Crush on bartender

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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 21 February 2019, 19:23

Thanks, Brasileiro, for your good ideas!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby mxguy01 » 21 February 2019, 20:20

Most people appreciate honestly as well. You could let him know a little about what all was going on with you. I wouldn't go too far into the details just enough so it fills in the puzzle pieces you left him with. LoL. Seriously, nothing wrong with your initial play for a date. Then as stated above "do be sure to pick up on signs..." but now your are looking for signs of interest on his part before you become any more forward with asking for a date again.

Oh, and BTW a big congrats on the coming out to your parents and friends. Especially the parents. I never did come out to my parents and they have passed away; I seriously regret that. It would have been an conflict worth having and perhaps they would have eventually come to accept me for who I am. So keep that in mind if things with your parents takes some effort as it will be well worth it.
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 21 February 2019, 21:37

mxguy01 wrote:Most people appreciate honestly as well. You could let him know a little about what all was going on with you. I wouldn't go too far into the details just enough so it fills in the puzzle pieces you left him with. LoL. Seriously, nothing wrong with your initial play for a date. Then as stated above "do be sure to pick up on signs..." but now your are looking for signs of interest on his part before you become any more forward with asking for a date again.

Oh, and BTW a big congrats on the coming out to your parents and friends. Especially the parents. I never did come out to my parents and they have passed away; I seriously regret that. It would have been an conflict worth having and perhaps they would have eventually come to accept me for who I am. So keep that in mind if things with your parents takes some effort as it will be well worth it.


Thank you, mxguy01, for your thoughts. I was thinking that perhaps I could "level" with him -- confiding that I am a newly-out man. The thing is, he has not said or done anything to identify himself as gay. I guess maybe I could apologize for being so "forward" by assuming he is gay (even though I know he is, but he doesn't know that I know...) Perhaps that would open further dialog.

Thank you for letting me know that there was "nothing wrong with your initial play for a date". And yes, I will be "sure to pick up on signs..."

I think that for now, I will just play it very cool and allow myself a weekly visit to the bar and enjoy his professional company.

Thank you for the congratulations on coming out, too. It's been a big step! Although, in a way, it's not a real big deal to anyone else. My parents and close friends have been nothing but completely accepting and supportive. And, no one has been all that surprised! LOL So I am very, very blessed in that way.

Thanks again to you and other forum members for such constructive feedback!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby mxguy01 » 21 February 2019, 23:51

Forgot to put this in the other post.
The "Who are you out to" thread is an interesting read. And yes, I guess we all discover being out is about us as in ourselves; not others.

relationships-sex-and-sexuality/who-are-you-out-to-t210/#p2670
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 25 February 2019, 23:14

The saga continues! Went back to the bar last Saturday night. It had been 13 days since the last time I saw my bartender guy and asked him out.

I figured I'd just sit there alone like I've done before, keep things mellow and chat him up a little more and just kinda hang out but not really make any "moves" again -- yet. Well the unexpected pleasant surprise was that I sat next to three really friendly guys -- one straight, and two gay (a couple). The straight guy was there on vacation and he started talking to me so that was nice and allowed me to be "otherwise engaged" instead of just (discreetly) eyeing my crush. But still getting him used to me and seeing how I am with others. Well the straight guy had to go but then these other two guys, who are a couple, took me under their wing and oh my gosh they were just so nice and encouraging! They even bought me a shot of Patron and showed me how to drink it (licking the salted rim and then sucking on the lime). All new stuff for me! Anyway, this was after two beers, and before some Irish coffee....needless to say I was feeling relaxed, as were they. A Carpenters song was playing and so that launched the older guy and me into singing. All the while my bartender crush was keeping busy and at least I was there, but distracted!

So -- I just wanted to report that I was able to go back "to the scene of the crime", and was able to keep myself fairly composed and didn't suffer any "crash" afterwards (although, I found myself awakening very early this morning feeling rather "verklempt" -- but nothing TOO bad like before...)

Also, we were talking with the bartender and he related that he was working until at least 11pm that night, and had to be back on-shift in the morning at 8am. We thought that was crazy and felt so sorry for him! Well then I remembered something I'd read somewhere that talked about how if you want to do a nice thing for a bartender, bring him/her a Red Bull. A HA! So, the next morning, I got up earlier than I needed to, picked up a Red Bull and popped into the bar and handed it to my guy. He wasn't behind the bar, but over at a register ringing up a tab. So I just quickly came up to him and said, "I thought you could use this" and set the drink down and gave him a quick little pat on the shoulder and that was it. I hardly looked at him!

