Gay Scientific Cooperative

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Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby harel » 3 June 2020, 18:07

For the last few decades, many alliances for women in science have been formed. I am strongly convinced that gay men (if not men in general) are more disadvantaged in the society than women.

What do you think about organising an international alliance for non-heterosexual men in science. Does it make sense to promote one particular group of the society? Is there a need to promote (non-heterosexual) men in science? One of the most important things for young researchers is the international cooperation. There are many grants offered for the purpose of the international exchange of researchers.

To begin with, the alliance could be divided into three sections (corresponding to main science branches):
Social sciences
Life sciences
Physical and formal sciences

It could be organised, e.g., on Linkedin. This could be announced on other discussion boards for non-heterosexual men.

Are PhD students, academic employees registered here?
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Eryx » 3 June 2020, 18:53

I'm almost certain something like that already exists.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 3 June 2020, 19:08

I work as an archaeologist, and have published papers, so I suppose my job could be classed as quasi-academic.

The conditions are thus: at my company, there's a pretty even split between men and women at the management level, and there's a slight preponderance of women at the field staff level. In general, this reflects the higher number of women studying for degrees in archaeological science. Quite striking in that archaeology was, until quite recently, nearly entirely male (and predominantly the hairier, weirder variety of male :P).

As for LGBT staff, there is to my knowledge currently myself (bi male), two bi women, one lesbian woman, and one trans woman, so perhaps around 8% of staff are LGBT in some way. In the past, there were another two gay males.

I personally, haven't felt discriminated against during my work in any sort of overt way, apart from standard unsavoury of the cuff comments which I am sure that nobody would have said to my face had they known. I recall one instance where the lesbian woman was talked to in a pretty disgraceful manner, however. I don't think that this translates into systemic discrimination within the company.

In my experience, it's the female employees who seem to experience the most uncomfortable situations on construction sites (where I do a lot of work). Construction is heavily male dominated, and there have been numerous occasions where female employees have said they've felt very uncomfortable with how construction staff have behaved towards them.

Where I think the main systemic issue comes in is in the time commitment. At the field staff level, you spend quite a lot of your time travelling and living away from home. It's not particularly stable. If you value stability, perhaps value the kind of stability and time commitment required to, say, raise children, then it may not be the kind of job for you, as it's currently structured. Women, for a variety of reasons, generally take on a more dominant role in childcare, and so many drop out of fieldwork or archaeology altogether to do so. I would suppose this sort of problem could be approached with encouraging paternity leave, and more flexible working in general, though I'm no expert when it comes to these sorts of issues. The stability problem is also an age issue: younger people are more tolerant of it, whilst older people with more responsibilities are generally less so.

But with regards to access to training and level of responsibility, I've not had any major issues reported through the union. The major problems are to do with bad behaviour towards women, and occasionally towards gay people, on site.

On the research front, it could be cool to see some more research on male homosexuality evidenced archaeologically. There's been some interesting papers on "queer vikings" recently, which were fun. :lol:

Eryx wrote:I'm almost certain something like that already exists.

Not quite the same, but we've an LGBT rep with the archaeologists Union. They tend to deal with any complaints or issues surrounding discriminatory behaviour.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 3 June 2020, 19:34

I’d be willing to bet most of the nerds in STEM fields are gay.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 4 June 2020, 10:37

Eryx wrote:I'm almost certain something like that already exists.

Oh, I actually totally forgot, I was a member of an LGBT science research thing at uni, but it was full of proper scientists, so got scared off. :P I think it included several universities. That was for lgbt people in general, rather than just men, though.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby harel » 4 June 2020, 22:37

Magic J wrote:Oh, I actually totally forgot, I was a member of an LGBT science research thing at uni, but it was full of proper scientists, so got scared off.

On the internet have found only one organisation of this kind. However, it looks scary to me as well: https://www.noglstp.org Perhaps, I am not on this level of "scientificity". Your inside perspective on archaeology is great; I have never talked to an archaeologist.

Somewhat aside from the topic, for me it is irritating that some universities offer PhD or Postdoc positions for women only. For example, this year University of Vienna published a call for applications for 16 female PhD student positions and for 1 male or female PhD student position. I will not to be able to apply for it, because I am male. I hate it: https://rewire.univie.ac.at/ , https://euraxess.ec.europa.eu/jobs/414027 Note that nowadays women constitute the majority of high school students. In some areas, for example, in medicine, 2/3 students are female.

