TV Show of the Moment

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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby PopTart » 22 October 2021, 16:58

poolerboy0077 wrote:When this story first broke, I immediately remembered the almost complete silence by black comedians over the uproar of white comedians’ past blackface sketches, so I did some digging to see where Chappelle stood and found this little gem:

CNN wrote:In 2005 Dave Chappelle talked to Time magazine about why he walked away from his astronomically popular Comedy Central show that year at the height of his success.

He told the publication the last skit he had shot for his show before abandoning his series was about "magic pixies that embody stereotypes about the races."

"The black pixie -- played by Chappelle -- wears blackface and tries to convince blacks to act in stereotypical ways. Chappelle thought the sketch was funny, the kind of thing his friends would laugh at," Time writer Chris Farley noted. "But at the taping, one spectator, a white man, laughed particularly loud and long. His laughter struck Chappelle as wrong, and he wondered if the new season of his show had gone from sending up stereotypes to merely reinforcing them."

Chappelle lamented at the time that "When [the White man] laughed, it made me uncomfortable" and said he told himself he needed to take a timeout "Because my head almost exploded."

He would not return to his career until 12 years later.


A similar thing happened with Kevin Hart. He offered a rationalization in lieu of an apology for his past sketches regarding gays (at a time when gays were barely trying to broach a national dialogue about rights and dignity, mind you), instead and saying that people are just sensitive these days, yet a year earlier Bill Maher had dropped the n-word on his show in the context of a joke and swiftly apologized for it, but Hart didn’t accept the apology and instead when he went on the Breakfast Club he lambasted him for it.

Kinda funny that the very people who say there shouldn’t be a limit to jokes don’t fully agree with that sentiment when it hits close to home.
Don't quote me, because I don't remember his set by rote, but I think he does refer to that event for a moment, seemingly addressing the irony, but he moved on pretty swiftly. It's not like he made trans jokes, he did mock trans activists, but he also mocked those black people, who are themselves bigotted, most often toward asians. He mocked gay rights campaigners who can be equally mercurial, given the circumstances.

I do think there was a definate political purpose in that stand up though, it wasn't just about jokes and making people laugh. A couple of times he was quite serious and he made it clear he knew the show was going to blow up and he likely wouldn't be performing much after this particular show. The cynic in me, might even question if that was the point. If one is planning on taking a hiatus, what better way to make sure you are remembered for awhile and should you make a come back, it might be bigger news than otherwise might be the case.

But I do think that the show was more about talking about things and about even being able to talk about things without outrage backlash and petty labelling. The irony is, that all those trans activists and their celebrity clingers on, are proving the point Chappelle is making. :shrug:

It's hard to argue, when trans ang gay communities are making his case for him.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 22 October 2021, 17:15

Are they though? Time again we see these same minority comedians pause or rebuke instances of comedy gone too far whenever they or the community to which they belong are implicated. If even our most (supposedly) no-holds-barred comedians make these sorts of exceptions, doesn’t this put them on equal footing on some level?
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby PopTart » 22 October 2021, 18:00

You won't get any argument from me on that count. I don't think anyone is any better here. I do think that, to some degree Chappelle even acknowledges that.

It's so often the case that, as you say, someone, be it celebrity/comedian or otherwise, will talk about humour having no boundaries, but then suddenly finding, actually, while humour might not have boundaries, they most certainly do. But does one persons boundaries, need to define everyone elses and if so, which person? All people? Just minority people? Yes, there is hypocrisy, when one person demands complete immunity to criticism, because it's humour, and it's subjective etc, only to then demand exemptions for the group to which they belong, special consideration and deference. :gayblahblah:

But does that say there is something wrong with comedy itself, or more likely, that there is something wrong with our relationship with humour, how we approach it and how we react to it, when we find ourselves being made the butt of the joke.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 23 October 2021, 15:04

PopTart wrote:But does that say there is something wrong with comedy itself, or more likely, that there is something wrong with our relationship with humour, how we approach it and how we react to it, when we find ourselves being made the butt of the joke.