So -- that's the latest in my saga. Thanks guys for reading and for your support! It means so much!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby Eryx » 26 February 2019, 04:14

Awesome. That's how you do it. As for how you were feeling the next day, alcohol does have a way to bring that along. Here in Brazil we call it a moral hangover. It comes even when you haven't done anything thar crazy. Anxiety. But it washes over.
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 27 February 2019, 02:26

Eryx wrote:Awesome. That's how you do it. As for how you were feeling the next day, alcohol does have a way to bring that along. Here in Brazil we call it a moral hangover. It comes even when you haven't done anything thar crazy. Anxiety. But it washes over.


Thank you, Eryx, for your thoughts!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 27 February 2019, 02:41

I've been thinking about how I might proceed.

This guy drives me crazy, but I should point out that it's not only on a lust level. Indeed, I am overwhelmed by a more emotional -- dare I say, spiritual dimension. Yes, of course, relationships are combinations of emotional/spiritual/sexual connections. But in this case, I guess what I am trying to emphasize is that my intense draw towards him is such that I feel a desire foremost to be "just friends" -- not that friendship is somehow inferior to a full-fledged "lover" relationship. I am thinking along the lines of "shooting" for a "date" -- but being more than happy even if it's a "non-date", and more of simply a "buddy hangout" event. Does this makes sense.?

Let me rephrase this. I was thinking of asking him out again for a drink, and saying something like, "I'm not sure if that qualifies as a 'date' (I don't know if he's single or interested in a 'date') -- but if not, how about just hanging out as friends -- no expectations; in fact, if you've already got a boyfriend, bring him along!" Is this "shooting myself in the foot" and putting myself in the "friend zone" prematurely? The bottom line here is, OK, I really want to date this guy. But if he's not single or not interested, I would still be more than happy to just be friends. Because I just want to get to know him, outside of our pleasant "bartender/customer" relationship. I guess I am bargaining, or looking to make a compromise. But then -- if he does go for the "just friends" option, am I just setting myself up to be friends, yes, but then torture myself by knowing him only as a friend? Or could I be happy with just that? I think I could! Or am I just deceiving myself? Yikes! This is complicated and maybe I am making it more complicated than necessary. Phew! OK you experts out there in LoveLand, can you unpack this mess? LOL Thanks so much!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby Eryx » 27 February 2019, 12:12

I don't know how to answer that one, it's entirely up to you! Friendships can develop into something else later if he starts getting to know you and likes what he sees. It's a way forward, definitely. It's not really important for you to define if it's a date or not, anyway. What matters more is him saying yes.
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 28 February 2019, 18:11

Eryx wrote:I don't know how to answer that one, it's entirely up to you! Friendships can develop into something else later if he starts getting to know you and likes what he sees. It's a way forward, definitely. It's not really important for you to define if it's a date or not, anyway. What matters more is him saying yes.


Thanks, Eryx! You've distilled my question into a clear answer!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 2 March 2019, 04:10

So I've been thinking about my next move. Here are several different angles I've come up with.

1) The "humorous" style -- "Hey, I feel like I know you from a past life or something; freaky, huh?"

2) The "buddy" approach -- "So I've been meaning to try out that new brewery; wanna go with?"

3) The "leveling"/"honest" tack -- "Look, I'm really drawn to you; I feel like we have a lot in common; life is short; wanna go out?" Note: this could scare him off possibly. I think there is a fine line between honesty and "scariness"

4) The "don't want to put him on the spot" / "don't want to make it awkward by asking him out while he's on the clock as a bartender" factor -- so, is a short note passed discreetly more appropriate?

Thanks for your thoughts!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 3 March 2019, 17:30

So I went back to the bar last night and tried making a move. But I think I fumbled it a bit. And, I can't deny some evidence that my guy is somewhat uncomfortable.

As soon as I sat at the bar, my guy Matthew asked if I wanted "the usual" (a beer on tap). I decided to switch things up and ordered a Moscow Mule.

Within a few minutes, Matthew was talking to his manager off in a corner, in a very huddled and discreet manner. Uh oh. Matthew disappeared and the manager told me that he sent Matthew on lunch, but that he, Luis, would be taking care of me.

Damn. Now how am I going to ask Matthew out? I nursed my drink. Ordered a second one. Some water. Some more water. Finally, Matthew returns. He's zipping around, very busy with taking care of everyone else. It's kind of noisy in there and I'm trying to figure out how to catch him and wondering exactly what to say.

