What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today?

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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby GearFetTwinkRomance » 4 January 2020, 16:49

poolerboy0077 wrote:Justin just released the worst song from his upcoming album. His Purpose Album had some fillers in there that were whatever but at least he and his team had the good sense not to lead with them when enticing others to listen. How do you go from “you give me purpose” (2015) to “that yummy yummy” (2020)?!


He should not have toured Germany, I guess. That's what happens if they visit Europe, they probably sent him to yummy-yummy-restaurants:
https://www.restaurant-yummy-yummy.de/
:D

And there's that certain quality reduction factor, that will affect a lot of musicians and singers really, after they have become the slaves of fame-.Their work often will take a quality reduction slope down. It can't be just the dope. Else Snoop dog would be all but brain fries by now ... well, he did some weird mindless songs, too.

Justin should have gone to have some fun with cute Nash Grier instead - I mean, boyz gotta play and those things. So might also be the girly influence going on, that makes for mushy creativity. Mushy like... well there's a German word that sounds a bit like that, "Muschi", but it's meaning is more like the lair of female tentacles ...uhm ... hence the mushy reference :noes:

( I hope that wasn't too sexist or something-ist

Loosing faith in humanity ... all done long ago, but things I read in the news lately. I hope nobody deliberately starts up wars and that like. And someone having been murdered in Toronto, happens to Trans people more often, or would seem like that. They seem to be the new scape goat of hate or something.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 21 January 2020, 21:00

I really hate it when people eat at their workstation. Take your food to the lounge!
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 25 January 2020, 14:39

The biggest mistake in fashion right now is 90s nostalgia. Baggy pants don’t need to make a comeback. Somethings just need to be left in their grave.
Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Eos » 26 January 2020, 18:56

Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.
It didn't pisses me off but it just feels like talking to a wall, it's sad.

I've been very diplomatic, I've been insulted (and I didn't insult them back). I've been responding to their point with my knowledge, and they just answer you with unrelated point without even considering they might be wrong. I even gave them a link to a scientific article but I doubt they will even read it.

It's easier to stand to an opinion (which isn't even one) than admitting a fault.

It's always the same thing with the internet even for lightier subject.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Derek » 26 January 2020, 19:01

Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.
It didn't pisses me off but it just feels like talking to a wall, it's sad.

I live in a less progressive country than you and I don't think I could find people like that without specifically seeking them out online.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Eos » 26 January 2020, 19:33

You mean I was looking for trouble ? ^^
Not at all, I was on 9gag
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Brenden » 26 January 2020, 21:26

Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.

Well… at least three of those four initials don't. Thinking you're something you're not is indicative of mental illness. It's called a delusion. There's a reason "gender dysphoria" (gender identity disorder as the DSM IV more correctly identified) is very frequently comorbid with (other) psychotic disorders.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby René » 26 January 2020, 21:33

Brenden wrote:
Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.

Well… at least three of those four initials don't. Thinking you're something you're not is indicative of mental illness. It's called a delusion. There's a reason "gender dysphoria" (gender identity disorder as the DSM IV more correctly identified) is very frequently comorbid with psychotic disorders.

They should never have been grouped together. It's like... which of the following items doesn't belong?

  • Women who are attracted to members of the same sex
  • Men who are attracted to members of the same sex
  • Men and women who are attracted to members of same and opposite sex
  • People who think they were born in the wrong body and want hormonal and/or surgical interventions to change their bodies to reflect the way they feel they were meant to be
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 26 January 2020, 21:55

Derek wrote:
Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.
It didn't pisses me off but it just feels like talking to a wall, it's sad.

I live in a less progressive country than you and I don't think I could find people like that without specifically seeking them out online.

Nine years ago a diversity trainer came to a college ethics course and posed a question of whether they thought homosexuality was due to mental illness or a mental illness itself and like six hands went up. I wonder whether they’ve changed heir mind or whether they still think it’s a mental illness, just one in which they a) think it should receive compassion rather than scorn and revulsion and b) not be honest about your answer in public.
Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
Ramzus: I can admit that I'm horny just about 24/7
homomorphism: I used to not think your name was deshay and that Erick was just being racist
Hunter: sometimes I think I was literally born to be a pornstar
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Derek » 26 January 2020, 22:05

René wrote:
Brenden wrote:
Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.

Well… at least three of those four initials don't. Thinking you're something you're not is indicative of mental illness. It's called a delusion. There's a reason "gender dysphoria" (gender identity disorder as the DSM IV more correctly identified) is very frequently comorbid with psychotic disorders.

They should never have been grouped together. It's like... which of the following items doesn't belong?

  • Women who are attracted to members of the same sex
  • Men who are attracted to members of the same sex
  • Men and women who are attracted to members of same and opposite sex
  • People who think they were born in the wrong body and want hormonal and/or surgical interventions to change their bodies to reflect the way they feel they were meant to be

It's a political designation, not a scientific one. You could argue that we have different interests, but solidarity between LGB and T people was a formative part of the gay rights movement. Stonewall is a case in point.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Magic J » 26 January 2020, 22:10

Brenden wrote:There's a reason "gender dysphoria" is very frequently comorbid with (other) psychotic disorders.

