What made you laugh today?

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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby erti » 12 April 2020, 10:25

PopTart wrote:I should also add, incase anyone feels attacked, as I know there are people here, who do indeed suffer from mental health issues, who do use the forum as a means of releasing some of the pressure of their emotional and mental hardships. I'm not suggesting that those of you who do, are "fake" I hope you would know me well enough to know that isn't who I am and I also hope that this particular conversation, doesn't make you feel, like you can no longer express yourself in that fashion here.

I don't think that has been the intention of any participant in this discussion.

:hug:


Yeah, I’ll admit... I use the forum as a release of my mental health and what the hell is going on in real life because I’m looking for support and I do take advice when given. hate to be someone who doesn’t take advice and complain about the situation being different. Then again sometimes I’m not looking for advice but someone to say we’re going to be alright.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 10:31

I know I'm not one with the strongest of grounding to criticise someone for an excessively loquatious response, but Jesus fuck that's a lot of wasted language to stay within reach of the fence in an argument you aren't actually on the fence about. Spend less time trying to overtly advertise a sense of balance and more time concisely making your point. It's outright difficult to get through.

Let me respond on two fronts.

Firstly, I would like to again encourage a distinction between attention seeking behaviour and "wearing your mental health issues on your sleeve". Attention seeking behaviour, as you are obviously railing against, is foundational to the modern social media web of interaction. Why is me posting on facebook that I went to a bar, or posting a holiday photo on instagram, or otherwise "flexing" on social media apparently unchalleneged and wholly accepted? Why is this an acceptable means of garnering likes, support, encouragement or an elevation of social standing? Where is the demarcation? If it's not, why are you singling out those with mental health issues within that sphere and not challenging the behaviour in general? Is it just because someone is sad and, you being unsympathetic, that's annoying to you? Why can't you ignore it and let them take from it what they're looking to? Who are you to enforce upon someone else how best they should seek validation?

Secondly, on the broader point of people discussing mental health, what's the point of demarcation at which someone's desire to feel seen and acknowledged carries sufficient psychiatric merit to have it be valid? Say, for instance, I'm a person in a deeply conservative social standing which it is currently beyond my ability to be free of. A child, or dependent. Within my circle, I do not feel at all comfortable talking about issues, I don't feel that there is support or understanding there. I don't feel seen, and thus I feel worthless. I feel like I don't matter and the world wouldn't notice if I was gone. What I do find helpful is from time to time posting online, on a community such as this, about my thoughts or feelings. I'm not doing it to make change, I'm not doing it to resolve my issues. I'm doing it simply for the therapeutic benefit of knowing that someone, somewhere has seen me. Someone knows I exist and knows how I feel. That provides me relief. Why am I now being discouraged from seeking it? What negative does this cause anyone else that they can't simply choose not to engage with? Heaven forfend, just on the off-chance, there's someone else in my position who doesn't have the courage to make even the small steps I'm making. Who sees what I post and realises that they're not alone in how they feel, even if they don't acknowledge me or say so.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 10:56

I find it a bit strange that you go after someone for posting fake photos of shoes for attention but seem to be okay with the legions of people with Munchausen by Internet syndrome because it may help someone who does legitimately have whatever illness is being feigned.

I, for one, as someone who suffers from several comorbid psychological/neurological disorders, have never once felt one bit of relief or positivity when coming across people wearing the same disorders on their sleeve. If anything, it often feels cheap and like they're either faking it for attention or they have comorbid histrionic personality disorder. Unless they're someone who is putting forward useful ways they're coping with the shared disorder, such as a particular YouTuber I know with ADHD, I really feel sickened by their cringey behaviour.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:00

Brenden wrote:I find it a bit strange that you go after someone for posting fake photos of shoes for attention but seem to be okay with the legions of people with Munchausen by Internet syndrome because it may help someone who does legitimately have whatever illness is being feigned.


I challenge people when they lie. If I don't think they're lying, I don't challenge them. I don't see that that's strange. Would you care to elaborate?

Brenden wrote:I, for one, as someone who suffers from several comorbid psychological/neurological disorders, have never once felt one bit of relief or positivity when coming across people wearing the same disorders on their sleeve. If anything, it often feels cheap and like they're either faking it for attention or they have comorbid histrionic personality disorder. Unless they're someone who is putting forward useful ways they're coping with the shared disorder, such as a particular YouTuber I know with ADHD.

Oh ok, so because you personally don't appreciate it, nobody would appreciate it? That's your position? You don't see that as arrogant at it's most flatering?