After quite a while, I flag him down and start out by saying, "I want to ask you something". I ask him, "so you know why I'm always coming here, right?" He plays dumb (maybe he really doesn't know, but I doubt it) and suggests "it's cheaper here?"

At this point I'm getting a little flustered and high on adrenaline and remember -- I have never asked out a guy before in my life. I'm trying to think straight but am excited and scared all at once.

I don't really remember what exactly I said, but I blurted out something to the effect of "I wondered if you'd like to go get a drink with me sometime..." and then added, "as friends!" I immediately started "backpedaling" and saying too much at once. I felt bad because I felt like I was putting him on the spot, and that it could be awkward to ask him while he's working, etc. So I apologized and got all shy and wishy-washy and told him I hoped I didn't make him feel weird. I also said something like, "well, you are probably involved with someone already.." and then this is the interesting part. He got rather shy and smiled a little and said something like, "well, not really..." -- as if to say, "I'm single" in a roundabout way. I said something like, "wow, how come? -- intending to compliment him by suggesting he's a catch and surely must already be taken. Then he said something vague like, "because SHE works here..." OK so that must have been some decoy move because this guy is as gay as sure as the sun rises in the east..

Ugh. Let's breathe.

So then I'm feeling awkward and I tried to say something to the effect, like, "oh gosh I'm sorry, I don't want to put you on the spot but I just feel like I could talk with you and that we have things in common..." Again, my recollection of all of this is hazy and mixed up. I should have recorded this whole conversation with my phone so that, like a plane's black box, I could go back later and do a post-mortem! LOL

Well then this is where I got really confused. Because Matthew just remained very polite and gracious and said something like, "oh, no, you're fine" and/or "it's no problem" -- absolving me of my guilt of being too pushy I guess.

So he then just continues working and zipping around and it's like he just sort of glossed over the whole thing and never gave me a "yes" or a "no". I had already figured that if he gave me a "no" to a "date", that I'd then counter with a "how about we grab a beer, just as friends -- no expectations" -- in a light-hearted way.

But there was no answer. And I didn't feel like "pinning him down" anymore. I had already launched a couple missles. No need to nuke him, I thought.

So I'm feeling confused and weird and stuck in some sort of limbo. Matthew isn't acting overtly upset or anything and he keeps asking me if I'd like another drink, or just some more water. I get more water because I've got to dilute the booze so I can drive home.

I sit there for quite a while longer and I feel like I'm really starting to be a creep for just hanging out and waiting for Matthew to say something more to me. At this point I think I am the only person at the bar. It's early still (around 7pm)

I try to leave but I don't want to before saying "goodbye" to Matthew. Finally, I catch him and tell him "hey thanks, I'll see you next time" -- and I tack on some little "and hey maybe we can get a beer sometime..." or something like that.

WHEW! So I leave. I am not feeling too bad, and I certainly don't let myself show any sadness or disappointment. I try to hold my head high and smile and all of that.

So. Now. I feel very good for "going for it", and accomplishing something I've never done. But, I also feel like I really did fumble things and should have been more upfront and decisive, instead of pussy-footing around and being too vague. But, I was just trying to ask him out gently, I guess. UGH! I am such a noob!

Well bottom line is, I think I need to let this rest for a while. Maybe a couple weeks. And then stop by again and this time, tighten up the sequence and perhaps try another strike with much more swiftness.

I am exhausted! LOL

So -- I know the jury may say, "forget about this guy, don't go back, move on, don't torture yourself". But I'd still like to at least be friends. Not sure if that's possible. But I'm just so intrigued by this guy. If not as a boyfriend, then just as a friend. I don't have very many gay friends at all and could use another one!

Sorry this is so long. For those of you you have managed to get through this book, thank you for reading!
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Не очень!

Unread postby cska66635l » 3 March 2019, 18:54

клева)
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby Brasileiro » 4 March 2019, 10:00

Dear BlueBoy19. You are trying to hard. You feel you have to do certain things, and have to say certain things and ypu push ypurself so hard it blocks the natural flow of events.
I am pretty sure Matthew knows exactly what you want but he is either not too keen or you do not give him the space to actually respond because you talk too much in an apologetic way.

Also the fact that he mentions a she can have several reasons. Like some female is watching him so he has no chance of making date appointments and this female might be a relative , friend or just a jealous collegue. Or, you have to face the facts, it might be he wan´ts to make clear there is no way he would go out with you in a nice way. There is a think like bi sexuality, so there can be a female love interest even if he also gives of gay signals. But if there is a she in that way, he would be saying he was seeing someone and not deny it...

