Oscar Drama

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Oscar Drama

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 28 March 2022, 03:39

Do you think the slap Will Smith gave Chris Rock was real or a stunt to boost ratings?

On the one hand, we all know their ratings are in the toilet. On the other, Will’s acting isn’t the greatest and this looked real. :lol:

But then he won an Oscar afterward and got up and talked about it how his character the film protected his family and some other rambling while tearing up and whatnot. It’s almost too perfect. I just want this to be true so badly.

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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Derek » 28 March 2022, 04:06

I think they should go full VMAs and have Kate Winslet make out with Laura Dern.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 28 March 2022, 04:54

What’s making me eye roll right now are all the comments online about how “no one can take a joke anymore” or that it’s Chris’ job and just treating comedy like it’s this sacred profession that one has no right to get upset about. Like, sure, it goes without saying that reacting by assaulting someone is unacceptable, but I highly doubt that people would have the same reaction if it hadn’t been a joke and instead was just an outright insult hurled by any other person.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby pozzie » 28 March 2022, 06:06

I've watched a couple clips which show different things though I'm still unable to discern if it was an open handed slap or a glancing punch. Jada's reaction tells me this was way too real to be a publicity stunt, but I'm sure we'll know more after the fallout settles. Being the assault was caught live on camera, I'm sure someone will want to investigate even if Rock declines to press charges. So, for now, I'm in the 'real' camp. (Seems the LAPD and Academy are releasing statements.)

And gee, if folks haven't figured out "people can't take a joke anymore" by now, then who's the bigger tool? Clearly the preceding joke aimed at Bardem and Cruz wasn't offensive even if it relied heavily on a particular stereotype attached to women. So people seemed to be responding accordingly up until Smith strode onto the stage. I also believe Pinkett-Smith's reaction shows she was at least a bit hurt by the comment (and didn't find it one bit funny).

Personally, I just can't get the fact that this has literally blasted the Ukraine war out of the top of the headlines, even for a few hours, out of my mind. On some level, it just seems so wrong to be fawning over so many rich people (mostly) fawning over just how wonderful they are while Zelenskyy begs for a few planes and tanks. Swag anyone?
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Brenden » 28 March 2022, 09:19

Will was laughing the joke off (the mature way to handle jokes at one's expense in public) until he noticed his wife's reaction, which just seemed to be an eyeroll. What kind of a fucked up relationship must they have where he snaps to violence based on her reaction?
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Brenden » 28 March 2022, 09:25

poolerboy0077 wrote:What’s making me eye roll right now are all the comments online about how “no one can take a joke anymore” or that it’s Chris’ job and just treating comedy like it’s this sacred profession that one has no right to get upset about. Like, sure, it goes without saying that reacting by assaulting someone is unacceptable, but I highly doubt that people would have the same reaction if it hadn’t been a joke and instead was just an outright insult hurled by any other person.

Except it wasn't, and there has been a tradition of roasting celebrities (especially at self-congratulatory events like this) since time immemorial, which probably actually benefits celebrities' public perceptions because it simultaneously knocks them off their pedestals making them more relatable and elicits a bit of sympathy.

Will's initial reaction was mature, Jada's was melodramatic but understandable, and then Will's resultant reaction was just outright crazy.

Also, I've seen people saying it's not right to joke about people's medical conditions… It's fucking hair loss, not cancer, get a grip.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Brenden » 28 March 2022, 09:53

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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Marmaduke » 28 March 2022, 14:11

I can empathise with Will’s reaction, if acknowledging it was a bit strong. I’ve always held to the comic line in the sand that mockery is fine where what you’re mocking comes from a degree of choice. Where there isn’t choice, I don’t really believe that insult comedy is justified simply by virtue of being comedy. I think Chris Rock stepped over that line and deserved to suffer consequence.

Do I believe it was real? Kinda, but also kinda not. I think there was at least more restraint to Will Smith’s actions that people are really making out. The man is 6’3 and a muscular 225lbs. Open handed or not, unrestrained, Will Smith is knocking you down. You don’t carry on immediately as if nothing ever happened.