What about if I retort that often I can empathise with people discussing their issues? My position is wholly invalid because it doesn't align with your personal experience? Are you wholly devoid of empathy, is that it? Are you arguing the position from a counter-position of being a sociopath?
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby René » 12 April 2020, 11:02

This performance is getting so intense, I'm on the edge of my seat.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:04

Marmaduke wrote:Oh ok, so because you personally don't appreciate it, nobody would appreciate it? That's your position?

No, that's not my position. I was just giving my own perspective, not saying it's universal.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:05

Brenden wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:Oh ok, so because you personally don't appreciate it, nobody would appreciate it? That's your position?

No, that's not my position. I was just giving my own perspective, not saying it's universal.

So what was your point?
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:07

It just seems to me the vast majority of the people who wear mental illness on their selves are lying to some degree.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:07

Brenden wrote:It just seems to me the vast majority of the people who wear mental illness on their selves are lying to some degree.

Based on what?
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:09

Based on my first-hand experience of the mental illnesses they supposedly have and wear on their sleeves.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:10

Brenden wrote:Based on my first-hand experience of the mental illnesses they supposedly have and wear on their sleeves.

So, in your opinion, if you can't reconcile it with your own experience then it must be false?
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:12

No, but all we have to go by when judging anything is extrapolation of our own experiences.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:16

I find it ironic that you're so defensive of people who share their experiences of mental illness, yet you are belittling my experience.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:19

Brenden wrote:No, but all we have to go by when judging anything is extrapolation of our own experiences.

No, that's bullshit. I'm not asking you how the process of you attempting to reconcile their experience against yours progressed.

You are saying that the vast majority of people wearing their mental health issues on their sleeve appear to you to be liars. You didn't say a lot, you didn't say most, you said the vast majority. You have clearly extrapolated your experiences against a great many accounts. A vast amount. You concluded that they all appear to be lying.

I don't understand how we can have that be the case, and simultaneously have it not be the case that if it doesn't correlate with your extrapolated experience then it must be false?

You seem to be at a fundamental contradiction.

If I might posit an alternate theory? Would it not be fair to perhaps suggest that you've woken up this morning, felt a little reddity yourself, seen an apportunity and decided to throw some hate out into the world under the guise of intellectual free speech to seek personal fulfilment or a sense of aggrandisement?
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:20

Brenden wrote:I find it ironic that you're so defensive of people who share their experiences of mental illness, yet you are belittling my experience.

I find it outright hypocritical that you'll bemoan me confronting you to defend the freedom of others to speak openly of their experiences, and simultaneously deride me for not defending you against yourself.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:28

Might I put forward a hypothesis that the lockdown is making you ornery? :lol:
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby PopTart » 12 April 2020, 11:28

Marmaduke wrote:I know I'm not one with the strongest of grounding to criticise someone for an excessively loquatious response, but Jesus fuck that's a lot of wasted language to stay within reach of the fence in an argument you aren't actually on the fence about. Spend less time trying to overtly advertise a sense of balance and more time concisely making your point. It's outright difficult to get through.

Hey! I like being talkative :P and your quite right, your one for being verbose, as you have confessed! :D Hypocrit. :lol:

But your completely right, in that I do go about the houses, I take the scenic route, which is no doubt annoying for many but thats more because, thats how I tend to arrive at conclusions. I'm not direct and yes, while I wasn't aiming to advertise my desire for balance, I have a deep rooted personal philosophy that revolves around it. It's important to me, its central to my reasoning in most things and causes no end of annoyance for other people :shrug: I'm not about to change that, because it is, in part, my ideas on balance, that helped save me from a period of near self destruction in my turbulent past. ;)

Marmaduke wrote:Let me respond on two fronts.
If you must, I've never had much capacity for dividing my attention and I must say, I feel this is some manner of conversational gambit, you needn't have bothered with mind you, your bound to "win" :D

Marmaduke wrote:Firstly, I would like to again encourage a distinction between attention seeking behaviour and "wearing your mental health issues on your sleeve". Attention seeking behaviour, as you are obviously railing against, is foundational to the modern social media web of interaction. Why is me posting on facebook that I went to a bar, or posting a holiday photo on instagram, or otherwise "flexing" on social media apparently unchalleneged and wholly accepted? Why is this an acceptable means of garnering likes, support, encouragement or an elevation of social standing? Where is the demarcation? If it's not, why are you singling out those with mental health issues within that sphere and not challenging the behaviour in general? Is it just because someone is sad and, you being unsympathetic, that's annoying to you? Why can't you ignore it and let them take from it what they're looking to? Who are you to enforce upon someone else how best they should seek validation?
Oh I do challenge the shift in social priorities with the advent of social media, I believe that social media, while having some benefits, has a net negative effect on modern soceity. It's just few people are willing to entertain the idea, it's far too useful, convenient and has too many superficial surface benefits, for people to want to take a serious look and undertake real change, should it be found to be as negative as some suspect. There is little apetite for discussion on the matter and even if there were, I'm not entirely certain I'm upto the task, though I'll try.

