What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today?

Talk about anything and everything.

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 13 September 2020, 11:53

PopTart wrote:Yeah, I don't swear at you. Do me the courtesy, of not swearing at me.

The real insult and indignity, is that you proceed to make assumptions about my character and politics, not through enquiry or engagement, you jump to conclusions and pass judgement based upon faulty assumptions. Im sick to the back teeth of intolerant people like you, who think they have the right judge people, because they have dared to express something, you either disagree with or believe to engender a viewpoint (whether it does or not) you find offensive.

I'm sick of being called a bigot and lumped in with genuinely awful people, because you can't be bothered to do any real work to learn otherwise.

I'm sick of trying to draw people into meaningful conversation and have my only reward, be insults, poorly veiled sneers and erroneous judgements about my intent and motivation.

You, King are so much part of the problems you complain about, you just don't see it.

And yeah, I have an expectation, that when I conduct myself with others and show them civility, deference, respect and consideration, that they might afford me the same, does that make me the queen of England? Well maybe it should.

Thankfully, it sets me apart from the likes of you.


I swear a lot in every day conversation. I was not swearing necessarily at you, it was at seeing the likes of blm and the alt-right in the same light. I never expected swearing online would provoke such insult in people. If there was a rule against it I wouldn't but since there isn't I do. From now on I won't if people are going to get the wrong idea from it.

Absolutely nowhere have I judged you, called you a bigot or thrown any other insults at you. Nowhere have I attacked or drawn assumptions about your character. As for your politics I don't know what yours are and it wasn't important. You made some argument anti I.P and I am allowed to attack it. That was all.

There is nothing at all within the post that you responded 'back up areshole' too to take insult at, as none was intended.

All I was saying is that you seem to use I.P as a catch all for all sorts of bad things. Your not really defining what you mean by it. Your then saying things like I must be a nationalist and support Putin because I support some other groups who use I.P in their politics.

Now if thats a wrong assessment or not what you mean then fine you can argue that back so, but there was nothing to take insult about me saying this. Its your problem if you do and I don't know how you can expect meaningful conversation if your going to be offended at the slightest of things and then throw insults back.
GaySpacePirateKing
 
Posts: 248
+1s received: 93
Joined: 14 January 2019, 18:53

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby PopTart » 13 September 2020, 12:26

GaySpacePirateKing wrote:
PopTart wrote:Yeah, I don't swear at you. Do me the courtesy, of not swearing at me.

The real insult and indignity, is that you proceed to make assumptions about my character and politics, not through enquiry or engagement, you jump to conclusions and pass judgement based upon faulty assumptions. Im sick to the back teeth of intolerant people like you, who think they have the right judge people, because they have dared to express something, you either disagree with or believe to engender a viewpoint (whether it does or not) you find offensive.

I'm sick of being called a bigot and lumped in with genuinely awful people, because you can't be bothered to do any real work to learn otherwise.

I'm sick of trying to draw people into meaningful conversation and have my only reward, be insults, poorly veiled sneers and erroneous judgements about my intent and motivation.

You, King are so much part of the problems you complain about, you just don't see it.

And yeah, I have an expectation, that when I conduct myself with others and show them civility, deference, respect and consideration, that they might afford me the same, does that make me the queen of England? Well maybe it should.

Thankfully, it sets me apart from the likes of you.


I swear a lot in every day conversation. I was not swearing necessarily at you, it was at seeing the likes of blm and the alt-right in the same light. I never expected swearing online would provoke such insult in people. If there was a rule against it I wouldn't but since there isn't I do. From now on I won't if people are going to get the wrong idea from it.

Absolutely nowhere have I judged you, called you a bigot or thrown any other insults at you. Nowhere have I attacked or drawn assumptions about your character. As for your politics I don't know what yours are and it wasn't important. You made some argument anti I.P and I am allowed to attack it. That was all.

There is nothing at all within the post that you responded 'back up areshole' too to take insult at, as none was intended.

All I was saying is that you seem to use I.P as a catch all for all sorts of bad things. Your not really defining what you mean by it. Your then saying things like I must be a nationalist and support Putin because I support some other groups who use I.P in their politics.