I suggest that next time he says something like that or anything that makes you think "whoa what does it mean" that you actually ask him "WHAT DO YOU MEAN?"
The problem with you is that you get your brain in overdrive and it is not processing anything and it makes you talk instead of listening carefully. That is not your fault, it is what it is, but try to be more of a listener and inguirer.
Think of it like you have to ask this for a friend and report later.

What I would do is just keep going there and talk to him the way you used to, about all kinds of subjects and not with the thought you need to ask him out. Just enjoy the time you spend with him.
I think there might come a moment were it is way natural to fit in the question if he wants to go somewhere with you. Like if you have talked about movies, if he would like to come to the cinema, or whatever the subject is, think of something you could do together in that fashion.
But do not plan your conversations on forehand. Just let things happen. But be aware of oportunities. And just ask the one question. And let it land. Only speak if he asks you something about it and answer the question, no extra babble.
If you do not get a clear answer you just say "Sorry, it is not clear to me if you will or will not?" And you can even add "ever" to be absolutely sure.

If you are really brave you could ask "What did you mean by you are not seeing anyone because she works here? Who is "she" , your mother, or what? And bring it light, not a accusing, of course. (It might acually be his mother watching him... :) )
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 4 March 2019, 21:21

Brasileiro wrote:Dear BlueBoy19. You are trying to hard. You feel you have to do certain things, and have to say certain things and ypu push ypurself so hard it blocks the natural flow of events.
I am pretty sure Matthew knows exactly what you want but he is either not too keen or you do not give him the space to actually respond because you talk too much in an apologetic way.

Also the fact that he mentions a she can have several reasons. Like some female is watching him so he has no chance of making date appointments and this female might be a relative , friend or just a jealous collegue. Or, you have to face the facts, it might be he wan´ts to make clear there is no way he would go out with you in a nice way. There is a think like bi sexuality, so there can be a female love interest even if he also gives of gay signals. But if there is a she in that way, he would be saying he was seeing someone and not deny it...

I suggest that next time he says something like that or anything that makes you think "whoa what does it mean" that you actually ask him "WHAT DO YOU MEAN?"
The problem with you is that you get your brain in overdrive and it is not processing anything and it makes you talk instead of listening carefully. That is not your fault, it is what it is, but try to be more of a listener and inguirer.
Think of it like you have to ask this for a friend and report later.

What I would do is just keep going there and talk to him the way you used to, about all kinds of subjects and not with the thought you need to ask him out. Just enjoy the time you spend with him.
I think there might come a moment were it is way natural to fit in the question if he wants to go somewhere with you. Like if you have talked about movies, if he would like to come to the cinema, or whatever the subject is, think of something you could do together in that fashion.
But do not plan your conversations on forehand. Just let things happen. But be aware of oportunities. And just ask the one question. And let it land. Only speak if he asks you something about it and answer the question, no extra babble.
If you do not get a clear answer you just say "Sorry, it is not clear to me if you will or will not?" And you can even add "ever" to be absolutely sure.

If you are really brave you could ask "What did you mean by you are not seeing anyone because she works here? Who is "she" , your mother, or what? And bring it light, not a accusing, of course. (It might acually be his mother watching him... :) )


Dear Brasileiro,

Thank you so very much for your feedback and suggestions. I appreciate your thoughtful response more than you know. You have made made me feel much better about my situation, and have given me hope for the future.

I realize now that I have been trying too hard. And yes indeed, I will return and talk less and listen more.

I am also wondering if Matthew was acknowledging that I was getting somewhat drunk -- which made me more "babbly" than I might otherwise have been. Perhaps when he told me, "oh, you're fine..." it was to let me know that I wasn't as out-of-control and/or rude and/or offensive as others he's witnessed who are "under the influence".

My one fear now is that I've become a "creeper" (I'm not sure what the contemporary term is for someone who is, uh, overly enthusiastic). Because I have this feeling that the bar staff has got me on their "most wanted list" of strange people who come by a little too often. I don't know. Maybe not. But I just have that feeling that they're talking about me -- Matthew's "stalker".

Still, I would like to return soon and let things flow more organically and without any pretense or pre-meditation, per your advice. What I am wondering now is, how soon would it be appropriate to return? A few days? A week? Two weeks? I am at once anxious to "scoop him up", and, "give him space".

Thank you, again, for your invaluable insights!