I believe Will Smith’s actions, whilst misjudged, were measured. They weren’t unjustified. Chris Rock hid behind the room and the live broadcast to say something he knew was over the line and just said to get a gasp. He did it knowing it would upset Pinkett-Smith. Will knew it would’ve hurt his wife and elected to not let Chris hide behind the context and impose a consequence in that moment that spoke to Rock and the room and let there be no doubt on how wrong Will felt that moment was.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby PopTart » 28 March 2022, 15:57

I think it was real, I think his outburst afterwards was pretty genuine.

As to the nature of his reaction, maybe he did what he did, precisely because he laughed along and felt guilty? Do I think he was justified? Yeah. I'd not stand for it.

I tend to agree he could have been a lot more forceful but for whatever reason wasn't.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Severelius » 28 March 2022, 16:38

I'm still personally struggling to get past the "it's funny as fuck to see someone belt Chris Rock in his stupid face" phase of reacting to the whole thing. I have no stance on it along any ethical or moral lines, because every time I see it I just laugh. I'm aware this probably makes me a terrible human being.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 29 March 2022, 01:30

Brenden wrote:Except it wasn't, and there has been a tradition of roasting celebrities (especially at self-congratulatory events like this) since time immemorial

If he were roasting some celebrity about always getting nominated but never winning, okay fine. But he went personal about an issue that’s delicate, especially for many women. Also, this is the Oscars, not a Comedy Central roast. I don’t think people who opt to go to an awards ceremony expect to have their personal defects be brought up for ridicule. But since you brought up cancer, are you saying there is a line?

Marmaduke wrote:Where there isn’t choice, I don’t really believe that insult comedy is justified simply by virtue of being comedy. I think Chris Rock stepped over that line and deserved to suffer consequence.

God, thank you. I don’t know why people treat comedy as if it were some magical incantation that shields the comedian from any criticism of being a dick. Chris was being a dick. Does that justify assault? No. Does it justify even a curse-laden outburst? Debatable. But he’s totally justified in being bothered by it.
Last edited by Brenden on 29 March 2022, 12:06, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed your quotes.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Derek » 29 March 2022, 01:38

Aren't the Pinkett-Smiths known for being one of the weirdest, most out-of-touch families in Hollywood? And isn't Jaida known as one of the most difficult people to work with in the industry?
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby pozzie » 29 March 2022, 02:14

Derek wrote:Aren't the Pinkett-Smiths known for being one of the weirdest, most out-of-touch families in Hollywood? And isn't Jaida known as one of the most difficult people to work with in the industry?


Yeah, I've seen this line of thought expressed elsewhere as well as mentions of Scientology, but since I don't really care about the sacred lives of celebrities ...

I just wonder how much thought went into Rock's routine. Was it a lot of adlibbing? Find it hard to imagine that comment was on a teleprompter. Probably at this stage of my life I'm more a believer that humor at another's expense always carries too much risk.

Don't have any issue with there being consequences when someone says something that's off. Off-putting. Off-color. Out of touch. While the assault was bad form and ill-advised, I think getting the immediate response - the shout - out and off the chest is better than letting the anger fester, especially for anyone prone to stewing in the emotion. However, it's pretty telling about how our culture reacts to slights. Wonder how many birthday party and car show shootings are such a response.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Brenden » 29 March 2022, 12:12

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Brenden wrote:Except it wasn't, and there has been a tradition of roasting celebrities (especially at self-congratulatory events like this) since time immemorial

If he were roasting some celebrity about always getting nominated but never winning, okay fine. But he went personal about an issue that’s delicate, especially for many women. Also, this is the Oscars, not a Comedy Central roast. I don’t think people who opt to go to an awards ceremony expect to have their personal defects be brought up for ridicule. But since you brought up cancer, are you saying there is a line?