Now if thats a wrong assessment or not what you mean then fine you can argue that back so, but there was nothing to take insult about me saying this. Its your problem if you do and I don't know how you can expect meaningful conversation if your going to be offended at the slightest of things and then throw insults back.

:glasses:

:sigh:

Look, you can swear to your hearts content, I swear too, but I don't take kindly, when I feel people are swearing due to getting heated over something I've said. In my mind, it's the start of adversarial conduct and my back goes up. I've spent alot of my younger life, being the subject of verbal abuse and intimitadation and allowing myself to be shutdown, intimidated and outright victimised with such behaviour being the means or opening salvo. I learned to bristle and bluster right back as a means of defense. It's not always nice and it's not always fair, but I'll never let people think they can walk all over me. This is probably as close as you might get to an apology for my words before.

As to the rest, I am perhaps abit sensitive on this topic, as my first mention might tell you. I haven't given identity politics much consideration until recently, I've started reading some academic works on the subject and have been keen to engage on the matter, but everywhere I go online to discuss the topic in a rational and even handed manner, illicts hostile responses from both sides of the political spectrum, but especially from liberals of all bloody places.

I know what attitudes to expect from those you classify as alt-right, but I've been most struck by the negative response I get from people who claim to be liberal. It's become a nearly universal experience for me thus far, that liberals will engage with me on the subject, right upto the point I don't regurgitate their own simplistic opinions about identity politics. At which point I'm suddenly misjudged for daring to even take a critical look at, even for the sake of academic thought, groups that are the subject of identity politics. I've been labelled a CIS white male, an Incel and some things I haven't even heard of. But it flat out doesn't matter once people have their righeous fury on.

Yes, I sought to draw Magic and yourself into more of a conversation on the subject, but of all the places I expected to get labelled in a similar fashion as I have elsewhere... this was not the place I expected that. Now maybe I am reading too much into the undercurrent in both your replies, Magic was more subtle, I could ignore it, you on the other hand, not so much, but given my experiences elsewhere, I am most definately wary about engaging and commiting on the subject in any but the broadest sense, because experience has taught me, that doing so, isn't wise.

That people such as myself, however, find themselves hesitant to speak openly about such things, should, I think, be a warning sign for us as a society. But that is a different (and equally contentious and socially dangerous) subject entirely.

So, perhaps I have been hasty in jumping to my own defense, I've often been left to fend for myself and experience has taught me, this is one subject upon which, I can reasonably rely on being treated and judged, unfairly.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3018
+1s received: 2460
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 13 September 2020, 12:40

In that case I am sorry for swearing at you and will not do so again.

I will try and write a response to some of your thoughts on it but maybe its best to create another thread, and I will be as polite as I possibly can.

Also yeah Magic is definitely the good cop and me the bad I think. Plus he's better at articulating things I do tend to get upset and angry lol
GaySpacePirateKing
 
Posts: 248
+1s received: 93
Joined: 14 January 2019, 18:53

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby PopTart » 13 September 2020, 13:05

I was writing this while you posted your response. Thank you for your apology and, I too am sorry for my explosive reaction. It wasn't proportional, you're right.

I've already wrote the below stuff, so I'm going to post it anyway, it's not a continuation of any "arguement" but my attempt to explain my position and how I think we arrived here. I should edit in a few places, but I hate to editorialise after putting something to "paper" so to speak. So if there is abit of snark, ignore it.
GaySpacePirateKing wrote:Yeah so does broad sweeping strawmen and pigeonholing your opponent. Which I think was magics point. I.P describes a lot of different things but to you its something to pour all your fears into until it basically just means 'bad stuff' then you can throw that around and if you can apply it to someone then you can go oh so you must be a nationalist then, you must support putin, you must like this bad stuff. You know pigeonholing.