As such, the best we can do, is try to formulate "damage mitigation" approaches to it's uses. Today, in the world of publication, we have well established societal checks and balances to aid readers in identifying truth from fiction, good information from bad, it's not perfect, but it's there and perhaps with time, this new medium of digital social interaction will develop along the same lines, but it isn't there yet. It's still too new, it's still evolving and it's orders of magnitude more complex, it might never get there.

While I can understand how you conflate mental health in this instance, with the above arguement, since it's the starting point of the conversation, I think, this is merely a spur or a wider arguement and no-one is homing in, specifically on mental health as such, but the unhealthy tendency of people to fail in the recognition, of their own social responsibility. Of which, utilising the suffering of others, for your own benefit, is neither healthy nor socially acceptable.

The real issue I suppose, is the lack of social responsibility on online, digital identity and presence? I dunno. But I think this goes to social conduct, social responsibility and the like.


Marmaduke wrote:Secondly, on the broader point of people discussing mental health, what's the point of demarcation at which someone's desire to feel seen and acknowledged carries sufficient psychiatric merit to have it be valid?
I think this is a great question and it definately needs answering. I'm going to admit, I don't have that answer, I don't know if anyone does, instead, we are all feeling it out as we go.


Marmaduke wrote:Say, for instance, I'm a person in a deeply conservative social standing which it is currently beyond my ability to be free of. A child, or dependent. Within my circle, I do not feel at all comfortable talking about issues, I don't feel that there is support or understanding there. I don't feel seen, and thus I feel worthless. I feel like I don't matter and the world wouldn't notice if I was gone. What I do find helpful is from time to time posting online, on a community such as this, about my thoughts or feelings. I'm not doing it to make change, I'm not doing it to resolve my issues. I'm doing it simply for the therapeutic benefit of knowing that someone, somewhere has seen me. Someone knows I exist and knows how I feel. That provides me relief. Why am I now being discouraged from seeking it? What negative does this cause anyone else that they can't simply choose not to engage with? Heaven forfend, just on the off-chance, there's someone else in my position who doesn't have the courage to make even the small steps I'm making. Who sees what I post and realises that they're not alone in how they feel, even if they don't acknowledge me or say so.
Oh, absolutey, this is a perfect example of how I think many people do indeed utilise this site and others and I'm not advocating against that. I think this is both healthy and beneficial and does alot for many people, I can think of a few here who may have benefited from such and I go on record as saying, please, if it helps, continue, don't be discouraged.

I also have to acknowledge, that different people, are ready to move beyond and overcome their mental health issues, at different times or at different rates, hence the reason, I might offer positive encouragement, but I never demand they accept it. To do so would be objectionable in the least. Harmful at the worst. :nono: But we must make clear, that there is a route out, there is, light at the end of the tunnel.

That then is perhaps, the litmus test by which, I feel we must demand some measure of social responsibility, is what I'm/this other person, posting hurting anyone else? Doing harm to someone else?

If we had an IRL, depression support group meeting, in which 10 people attended and 9 of those 10 people were genuine sufferers of mental health problems, but that other 1, was pretending, because they get a boost from recieving attention, we would be thoroughly angered by that. We could argue that person too, has a mental health issue, that they need help with, but we would also agree, that they have done something ultimately, underhanded and morally wrong. Now add a bunch of cameras to that room and an audience in the tens of thousands and we acknowledge that, the 1 faker, was doing what they did, for attention from that audience. Perhaps, recieving support, that might have otherwise gone to people, for whom it would have been more beneficial or constructive. Is that not wrong? Would we not object? We might admit, this 1 faker, has some pretty serious issues of their own, but does it excuse the deception? I agree, there is a challnge, even here, on where the demarcation lies.

But if it is unacceptable in a real world setting, why should it be acceptable in a digital one? If we have a social responsibility in real life, why not in our social media presence?
Last edited by PopTart on 12 April 2020, 11:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 12 April 2020, 11:29

Brenden wrote:Might I put forward a hypothesis that the lockdown is making you ornery? :lol:

Oh the lockdown is definitely a factor. Where previously other distractions in my life would take up my time and my interest and I would read things like this and leave the arguing to someone else, I now have no such distractions and find myself quite motivated.

Am I to take this as a concession?
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Brenden » 12 April 2020, 11:43

I concede nothing! NEVER.
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Re: What made you laugh today?

Unread postby Severelius » 12 April 2020, 11:44

I... I really didn't mean to start all this by posting that tweet I got a chuckle out of....
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