I’m not so sure it’s our relationship with humor that’s the problem here but more about the inability to distinguish humorless dullards from those concerned about social irresponsibility. I don’t think we can live in a post-Trump world and seriously argue that discourse and rhetoric play no role in the development or compounding of social attitudes that affect people’s well-being. It’s the very point of the term “problematic” by progressives. Refer to the point Derek brought up about how merely referencing homosexuality, or some caricature thereof, was seen decades ago as a punchline worthy of a belly laugh. Apart from the laziness of the jokes that have aged poorly since, these only served to embolden the already existing prejudices of a society unwilling to see gays with any kind of humanity. That inhumanity wasn’t merely “hurt feelings” but a real material hardship in rights, fear, depression, self-image and so forth, and it took a long time before a confluence of events led to people considering us as more than just an illegitimate parasite or punchline. I’m not sure that against this backdrop we can easily dismiss all those boycotting or staging walkouts as if there isn’t a more nuanced perspective that even these same comedians understand on some level.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby PopTart » 23 October 2021, 16:06

Yeah, you make some good points.

I suspect the evolution of humour has always been the same. It moves with the times. It reflects the culture it is a part of. Humour is subjective, there will always be someone that laughs at fart jokes. There will always be those that laugh at someone elses misfortune, there will always be those that laugh at something you or I don't like and all the whole there is an audience there will be those that will play to that audience.

The fact that a significant proportion of people find identity targeted humour funny, could be concerning. It could have implications. But what implications, I think is harder to say.

What of humour as being a means of breaking down social anxieties? Death is often made fun of in comedic fashion as a way to confront our mortality and feel more at ease with it.

Right now, nobody is allowed to talk about certain things, openly or otherwise. Resorting to humour can be a valid means of bracing otherwise contentious, socially awkward subjects or taboos. When people make fun of a group, suddenly, talking about that group becomes easier. Conversations take place, sometimes they are respectful and sometimes they aren't but talking elicits thinking.

I dont doubt there is definately a case to be made, that some comedy, that targets specific groups, could be tantamount to hate speech.

But I'd be lying if I said that was what I heard in Chappelles show. He expresses respect and admiration for gay people and gay activism, atleast, when it had a purpose.

He expresses respect for individual trans people, while mocking others and the wider movement. Mocking specific individuals and a broader, political movement, I don't see in the same vein, as mocking say, all black people or all gay people.

I didn't see in Chappelle someone who hated trans people, but I do see someone being made an example of such and not being impressed by it.

What is funny, albeit, not so much haha, is that what we have here, is a sequence of reactions, that is driving division.

What we have here, is the consequence of denying wider society a chance to talk about these issues, for fear that society will make the wrong choices, listen to the wrong people and therefore, all discourse must be shutdown, unless it is fully supportive. There will be more Chappelles in the years to come. I suspect there are far worse, we don't hear about, because they don't enjoy his profile.

I'm not inclined to say, that the rights movements are free of culpability in the very reactionary behaviour they now protest.

You imply that we should reflect on the matter more, or differently, since Trump was on office.
Why do you think that society and people at large are different, after Trump than before?

Do you think that people were somehow better in nature before Trump came to office? Or is it that a formerly silent, more bigoted section of society has awoken as a result and now demands attention?

If it's the latter, why do you think this silent, more bigoted section of society has begun to become active?
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 24 October 2021, 15:35

PopTart wrote:Do you think that people were somehow better in nature before Trump came to office?

I don’t. I’m saying that post Trump we should now be more aware of the impact discourse and rhetoric has on our collective conscience. His presidency brought into clear focus what we should’ve noticed long ago.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 October 2021, 02:50

So I’m watching Elite and they have a cuckold storyline. :lol:

:awesome:
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby Derek » 27 October 2021, 05:03

Is that your kink?
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 October 2021, 15:53

Derek wrote:Is that your kink?

I love seeing cucked twinks. What would that be called? Meta-cuck? Vicarious cuck? Cuck voyerism?
Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby PopTart » 27 October 2021, 16:40

poolerboy0077 wrote:
PopTart wrote:Do you think that people were somehow better in nature before Trump came to office?

I don’t. I’m saying that post Trump we should now be more aware of the impact discourse and rhetoric has on our collective conscience. His presidency brought into clear focus what we should’ve noticed long ago.

Yes, because before that, the lesson had no examples from which we could learn.

I think that there have always been people who are aware and alive to the impact discourse and rhetoric have on broader society.

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Derek wrote:Is that your kink?

I love seeing cucked twinks. What would that be called? Meta-cuck? Vicarious cuck? Cuck voyerism?
Peda-cuck.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby Derek » 29 October 2021, 23:00

poolerboy0077 wrote:So what’s everyone’s take on the whole Chappelle controversy and Netflix’s CEO’s defense and whatnot?

I watched it and I have some thoughts.