Here for example, you simply assume, that I am motivated by fear, fear of, I presume, change? ethnic minorities? Challenges to my "white supremacy"? You don't counter any arguement I make, as, you rightly point out, I haven't come out directly with my opinions regarding Identity politics (which aren't fully formed, but I'm getting to a solid place) So I guess I can't complain that you've made that assumption. :shifty:

I am certainly concerned. But not about what you assume, using your seeming traditional binary assessment of the positions one can take on the issue of identity politics, but about the use of identity politics, by both the far right and the far left, to create division, chaos and causes. All of which can be capitalised upon, by the popularist elements on BOTH sides, for the advancement of their own political agendas. The good intentions and virtuous goals of those groups seeking to achieve some form of meaningful recognition, being diverted or misapproriated for other causes. I'm also concerned about the overall, long term viability of cohesive society, when the directionless fanning of those same flames, those divisions, causes divisions so deep that no real chance of peaceful coexistance and understanding is left. There is little, overarching, distinct purpose on the lefts part, to this incitement of division in regards to identity politics. The right atleast have an advantage as their own use of identity politics is creating a more stable, cohesive whole, while the liberal agenda, is doing the opposite. That should worry anyone who doesn't want to live under an authoritarian state.

My comments about Putin, might have seemed like I was pigeonholing you, but what I was doing was trying to gauge the depth of consideration you have given the topic. Do you identify any commonalities or similarities between the causative factors of one type of identity politics and another? Do you see them as distinct or the same? Can you set aside your own political bias to consider, that maybe, both forms of identity politics come from the same place in the human psyche, but find expression in different manners and even interact with one another, all while being utilised by various interested parties that see benefits in using such powerful human behaviour.

This is what I was probing for, this is the kind of engagement I was hoping to find, to help me formulate my own thoughts on the matter.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3018
+1s received: 2460
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 13 September 2020, 15:08

As far as I know IDpol is just a style or approach to politics that relies upon identity.

That definition can apply from BLM to alt-right politics.

But saying your for or against IDpol I think is kind of like saying you are for or against politics entirely as thats what IDpol is its just a style of politics relient upon identity which could apply to a lot of different groups.

When it comes to groups like BLM or feminists or LGBT and that their politics can be described as IDpol I don't understand the uproar and I am going to refer to wikis definition of ID pol here:

Identity politics is a term that describes a political approach wherein people of a particular religion, race, social background, class or other identifying factor form exclusive socio-political alliances, moving away from broad-based, coalitional politics to support and follow political movements that share a particular identifying quality with them. Its aim is to support and center the concerns, agendas, and projects of particular groups, in accord with specific social and political changes.


And my questions are in relation to groups like BLM, feminists and LGBT what is really wrong with doing the above? How could those groups really be expected to include within them the people who oppress them? How else can they self empower themselves and fight back against white supremacy, patriarchy or homophobia?

Now I do not want to misunderstand you so do correct me if I am wrong, but your coming at this from a sort of centrist perspective right where you think the existence of these groups breaks down democracy and polarises society? Am I correct?

I can only really give you my own view in return.

I think society already is very polarised and we never really had a cohesive society. I don't think IDpol did that. Also I do not revel in societal breakdown and polarisation, but that is where we are. I think we are at breaking point. Our capitalist 'democratic' society is simply not sustainable ecologically, economically or socially. Something is going to give and soon I think.

I come at this from a very Anti-capitalist and yeah anarchisty perspective, so obviously I am opposed to liberal democracy. I think its a farce along with the idea of it being about equality or peaceful coexistence. I don't think it is. I don't think it was ever the goal really, but I don't know what to say to make you see it like this. This is just how I see it is all.

You said earlier you weren't sure what capitalism had to do with IDpol or maybe I didn't understand you?

I think capitalism created a lot of these differences.

Things like the concept of race or nationhood didn't really exist before capitalism I think.

Especially with race, the idea of it only emerged when capitalism expanded and needed masses of free labour. So when it went to Africa, tore black people from their family and lands and transported them to another continent where they were enslaved. Then when black people where othered and laws made to forbid relationships between black people and white. So racism was created through brutal bloody violence, people had to be completly broken down and dehumanised for it to become accepted and engrained within society and we have inhereted that society.
GaySpacePirateKing
 
Posts: 248
+1s received: 93
Joined: 14 January 2019, 18:53

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby PopTart » 13 September 2020, 18:32

Okay, this is going to be brief, as I'm getting ready for work tomorrow and want to watch a film before bed :D

GaySpacePirateKing wrote:As far as I know IDpol is just a style or approach to politics that relies upon identity.