Regards,
David (BlueBoy19)
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby Brasileiro » 4 March 2019, 23:52

Dear David. It is a bar, a public space where they would like as many costumer possible per day. They would be happy to see you every single day, whole day, do not worry about that. Actually, most bars have regulars that seem to live there. The TV series "Cheers" was made around that....
Matthew is a bartender and he will be happy to serve you and listen to whatever you want to tell him even if it is every day. It comes with the job.
Having a crush on a bartender is not uncommon and they have ways to deal with it. The fact that he has not been harsh to you or clearly told you that you have to stop bothering him, I guess he is at least not bothered by it and maybe even flattered.

You do not need to give him time or space. You have not hurt him or offended him. You might have been a bit unclear with your intentions, but as long as you are not physically removed or shouted at, you have not gone too far and welcome to come back anytime you feel like it.
However if he keeps disappearing for some time every time you make your entrance, that might be a sign that he had enough...

Did he ever offer you a drink on the house? That would be a sign that he likes to have you around.
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 5 March 2019, 00:20

Dear Brasileiro,

Thank you for your reassurance.

I am glad to know that my actions are not hurtful or offensive. I suppose that bartenders are rather used to all sorts of comments from customers, and that mine were quite innocuous.

Yes, I think he may have been flattered or at least amused by my feeble attempt to ask him out. And, I probably derailed him by the way I was so apologetic and babbly.

I am hopeful that since he didn't really give me a definite "no", there could be *some* chance of at least a friendship.

He hasn't offered me a drink on the house though. Not yet.

Yeah, the disappearing act has happened a few times, although I like to think that maybe, just maybe, it's not just me. Because really, I am very careful to NOT just stare at him, or even "flirt" other than to just ask him things like, "how's your day going?" and "so tell me more about your trip to Hawaii". But he's almost always on the run and does not seem to stop long enough to really chat, other than to ask if I'd like another drink. But come to think of it, I've noticed he's the same way with everyone! I mean, he's not like that cliche of the bartender who just stands and listens to everyone, wiping down the bar, and acting as confidant/counselor to the troubled souls coming through. It's not that Matthew is not friendly, but he's just really busy (he is filling orders for waiters for the restaurant also). Come to think of it, though, I was there one afternoon when it was really slow, and we had time to chit-chat more about this and that.

I've also noticed that the other bartenders are kind of the same way, as far as running around and disappearing here and there. I think it's just the type of place it is. Not so much a bar as a restaurant with a bar in it. So maybe they're just multi-tasking or whatever.

Thanks again for your help sorting this through. I am forever grateful!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby acpro » 5 March 2019, 04:17

I think when you first come out and you don't have a lot of experience with meeting a lot of guys of your same orientation, it is reallllyy easy to get stuck on one guy. It makes sense because they're the first person you met since being out and they might be all you really know at that point.

That happened to me when I first came out. It was like 10 years ago so not nearly as many people were out then and I met one guy who I thought was good enough and I thought I was good to go. I was sooo wrong. There are so many other guys out there.

I would suggest getting on Tinder, bumble, or even Grindr and try to meet some new people! There are plenty of fish in the sea who won't make you question every move you make.
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby BlueBoy19 » 5 March 2019, 20:07

acpro wrote:I think when you first come out and you don't have a lot of experience with meeting a lot of guys of your same orientation, it is reallllyy easy to get stuck on one guy. It makes sense because they're the first person you met since being out and they might be all you really know at that point.

That happened to me when I first came out. It was like 10 years ago so not nearly as many people were out then and I met one guy who I thought was good enough and I thought I was good to go. I was sooo wrong. There are so many other guys out there.

I would suggest getting on Tinder, bumble, or even Grindr and try to meet some new people! There are plenty of fish in the sea who won't make you question every move you make.


Thank you for your feedback, Acpro!

The interesting thing about this guy (Matthew) is that I feel like he's the one who got me to come out in the first place. I've run into all sorts of other guys who've turned me on, but Matthew was just over the top. Before, I just put the brakes on, keeping myself locked up and in the closet and never admitting to anyone that a guy was exciting me. But Matthew-- I was just so smitten that I didn't care any more and was ready to tell the world! That's basically how I came out to my parents and some close friends -- admitting that there was this guy who had turned my world upside down!
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Re: Crush on bartender

Unread postby Eryx » 7 March 2019, 16:49

I tend to agree with Alex, he isn't really as special as your head makes you think he is. But I'm not saying that to invalidate how important he was to you when it comes to facing your true feelings and identity. It won't hurt to try. But I'm concerned you'll take it too badly if he doesn't reciprocate. Just be aware that there are other fish and that it's highly likely you'll feel the same way about someone else in the future, or even more infatuated than you are right now.

Let us know how things go.
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Eryx
 
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