I was asking you, because in the country where I live, we have grants for international projects. Actually, it is very easy to get them.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Choicespecs » 5 June 2020, 07:11

I know in the UK there are a few LGBT bodies that will fund a PhD. Ive applied for a few charities and scholarship funds.

It kinda depends on the field you want and then look for the LGBT community in that field. There are usually committees set up to help LGBT people get into that field. You have to search for our people within these areas. They are there, not always obvious depending on the field and where you are. Remeber we only make up roughly 6-10%of the world population. There arent many of us. We do need to help each other out.

There are also directories for "Pink Scholarships" . Sadly a majority of them are in USA. But this is an example.
https://www.gograd.org/financial-aid/sc ... ips/lgbtq/

Ive asked to The British Psychology Society as I want to do my PhD within Social Psychology and LGBT issues. Havent heard back yet. But fingers crossed.

Another method im trying is messaging professors in the field asking if they want a research assistant. If they are lgbt - cash in the gay card. If they arent - still use the gay card because "diversity".
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby harel » 12 June 2020, 22:36

Magic J wrote:I work as an archaeologist, and have published papers, so I suppose my job could be classed as quasi-academic.

The Hebrew University of Jerusalem: https://gideonshelachlavi.huji.ac.il/si ... idates.pdf :rolleyes:
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 12 June 2020, 23:10

harel wrote:
Magic J wrote:I work as an archaeologist, and have published papers, so I suppose my job could be classed as quasi-academic.

The Hebrew University of Jerusalem: https://gideonshelachlavi.huji.ac.il/si ... idates.pdf :rolleyes:

I'm unsure why I've been quoted here.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby harel » 13 June 2020, 07:35

If I was an archaeologist, I would apply.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 13 June 2020, 15:44

harel wrote:If I was an archaeologist, I would apply.

Oh, I see! I don't speak any Chinese, unfortunately, and know literally nothing about East Asian archaeology. I'm mostly interested in really boring stuff, like site formation and material preservation. :P

Choicespecs wrote:Ive asked to The British Psychology Society as I want to do my PhD within Social Psychology and LGBT issues. Havent heard back yet. But fingers crossed.

Good luck! Also, obligatory question: what do you wanna research?
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Choicespecs » 13 June 2020, 16:59

Magic J wrote:Good luck! Also, obligatory question: what do you wanna research?


Ahaha thank you <3

I want to look at how current mental health interventions are effecting LGBT people.

So I want to do something along the lines of LGBT and mental health.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby harel » 13 June 2020, 17:40

Good luck and mazel tov <3
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 14 June 2020, 23:35

Choicespecs wrote:I want to look at how current mental health interventions are effecting LGBT people.

Oh cool! Do you have any hypotheses you want to explore? Or are you more interested in joining a research team?
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Choicespecs » 15 June 2020, 06:59

Magic J wrote:Oh cool! Do you have any hypotheses you want to explore? Or are you more interested in joining a research team?


I dont have a specific question or hypotheses yet.

The main idea is that Critical Theory, its subsidiary Queer Theory and Intersectionality over the years has not solved LGBT issues but made them worse by continually to victimise LGBT people. Why? Thats part of what I want to find out. These theories have been the dominating LGBT narrative for years and I feel this has affected our comminity in a mostly negative way. We've had 30-40 years of Critical Theory, its clearly not working.

With all the "help" for LGBT people data shows mental health and life outcomes continue to fall, sucide continues to rise and now homophobia is also making a come back. And we keep pointing fingers externally rather than looking at our own community for answers.

I have a theory and Im working with a new start up to get this going. We did a trial group over a 6 week period and the results were astounding. But now trying to get proper funding to get this off the ground and to also find a place to get a PhD and research this.

If you are interested I would really recomend reading Velvet Rage by Dr Alan Downs. Its a great starting point that highlights issues we face within our own community. Its a shame we didnt go down this route back in the 00s. But its easier to scream heteronormaty and homophobia than deal with issues in our own community.