That definition can apply from BLM to alt-right politics.

But saying your for or against IDpol I think is kind of like saying you are for or against politics entirely as thats what IDpol is its just a style of politics relient upon identity which could apply to a lot of different groups.

When it comes to groups like BLM or feminists or LGBT and that their politics can be described as IDpol I don't understand the uproar and I am going to refer to wikis definition of ID pol here:


Identity politics is a term that describes a political approach wherein people of a particular religion, race, social background, class or other identifying factor form exclusive socio-political alliances, moving away from broad-based, coalitional politics to support and follow political movements that share a particular identifying quality with them. Its aim is to support and center the concerns, agendas, and projects of particular groups, in accord with specific social and political changes.


And my questions are in relation to groups like BLM, feminists and LGBT what is really wrong with doing the above? How could those groups really be expected to include within them the people who oppress them? How else can they self empower themselves and fight back against white supremacy, patriarchy or homophobia?


From what I can make out, identity politics is no new phenomenon, but instead, has been evolving since Martin Luther, in a bid to reconcile the needs and desire for recognition of the inner self, in relation to wider society. Self identity has been drifting towards ever deeper, more fractional layers, in which, the identity of the individual slowly becomes divorced from the over arching social order, by a process of stratification that results in increased social discord and tribalism unless the power of the social order becomes the identity politics of the day. in essense, when you get right down to it, you either have balance, inwhich, social order and personal recognition and group identity exist in a balance or you have either a focus on the exaltation of ever increasingly reductionist self identity or you have over mighty social order. We could distill this down for the sake of this conversation and say, Russia today, represents over mighty social order, in which self identity is supressed or subsumed into the homogeny of an agreed upon wider social order. It's very stable, but often repressive. Modern day USA would be the rampant, self identity over social order formula that seems prevelant amongst the liberal/left of western society. Completely throwing social order out of the window. (I get you may think thats a good thing, but it's often the case that people such as ourselves think social order sucks and tearing it down is great, all the time it isn't costing us anything to do so, it always costs somebody something, no one wants to be the one footing that bill)

Now in short and with very little detail, the problem with the fixation on our differences is that over time, those differences become all consuming, to the extent that our differences become irreconcilable. That's fine, when your talking about a relationship (divorce!) or business (cease doing business) but when your talking about diverse, multicultural society, you have a serious problem. Inevitable conflict and again, conflict doesn't seem like a big deal, until you're on the recieving end of such conflict. We already have a drift towards a desire for segregation amongst ethnic communities in the US, here in the UK, ethnic segregation has already become a thing. Speak to the people of Birmingham and both white people and middle eastern muslims will tell you, they don't mix and they don't want to. If you can't see how that kind thing is a problem... :noes: Identity politics reinforces this mentality and creates new barriers to mutual understanding and peaceful coexistance. Understanding the forces at play here, is paramount to avoiding the kind of problems that past generations blithely stumbled into (like the climate crisis) then avowed all responsibility for after the fact, because "they couldn't have known" :hitler: I honestly believe that identity politics and the issues it creates, are tomorrows climate crisis level problems.

GaySpacePirateKing wrote:Now I do not want to misunderstand you so do correct me if I am wrong, but your coming at this from a sort of centrist perspective right where you think the existence of these groups breaks down democracy and polarises society? Am I correct?
Yes, I guess I would be regarded as centrist for ease of understanding, although it would be better to say, I tend to move around the center, on any given subject, depending on evolving circumstances and changing conditions. I very rarely adopt radical views unless there are radical circumstances and then, only for a limited, "crisis" duration.

GaySpacePirateKing wrote:I can only really give you my own view in return.

I think society already is very polarised and we never really had a cohesive society. I don't think IDpol did that. Also I do not revel in societal breakdown and polarisation, but that is where we are. I think we are at breaking point. Our capitalist 'democratic' society is simply not sustainable ecologically, economically or socially. Something is going to give and soon I think.

