesn't hurt anyone?

If someone who is, generally speaking, ugly or repulsive to the vast majority of people, were confident in their appearance anyway, is that confidence justified? Probably not, but does that justify you then resenting them for it?

Now sure, if the over confidence is to be found in the brain surgeon about to fiddle with your grey matter... no, I'd want that person to be confident too, come to think of it. Better that than self doubt.


Now just to be clear, once and for all, I do not resent anyone for their (over)confidence. In some cases I certainly may disapprove of a person's overconfidence, but I do not disapprove of anyone for her justifiable confidence. If someone was simply and justifiably confident, but appeared to me to be overconfident, I might then disapprove of what I perceived to be her overconfidence; yet were I subsequently to discover that I had erred insofar as what I had thought was overconfidence was actually justifiable confidence, then I would cease to disapprove. But regardless of my approval or disapproval, I resent none on account of either their confidence or the degree of it.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 2 April 2022, 08:31

rogonandi wrote:
PopTart wrote:
rogonandi wrote:I’ve lately been thinking about giving up junk food and taking up smoking again since quitting smoking was not a matter of health, and especially not about wanting to quit, but money. Even after quitting nine months ago I still miss it a lot and crave the ritual.
If your going too, switch to rolling tobacco rather than premade straights. It's slightly less harmful and should be cheaper. Ofcourse, I think you would be making a mistake, but that might be my envy speaking.

Oh dear lord you’re envious of me? ME? :P
I would love to smoke again :cry: That you can, yes. I envy that.

I'm not trying to encourage you to take up smoking, but I do wonder which is worse for someone, the bad diet that giving up can lead too or the smoking that preceded it. Any studies on that?

McTaggartfan wrote:
PopTart wrote:
McTaggartfan wrote:But I thank you for expressing your concern, for indeed it might’ve been that I did resent those who displayed confidence (or overconfidence, since this is too often mistaken for justified confidence).
Does it matter if confidence is justified, if it doesn't hurt anyone?

If someone who is, generally speaking, ugly or repulsive to the vast majority of people, were confident in their appearance anyway, is that confidence justified? Probably not, but does that justify you then resenting them for it?

Now sure, if the over confidence is to be found in the brain surgeon about to fiddle with your grey matter... no, I'd want that person to be confident too, come to think of it. Better that than self doubt.


Now just to be clear, once and for all, I do not resent anyone for their (over)confidence. In some cases I certainly may disapprove of a person's overconfidence, but I do not disapprove of anyone for her justifiable confidence. If someone was simply and justifiably confident, but appeared to me to be overconfident, I might then disapprove of what I perceived to be her overconfidence; yet were I subsequently to discover that I had erred insofar as what I had thought was overconfidence was actually justifiable confidence, then I would cease to disapprove. But regardless of my approval or disapproval, I resent none on account of either their confidence or the degree of it.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby pozzie » 2 April 2022, 19:20

What next? I never wanted to quit heroin so I've decided to give up excessive drinking and return to shooting up?
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Re: What are you thinking at the moment?

Unread postby PopTart » 2 April 2022, 21:56

pozzie wrote:What next? I never wanted to quit heroin so I've decided to give up excessive drinking and return to shooting up?

Yeah, I get how you might think that. But my thinking comes from the long term health implications of obesity and bad eating habits, which could be just as detrimental as long term smoking.

We know more of the negatives of smoking, respiratory and circulatory systems being well mapped and understood.

Diet however and the consequences of diet are still rather poorly understood. With obesity and poor diet being linked to all manner of negative effects from reduced cognitive ability, to shortened lifespans, diabetes, cancers and a multitude of other things.

Ex'smokers often transfer one oral fixation for another. Sublimating one craving for another. Which can lead from one unhealthy lifestyle choice to another.

Hence my musing, which is worse I wonder? If an individual found themselves wondering, which poison should they pick? Which is the one with the least harm?
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