It's just hair loss. Why is it okay for balding men to be the butt of jokes about their hair loss and methods to hide or deal with it but not women? I thought we wanted an equal society?

Yeah, and I'd put the line at medical issues that aren't just problems for one's vanity. Conditions that are deadly or actually disfiguring.

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:Where there isn’t choice, I don’t really believe that insult comedy is justified simply by virtue of being comedy. I think Chris Rock stepped over that line and deserved to suffer consequence.

God, thank you. I don’t know why people treat comedy as if it were some magical incantation that shields the comedian from any criticism of being a dick. Chris was being a dick. Does that justify assault? No. Does it justify even a curse-laden outburst? Debatable. But he’s totally justified in being bothered by it.

Except he wasn't bothered by it. He was literally laughing about it seconds before. Until he got a signal from his emotionally-abusive wife.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Brenden » 29 March 2022, 12:14

Marmaduke wrote:I can empathise with Will’s reaction, if acknowledging it was a bit strong. I’ve always held to the comic line in the sand that mockery is fine where what you’re mocking comes from a degree of choice. Where there isn’t choice, I don’t really believe that insult comedy is justified simply by virtue of being comedy. I think Chris Rock stepped over that line and deserved to suffer consequence.

Do I believe it was real? Kinda, but also kinda not. I think there was at least more restraint to Will Smith’s actions that people are really making out. The man is 6’3 and a muscular 225lbs. Open handed or not, unrestrained, Will Smith is knocking you down. You don’t carry on immediately as if nothing ever happened.

I believe Will Smith’s actions, whilst misjudged, were measured. They weren’t unjustified. Chris Rock hid behind the room and the live broadcast to say something he knew was over the line and just said to get a gasp. He did it knowing it would upset Pinkett-Smith. Will knew it would’ve hurt his wife and elected to not let Chris hide behind the context and impose a consequence in that moment that spoke to Rock and the room and let there be no doubt on how wrong Will felt that moment was.

How do you square this with what you expressed here?
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 29 March 2022, 12:46

Brenden wrote:It's just hair loss. Why is it okay for balding men to be the butt of jokes about their hair loss and methods to hide or deal with it but not women? I thought we wanted an equal society?

It isn’t. I don’t think people should be mocked for their physical appearance unless they’ve agreed that it’s fair game. Will’s reaction was over the top, but a lot of people online are making it seem that because something is wrapped in comedy, one cannot legitimately be offended at anything ever. If it’s an insult, the fact that comedy is the vehicle used to reliever it doesn’t make it any less so. That’s all I’m saying.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby Marmaduke » 29 March 2022, 14:48

Brenden wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:I can empathise with Will’s reaction, if acknowledging it was a bit strong. I’ve always held to the comic line in the sand that mockery is fine where what you’re mocking comes from a degree of choice. Where there isn’t choice, I don’t really believe that insult comedy is justified simply by virtue of being comedy. I think Chris Rock stepped over that line and deserved to suffer consequence.

Do I believe it was real? Kinda, but also kinda not. I think there was at least more restraint to Will Smith’s actions that people are really making out. The man is 6’3 and a muscular 225lbs. Open handed or not, unrestrained, Will Smith is knocking you down. You don’t carry on immediately as if nothing ever happened.

I believe Will Smith’s actions, whilst misjudged, were measured. They weren’t unjustified. Chris Rock hid behind the room and the live broadcast to say something he knew was over the line and just said to get a gasp. He did it knowing it would upset Pinkett-Smith. Will knew it would’ve hurt his wife and elected to not let Chris hide behind the context and impose a consequence in that moment that spoke to Rock and the room and let there be no doubt on how wrong Will felt that moment was.

How do you square this with what you expressed here?

Would I have advised Will to slap Chris? No. Can I empathise with why he did? Yes.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby PopTart » 29 March 2022, 16:37

I'd like to digress from the subject to address the concept, that violence is never the answer. While I get the sentiment behind the thinking and I think in this instance, Smith should have probably spoken up prior to bitch slapping Rock, there are instances in which, violence most certainly is the answer. Or at the very least, is an answer. It may not be the best answer or the preferred answer, but it can be just as effective and sometimes more so, than the alternatives.