I come at this from a very Anti-capitalist and yeah anarchisty perspective, so obviously I am opposed to liberal democracy. I think its a farce along with the idea of it being about equality or peaceful coexistence. I don't think it is. I don't think it was ever the goal really, but I don't know what to say to make you see it like this. This is just how I see it is all.
I guess I have a different view on that. I tend to take near history into account, I regard the entirety of the modern age (the protestant reformation for western, social issues change, it is where the old systems of the world began to be broken down) I also vividly remember a small window of time, towards the end of the 90's and just before the economic crash of the early 00's, when it seemed that identity didn't matter anymore. sure, there was still racism and there were still genuine inequalities, but there was a sense of optimism that those issues could and would be dealt with and, by and large, in the UK atleast, it didn't matter where you came from, what ethnicity you were, gender or orientation, you would be treated and judged by the quality of your character (totally quoting the preacher but its a good quote)

The idea that we could set aside the differences that divide us, however, went bye bye, the minute the economic crash occured, which saw global inequality rise. which brings us to...

GaySpacePirateKing wrote:You said earlier you weren't sure what capitalism had to do with IDpol or maybe I didn't understand you?

I think capitalism created a lot of these differences.

Things like the concept of race or nationhood didn't really exist before capitalism I think.

Especially with race, the idea of it only emerged when capitalism expanded and needed masses of free labour. So when it went to Africa, tore black people from their family and lands and transported them to another continent where they were enslaved. Then when black people where othered and laws made to forbid relationships between black people and white. So racism was created through brutal bloody violence, people had to be completly broken down and dehumanised for it to become accepted and engrained within society and we have inhereted that society.
I disagree, i see capitalism as the great leveler. It allows people of exceptional skill to excel. The problem is that, like many economic systems, it as able to be exploited. Lack of regulation and a willful disregard for accountability is the problem.

I don't want to get drawn into too much of a discussion on the origin of racial identity, but it's safe to say, racial identity and nationhood (and thus, nationalism) have existed for aslong as people have been around. For aslong as there was a group to be apart of and a group that was "other", there have been people who commit predation upon eachother and done so, because they were different.

The difference between then and now (relatively speaking, I would regard 300 years ago as now, compared to "then") was that ones social groups, or tribes, encompassed the full breadth and scope of ones life experience.

People in ancient India, generally speaking, lived only amongst people in ancient India, the idea of living a different way, would have been as unimaginable to them as the idea of living in space without any protect, would seem alien to us now. Only the rare few had the skills and drive to go further.

When culture groups invariably met, it was often brutal, bloody and barbaric. Some societies did better than others (the Romans have a reputation for a reason, they were both brutal, but also, one of the most openly tolerant societies of antiquity) but many other cultures were not so kind and slavery, rape, and genocide were, quite honestly, not that unusual.

What perhaps, makes colonial slavery seem so stark in comparison, was the mechanical, industrial scale of the slavery, I don't say that to marginalise imperial or colonial slavery but to point out, why it can loom so large, in comparison to the less organised slavery that has dogged humanity, from it's earliest days, to modernity.

The idea that capitalism is the source of these woes, I think, is a misunderstanding or a desire perhaps, to find a simple solution, to age old, very complex problems, when infact, economics, while having a massive role to play in the motivations for people behaving certain ways, economics, by and large, acts more as a stressor, than a causative factor.

Rampant, unregulated capitalism with zero accountability, exacerbates ever present, underlying social issues, that otherwise could be ignored by those who are subject to them, by increasing pressure. It's not the source of the problem.

I suspect, too many people feel that it is.

The fact that there are those that want to destroy the two pillars of personal and social liberty in the world and have nothing of substance to replace it with, other than vague hopes that something helpful will rise up from the ashes, because change is somehow inherently good, I'll admit, is deep concern to me.

And I'm tired and this is abit disjointed as a result. But perhaps after work during this week or next, once I've read some more on the matter, I'll come back and start a thread for this subject and I might give it the kind of time it deserves.
Last edited by PopTart on 14 September 2020, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3018
+1s received: 2460
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 13 September 2020, 19:56

PopTart wrote:From what I can make out, identity politics is no new phenomenon, but instead, has been evolving since Martin Luther, in a bid to reconcile the needs and desire for recognition of the inner self, in relation to wider society. Self identity has been drifting towards ever deeper, more fractional layers, in which, the identity of the individual slowly becomes divorced from the over arching social order...