PopTart wrote:The campaign to have chapelle cancelled for speaking about the trans movement, about modern homosexuality, being black and racism in general, I think is the result of people being outraged for the sake of it. Nothing he said was really offensive.

I would characterize many of his jokes as unambiguously transphobic. Dead-naming, making fun of their bodies, calling himself "team TERF", saying (in so many words) that trans women are not women. It was plainly offensive in the cheap and ordinary way casual racism and casual homophobia are offensive. I think about Ben Garrison drawing Michelle Obama as an ape wearing high heels. I think about Kevin Hart saying he'd beat his son straight. These are the kinds of things our culture processes in stages. It's only obvious to most people in retrospect what is and isn't bigotry, because most people need the benefit of overwhelming historical consensus to perceive anything even slightly complex.

What stood out about it to me, though, was that is sucked. It wasn't funny. It was honestly painful to watch, not as a bleeding-heart SJW, but as someone who once had a lot of respect for Dave Chappelle. I felt like I was watching my grandparents do standup. I felt like I was watching Steven Crowder. This is the real casualty of cancel culture. It's made comedians completely unaware of their own grating self-righteousness and humorlessness. So while I don't believe in cancel culture, and I don't think deplatforming is worth doing except in the most egregious instances, when I hear this:

PopTart wrote:I'm tired of people being ruled by twitter mobs, outrage culture and general intolerance of views and opinions that express dissent regarding the current overly moralistic orthodoxy.

I find myself unable to give a shit. Dave Chappelle's special has blackpilled me. There's nothing on either side of this fucking interminable culture war that's worth fighting for.

And of course, pooler is right. Dave Chappelle is a hypocrite and his inability to see the contradictions speak to a lack of empathy and insight. Whatever once made him a great comedian doesn't seem to be there anymore.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby PopTart » 30 October 2021, 07:39

I'm currently watching an old series from the early 2010's called Haven.

It's vaguely supernatural, with a little drama.

It isn't particularly good, it's alright, light entertainment. I can put it on in the background while I potter around the living room.

It does however have two hotties who act as the main love interests for the female lead character. :keke:
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby dseag2 » 3 November 2021, 05:50

The Sinner, Chapelwaite and We're Here.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 7 November 2021, 19:23

Guys. I need you to stop what you’re doing and watch Elite. It’s so good! Has anyone seen it yet?
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby Brenden » 7 November 2021, 19:37

What service is it on?
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 7 November 2021, 21:03

Netflix

At first I thought it was going to be like some cheesy teen drama like Teen Wolf (no offense to fans like Davey and Derek :P) but this is actually really well done. The Spanish have been killing it lately. I also highly, highly recommend Money Heist (Casa de Papel). Both very good but different. Money Heist is closer to the show Homeland because it’s more action packed but the character development is great.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby Derek » 8 November 2021, 01:04

I haven't seen an episode of teen wolf. Everything I know about it came from ~2012 gifs of Dylan O'Brien I saw on tumblr. I've never been able to stand that whole genre young-adult supernatural CW garbage. Maybe the only exception to that is The Magicians which aired on Syfy and was pretty good.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby Brenden » 8 November 2021, 01:18

poolerboy0077 wrote:Netflix

At first I thought it was going to be like some cheesy teen drama like Teen Wolf (no offense to fans like Davey and Derek :P) but this is actually really well done. The Spanish have been killing it lately. I also highly, highly recommend Money Heist (Casa de Papel). Both very good but different. Money Heist is closer to the show Homeland because it’s more action packed but the character development is great.

René’s cousin also recommend Casa de Papel; it took me ages to figure out it was “Money Heist” on Netflix.
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Re: TV Show of the Moment

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 8 November 2021, 02:32

Brenden wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:Netflix

At first I thought it was going to be like some cheesy teen drama like Teen Wolf (no offense to fans like Davey and Derek :P) but this is actually really well done. The Spanish have been killing it lately. I also highly, highly recommend Money Heist (Casa de Papel). Both very good but different. Money Heist is closer to the show Homeland because it’s more action packed but the character development is great.

René’s cousin also recommend Casa de Papel; it took me ages to figure out it was “Money Heist” on Netflix.

:lol: You’re not the only one who’s said that. One of my friends for the longest time thought I was talking about two different shows. I wonder if they opted to choose a different name from “House of Paper” to not get it confused with House of Cards. Then again, there’s a show called Heist, so… :shrug:

Casa de Papel is definitely the better show, but Elite I think is solid. Very likable characters with interesting arcs.
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