Bisexuality is also frequently associated with psychological, eh, troubles, particularly the so called "personality disorder" BPD, which psychologists record as being exhibited in higher instances in bisexual people. Are we therefore to assume that bisexuality is best understood as a symptom of disrupted personality development?

I'm not trying to be snide at all, just curious about your position.

Myself, I dunno about the whole heavily medicalised aspect of how some currently think of this phenomenon. I mean, it used to be commonly believed that gay men were suffering from some sort of narcissistic personality disorder in need of treatment (there's some great reading to be had on the sordid history of that particular label). Dark territory. I'm reluctant to use a framework that sees an individual's sexual or gender expression as a medical issue.

René wrote:They should never have been grouped together.

Surely one could reply that, whatever the differences between them, they were grouped together by the society they lived/live in, meeting at the same places, part of a shared culture, etc. The grouping could be seen as based in a historical phenomenon, rather than behavioural ones. There's also, I imagine, a great amount of overlap between the groups, i.e, many trans people would be considered homosexual prior to transitioning.

But I dunno, it's not something I've really talked to many trans people about.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Derek » 26 January 2020, 22:16

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Derek wrote:
Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.
It didn't pisses me off but it just feels like talking to a wall, it's sad.

I live in a less progressive country than you and I don't think I could find people like that without specifically seeking them out online.

Nine years ago a diversity trainer came to a college ethics course and posed a question of whether they thought homosexuality was due to mental illness or a mental illness itself and like six hands went up. I wonder whether they’ve changed heir mind or whether they still think it’s a mental illness, just one in which they a) think it should receive compassion rather than scorn and revulsion and b) not be honest about your answer in public.

Does it matter, though? In a certain context, it's not wrong to classify homosexuality as a mental illness, because it's a pattern of aberrant mentality and behavior that impedes a person's ability to function, and maintain their own mental health, in a society hostile to that behavior. Whether you classify it as such really is just a function of how people want to frame the discussion in terms they feel are appropriately stigmatized.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Brenden » 26 January 2020, 22:30

Derek wrote:You could argue that we have different interests, but solidarity between LGB and T people was a formative part of the gay rights movement. Stonewall is a case in point.

Are drag queens who identified as homosexual now retroactively considered transsexual to fit this narrative?

MagicJ wrote:Bisexuality is also frequently associated with psychological, eh, troubles, particularly the so called "personality disorder" BPD, which psychologists record as being exhibited in higher instances in bisexual people. Are we therefore to assume that bisexuality is best understood as a symptom of disrupted personality development?

Bisexuality doesn't itself involve a delusion about one's very nature.

MagicJ wrote:Myself, I dunno about the whole heavily medicalised aspect of how some currently think of this phenomenon. I mean, it used to be commonly believed that gay men were suffering from some sort of narcissistic personality disorder in need of treatment (there's some great reading to be had on the sordid history of that particular label). Dark territory. I'm reluctant to use a framework that sees an individual's sexual or gender expression as a medial issue.

"Gender expression" — as in, simply how one carries and expresses oneself in one's natural body, is one thing. Feeling that you are in the wrong body and wanting that to be rectified with drastic chemical and surgical changes to that body is something else entirely. It is very much in line with body dysmorphic disorder, anorexia nervosa, and other obsessive-compulsive spectrum disorders.

Several studies have found that 60-90% of gender dysphoric youth grow up to desist completely of their own accord if allowed to pass through puberty unmolested (no radical hormone therapy and other crap) and most of them turn out to be homosexual (and happy). Meanwhile, a large and long-term followup study of transsexuals who have transitioned in Sweden (!) of all places (one of the most tolerant and accepting countries on Earth) have suicide rates 20 times that of the general population.

Conservative treatment of gender dysphoria / gender identity disorder should entail simple therapy to accept their natural body as it is and work through their dysphoria. I find it absolutely crazy that we had and have to fight for LGB youth not to undergo conversion therapy but meanwhile trans "rights" activities are pushing for immediate access to drastic hormonal and surgical conversion therapy of people — and even children — who show even the slightest amount of gender dysphoria.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Derek » 26 January 2020, 22:38

Brenden wrote:
Derek wrote:You could argue that we have different interests, but solidarity between LGB and T people was a formative part of the gay rights movement. Stonewall is a case in point.

Are drag queens who identified as homosexual now retroactively considered transsexual to fit this narrative?

If you don't like that example, pick any other. Unless your argument is that LGB and T people haven't worked together to find mainstream acceptance?
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Magic J » 26 January 2020, 23:27

Brenden wrote:Are drag queens who identified as homosexual now retroactively considered transsexual to fit this narrative?