I am going against the grain of the community. So you may see me get cancelled in a few years. But hey ho, I tried.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Ander1969 » 1 July 2020, 17:20

I think that's a brilliant hypothesis. Good luck!!!
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 1 July 2020, 18:58

Choicespecs wrote:The main idea is that Critical Theory, its subsidiary Queer Theory and Intersectionality over the years has not solved LGBT issues but made them worse by continually to victimise LGBT people. Why? Thats part of what I want to find out. These theories have been the dominating LGBT narrative for years and I feel this has affected our comminity in a mostly negative way. We've had 30-40 years of Critical Theory, its clearly not working.

With all the "help" for LGBT people data shows mental health and life outcomes continue to fall, sucide continues to rise and now homophobia is also making a come back. And we keep pointing fingers externally rather than looking at our own community for answers.

Apologies, forgot to reply!

Sounds intriguing. On the more philosophical side of things, I know that there's a few people who do work around the idea of ressentiment in their critique of Crit Theory and the like. On the dead ones, how about Neitzche? Or Fanon, maybe. Both psychological thinkers that might be worth a shot, if you've not read them. Some would say dangerous thinkers, tread with care! :P
Choicespecs wrote:We did a trial group over a 6 week period and the results were astounding.

Itching to ask for the details, but probably best not to share your data. :lol:
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Choicespecs » 3 July 2020, 14:47

Magic J wrote:Apologies, forgot to reply!

Sounds intriguing. On the more philosophical side of things, I know that there's a few people who do work around the idea of ressentiment in their critique of Crit Theory and the like. On the dead ones, how about Neitzche? Or Fanon, maybe. Both psychological thinkers that might be worth a shot, if you've not read them. Some would say dangerous thinkers, tread with care! :P

Itching to ask for the details, but probably best not to share your data. :lol:



For your first section; I'm awfully sorry I'm not really sure what you mean. I have read a few critics of Critical Theory but "ressentiment" has not come up. I have never heard of that and I would be interested to know more!

Regarding your second point; I sadly as you say cannot share with your the figures as of yet. But I can share that some outcomes were. The biggest one was drug use dropping. Also depression was also reduced and some reported to applying to get back into education feeling that it helped them to know what to do.

It is going, I have been a bit lazy lately. Been dealing with some personal issues. But we are hopeful to get things going by next year.
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Re: Gay Scientific Cooperative

Unread postby Magic J » 3 July 2020, 16:12

Choicespecs wrote:For your first section; I'm awfully sorry I'm not really sure what you mean. I have read a few critics of Critical Theory but "ressentiment" has not come up. I have never heard of that and I would be interested to know more!

Haha, no worries, they were prior to Crit theory becoming formalised, so perhaps they don't come up in the literature outside of niche philosophy and psychoanalysis. :lol: I should say that the term is often used within crit theory, too. It's all too complicated, tbh. :lol:

Ressentiment is the French term, literally "resentment", meaning the feeling of bitterness that the less powerful may have towards the more powerful. In the philosophical usage, it often has more specific connotations: in which the less powerful define themselves by opposition to a more powerful Other, and internalise a sense of inferiority. Similar to the "Master/Slave dialectic" which was first talked about by either Neitszche or Hegel, can't really remember.

So, ressentiment is something that has to be overcome in order to see oneself as a valuable person, to be fully realised. Different thinkers proposed different solutions for the different connexts they were working in. Franz Fannon (anti-colonial thinker and psychologist), for instance, notoriously proposed revolutionary violence as a means to dissipate the feelings of resentment that colonised peoples had towards the colonisers. That's a particularly extreme example, but it's the that I've actually read a bit on. :P As for more contemporary thinkers, I can think of Camilla Basi (Marxist geographer) and Slavoj Zizek (Marxist psychoanalytic thinker and sniffy man) who use the concept. As you can see, it's a politically charged term, too, so do be aware of that. :P Look at criticism of it, too! It's also all very "unscientific", so not sure if that sort of stuff would be of any use.

Choicespecs wrote:It is going, I have been a bit lazy lately. Been dealing with some personal issues. But we are hopeful to get things going by next year.

Hope you're doing all right! In the mean time, consider performing unethical social experiments on us unwitting forum members. :P
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