I don't really understand the over emphasis on pacifism, especially if the results of such, are worse than if one were a little willing to understand those circumstances in which, violence can be an acceptable response to a situation.

I don't mean to suggest that all problems should be resolved with violence or that it's even the most optimal solution to any given situation. But it should be seen as a legitimate response at times.

I was bullied at school and I experienced a fair few instances of physical violence. Which despite reporting the problem to teachers, parents and all manner of "action meetings" resulted only in more attacks. It was only when I was surrounded by six guys who all punched me in the head, that I grabbed the one in front of me and beat that arseholes face until it turned purple in front of my eyes, that suddenly, the bullies finally left me alone. Funny that. My parents had always told me to fight back but I'd never wanted nor liked violence. It had taken a fight or flight response, in a situation where I couldn't fly, to understand the logic and validity of their advice.

The same happened with a different group in my last year of secondary who, egged on by others attacked a lesbian friend and I on the back fields of the school and we stood up for ourselves and fought back, leaving enough bloody noses to discourage anyone from having similar ideas in the future.

This idea that every problem, every difference, can be overcome with the right conversation, is as ridiculous as the idea that every problem can be solved with a closed fist to the face.

Violence shouldn't be off the table as a reasoned and worthwhile response, simply because it makes so many people uncomfortable.

Perhaps we should spend more time teaching people when the right time and circumstances are to apply violence we would see less instances of people resorting to it, when they shouldn't.
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby pozzie » 29 March 2022, 20:14

Agreed. I think society needs to have more realistic discussions about violence, the desire to protect/fight back, de-escalation, retribution, etc. I think many are glad that Rock didn't choose to return the slap and is reportedly refusing to file a complaint with the police. It might be nice if those involved could use their access to the media to work together to solve this in a more responsible manner. Instead we'll probably get plenty of pontification, from an industry that constantly promotes vengeance and other violent narratives.

I also don't think either gender should be ridiculed for something like hair loss.

And now I'm reading there's also some backlash to Schumer calling Kristin Dunst a "seat-filler", taking Dunst's chair away, and flirting with Jessie Plemmons.

And they wonder why viewers are losing interest?
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Re: Oscar Drama

Unread postby PopTart » 29 March 2022, 20:59

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Brenden wrote:It's just hair loss. Why is it okay for balding men to be the butt of jokes about their hair loss and methods to hide or deal with it but not women? I thought we wanted an equal society?

It isn’t. I don’t think people should be mocked for their physical appearance unless they’ve agreed that it’s fair game. Will’s reaction was over the top, but a lot of people online are making it seem that because something is wrapped in comedy, one cannot legitimately be offended at anything ever. If it’s an insult, the fact that comedy is the vehicle used to reliever it doesn’t make it any less so. That’s all I’m saying.

I'm guessing you mean, someone's agreeing it's fair game, by engaging in the same behaviour themselves? Because I've never known someone to pre-emptively volunteer to be the butt of a joke. And I've never heard of a comedian seeking someone else's permission to make them one. Don't really see that working.

Granted, making a mockery of someone, is pretty low humour.

Tangent time.
I do wonder if American attitudes on this, are influenced by "roast" culture. It's such an American thing, to turn mockery and ridicule under controlled circumstances into it's own, seperate thing while denouncing it more generally "in the wild"

It's the same principle. It appeals to the same baser impulses, it just dresses it up in a formal attire and makes it more palatable so everyone involved can tell themselves they aren't shitty people for enjoying it, rather than facing upto the reality that, sometimes, even good people, find it funny when someone gets shat upon. It's funny because it's not them, it's funny because it's outrageous, it's inappropriate, it's a truth that dare not speak it's name aloud etc etc.

If you find it funny in controlled circumstances, like a roast, you'd find it funny any other time, you just can't face the moral implications of your enjoyment.
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