I think you can make the point about erosion of the individual towards some types of idpol like nationalism for example, but not all.

For the liberation movements I've mentioned earlier BLM, feminism (and I don't mean liberal feminism) and LGBT movements then honestly no I really don't see it. Those are supposed to be self empowering.

Sticking with LGBT for the moment, then yeah ok maybe you could make some point that it creates stereotypes. I think that's one way of looking at it, but doesn't it also really help people to gain confidence, acceptance, discover themselves and grow as an individual?

And I think LGBT is idpol. Lots of things are, in fact if your anywhere on the left at all then your engaging in idpol, because the left is concerned about class.

Idpol is largely unavoidable, but I don't think anyone actually self describes their politics as it though as it is a derogatory term.

What I am use to seeing is really reactionary types and some leftists criticising groups like BLM, feminism and LGBT for being idpol and so being 'divisive', or in the case of some leftists for not regarding class as the one only really important overarching issue. That is why I immediately jump on the defense when people start critcising it.

Now I don't think you fall into either of those categories and yes some of your points I think are fair and valid actually. I honestly think you would probably be better off looking at the social constructivism of things like race or nationality, and its use by the powers that be though than continuing to think along the lines of Idpol.

I say that because through responding to you I've realised even more that idpol is really just a meaningless very broad term thats mainly used in a derogatory way.

PopTart wrote:I disagree, i see capitalism as the great leveler. It allows people of exceptional skill to excel. The problem is that, like many economic systems, it as able to be exploited. Lack of regulation and a willful disregard for accountability is the problem.


If you read books about the origins of capitalism that are critical of it you would maybe see why I hate it so much. I can even provide you with such stuff.
GaySpacePirateKing
 
Posts: 248
+1s received: 93
Joined: 14 January 2019, 18:53

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby PopTart » 14 September 2020, 18:03

I'm always open to reading recommendations ;)
ImageImage
User avatar
PopTart
 
Posts: 3018
+1s received: 2460
Joined: 12 December 2017, 11:15
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Brenden » 16 September 2020, 16:01

Reality: Black people are getting and dying from COVID-19 at much higher rates.

Mainstream Media: It must be systematic racism!

Science: Well, let's try and figure this out so we can potentially save black people's lives.

Wokerati: Noooo, that's racist science! CANCEL! CANCEL!
Disclaimer: All views expressed in my posts are my own and do not reflect the views of this forum except when otherwise stated or this signature is not present.

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Brenden
Administrator
 
Posts: 8170
+1s received: 2891
Joined: 20 December 2012, 20:12
Location: Maryland, USA / Lanarkshire, Scotland
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Severelius » 17 September 2020, 16:41

Finally got myself a new phone.

Need to swap my current number over to my new sim card because fuck changing my contact details everywhere and having to remember a new number.

Sounds simple, right? Just text a thing to this number and boom, it'll get done! Fantastic, I think, like a naive fucking twatblast.

Text the thing to the number.... "oops, we're experiencing technical difficulties. Try again later."

5 times. At varied times of the day.

.... I'm getting really, REALLY fucking sick of nothing EVER going fucking smoothly when I try and fucking do it!
User avatar
Severelius
 
Posts: 3810
+1s received: 761
Joined: 6 May 2014, 20:49
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby Valso » 17 September 2020, 23:31

Chump pissed me off today, after seeing this video:

User avatar
Valso
 
Posts: 489
+1s received: 122
Joined: 14 December 2017, 17:00
Location: Bulgaria
Country: Bulgaria (bg)

Re: What pissed you off and made you lose your faith in humanity today

Unread postby erti » 19 September 2020, 01:15

They ain't letting me see the fucking kids.
User avatar
erti
 
Posts: 1232
+1s received: 795
Joined: 30 November 2018, 09:58
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States (us)

PostThis post was deleted by René on 19 September 2020, 01:31.
Reason: Double

Previous

Recently active
Users browsing this forum: azureflame, CommonCrawl [Bot], Facebook [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Severelius, stuff, wizid and 98 guests