Apologies for jumping in, but there were indeed some people who had had sex reassignment surgery at the Stonewall riots, as far as I have read. There's an essay I can fish out somewhere round here, but effort... The report said that the police would arrest everyone they believed to be cross-dressing, releasing those who proved to have undergone reassignment surgery and booking the rest!

Brenden wrote:Bisexuality doesn't itself involve a delusion about one's very nature.

Nevertheless, it's not particularly uncommon to hear the opinion that bisexuality is, at root, some kind of disordered expression of sexuality and/or attraction. Perhaps a delusion, even, in the more layman sense. The study "Straight, Gay, or Lying" is instructive here, if a bit out of date for academic studies.

Brenden wrote:I find it absolutely crazy that we had and have to fight for LGB youth not to undergo conversion therapy but meanwhile trans "rights" activities are pushing for immediate access to drastic hormonal and surgical conversion therapy of people — and even children — who show even the slightest amount of gender dysphoria.

Yeah, sure, this does trouble me somewhat, in ways that I can't really express without sounding like a total monster. I'm not really sure that a child can adequately consent to such procedures. I'd like to live in a world in which people are free to express themselves in the way they feel comfortable or best exemplifies them, and if gender non-conforming people are undergoing surgical and chemical procedures so as to fit themselves into more socially acceptable categories, to "fix" themselves, then that's a collective failure. However, I'm just not sure that this is the defining thought pattern of many who choose this.

I don't think hormone therapy or surgical reassignment can be seen as directly analogous to gay conversion therapy. Nobody is forcibly compelled into it, for instance. I'm sure some transgender people view it as "fixing" themselves, but I also know many who do not view it in this way. You'd really need to talk to some of them, though, I just talk shit with them and borrow their makeup sometimes. :P
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 January 2020, 00:52

Derek wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
Derek wrote:
Eos wrote:Today I tried to convince some people that LGBT people don't have a mental illness.
It didn't pisses me off but it just feels like talking to a wall, it's sad.

I live in a less progressive country than you and I don't think I could find people like that without specifically seeking them out online.

Nine years ago a diversity trainer came to a college ethics course and posed a question of whether they thought homosexuality was due to mental illness or a mental illness itself and like six hands went up. I wonder whether they’ve changed heir mind or whether they still think it’s a mental illness, just one in which they a) think it should receive compassion rather than scorn and revulsion and b) not be honest about your answer in public.

Does it matter, though? In a certain context, it's not wrong to classify homosexuality as a mental illness, because it's a pattern of aberrant mentality and behavior that impedes a person's ability to function, and maintain their own mental health, in a society hostile to that behavior. Whether you classify it as such really is just a function of how people want to frame the discussion in terms they feel are appropriately stigmatized.

Oh so being a fag is the anorexia nervosa of the 80s and 90s?
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Brenden » 27 January 2020, 22:01

Magic J wrote:I don't think hormone therapy or surgical reassignment can be seen as directly analogous to gay conversion therapy. Nobody is forcibly compelled into it, for instance.

They are in countries like Iran and Pakistan, where homosexuality is punishable by death and claiming to be transsexual is a way to escape the punishment if caught. The latter of which Pink News just celebrated for their new policy of covering the medical expenses of gender reassignment. That is to say, Pink News held Pakistan up as a progressive country for their trans policy, despite the fact they routinely execute gay people. :facepalm:
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Magic J » 27 January 2020, 22:36

Brenden wrote:They are in countries like Iran and Pakistan, where homosexuality is punishable by death and claiming to be transsexual is a way to escape the punishment if caught. The latter of which Pink News just celebrated for their new policy of covering the medical expenses of gender reassignment. That is to say, Pink News held Pakistan up as a progressive country for their trans policy, despite the fact they routinely execute gay people. :facepalm:

If that's the case, then it's indeed shocking. Not too clued in on the situation in Pakistan and the like, but Wikipedia informs me that punishment up to the death penalty is in place for homosexual acts, but death penalty is not applied in practice? This is quibbling a little, though, it's still illegal and considered socially unacceptable there, which is not good in itself.

I'm not a regular reader of Pink News, do you happen to have links to any of the articles you're referring to? I found one article which focuses on the bill, and it did indeed fail to mention the legal situation of gay, lesbian and bisexual people in that country. I'm not sure I got the impression that the article was lionising Pakistan for its treatment of LGBT people in general, though.

This one: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/01/03/p ... rd-gender/
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Brenden » 27 January 2020, 23:45

Yes, that article.
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Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 28 January 2020, 04:18

Brenden wrote:They are in countries like Iran and Pakistan, where homosexuality is punishable by death and claiming to be transsexual is a way to escape the punishment if caught.

I don’t really see how that’s a point against those things. It’s like if a country, due to wacky beliefs, forced people to undergo face transplants. Should we now ban them because psychopaths exist?
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