Finding connections on gay apps?

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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby theoux » 27 July 2020, 23:05

sailinguser wrote:I have to say that I'm currently sour on the idea that it's worth the time to try to cultivate high-quality friendships on apps. There are high-quality people on every app, even Grindr. But I think any app will always tend to be an inefficient place to make friends. People who already have plenty of friends aren't trying to make new friends on an app--those people are just trying to get a date or get laid. And people who are trying to make friends on the apps tend to be unskillful at being good friends in the first place (e.g., desperate, clingy, whiny, assume negative intent, easily wounded, etc.).

There really is no substitute for making friends IRL over shared interests. If you're intent on making gay friends, try gay singing groups, gay sports, gay community centers, gay fundraising organizations, gay business groups, etc. These aren't hypothetical suggestions--I have made great friends in each of these kinds of groups. If there aren't any gay groups in your city, then get used to driving or hanging out with the straights! I would rather (and have at times) drive to the nearest metro regularly to spend time with high-quality friends than to be without any friends.


Hi Sailinguser,

thanks for your input. you make a few absolute statements like apps never being suitable for finding connection and socially inept people relying on apps. You believe this is the case 100% of the time?
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby sailinguser » 27 July 2020, 23:25

No, definitely it’s not true 100%. There are definitely some high-quality guys on the apps who are amazing at cultivating Aristotelian philia who are open to serendipitously building a new friendship through an app, but I feel like those are such the rare exception that’s it’s a very inefficient use of time to find those guys.
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby theoux » 28 July 2020, 09:51

sailinguser wrote:No, definitely it’s not true 100%. There are definitely some high-quality guys on the apps who are amazing at cultivating Aristotelian philia who are open to serendipitously building a new friendship through an app, but I feel like those are such the rare exception that’s it’s a very inefficient use of time to find those guys.


Thanks for your response Sailinguser. How rare would you say that it is for people to find friendships, relationships, or even a connection before having sex?
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby sailinguser » 28 July 2020, 13:54

I’m struggling to anchor that question in the context you’re thinking.

I haven’t had sex with the vast majority of people in my life, and I believe that’s fairly typical.

Are you asking about sex before dating? Maybe you’re asking me how often does one gay man meet another for an as-yet-undefined type of relationship and it turns into friendship before they have sex?

If that’s what you’re asking me, I’d say that it’s been my experience that guys who are skillful at building and maintaining strong, long-lasting, high-quality friendships do not typically engage in the practice of “seeing what happens” with regard to relationships—they are far more intentional about keeping romantic partners and friends separate; they keep their channels for making new friends completely separate from the channels for meeting new romantic partners because it’s far more efficient and avoids the confusion that arises from that kind of ambiguity. Of course it happens sometimes that you stumble upon someone who fits extremely well as a friend in one of the romantic channels and someone who fits extremely well as a husband or fuck buddy in one of the friendship channels, but the key difference is that wasn’t the point or the intent. This is exactly why is hard to make high-quality friends on Grindr (or Scruff or Tinder or okCupid or whatever)... because the guys who are good at making friends are in a different mindset when they’re on those apps. They’re looking for a date or a hookup, not a friend. They have different, more efficient channels for making high-quality friends (which they don’t often really even have to tap into because they tend to keep friends for a long time).

IMO, the guys who are unintentional about segregating these channels (romantic vs. platonic) are self-identifying as unskillful at building and maintaining philia; they fail to segregate because they’re desperate for connection so they’re willing to put up with a lot of inefficiency and nonsense to try to find connection; they tend to make low-quality friends because they don’t possess the skills to make friendships last.
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby theoux » 28 July 2020, 14:24

Hi SailingUser,

I think we might be missing each other. Overall I am curious about the user's ability to find connection on a gay app. It can be platonic or romantic as long as its just not a "wham bam thank you ma'am." I'm not really concerned about the development of the connection as this is really human behavior which is unpredictable and not my decision. You made a few "black and white" comments, some of which you repeated like "guys compartmentalizing their friends and romantic interests, guys desperate for connection lack social skills, and guys who are good at making friends don't really use the apps as a friend finder." I am not trying to change your mind or discredit your experiences but these are pretty resolute statements which don't really take culture, age, life-circumstances, life-stage, and maybe even personality into account. Some people use the apps when they are traveling to make friends with the locals for instance. Furthermore, several people on here mentioned finding romantic and friendships on apps; Brendan and Rene wrote of being curious about adding a 3rd to their relationship; they found connections on both grindr and Tinder. How do they fit into your theory on how/why people use apps for connections? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I really wanted to understand the extent to which you believed your assumptions. Maybe we missed each other by thinking I'm talking only about friendships?
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby sailinguser » 28 July 2020, 16:23

Perhaps we are missing each other. I sense you may be ESL, and are not picking up on my word choice to avoid making absolute statements. I use the phrase "tend to" a lot to indicate that nothing is absolute.

We are also probably using the terms "friends" differently. I am using in the sense of philia... strong, long-lasting friendship that rises to the level of platonic love. You seem to be using it more as an acquaintance: "traveling to make friends with the locals" is certainly a casual use of the term "friend" in English, but that's not what I've been talking about. But perhaps this can be further illustrative of my point...

Things dating/hookup apps are good for: sex, dates, shallow conversation, making new acquaintances, attempting to build philia with those who are unskillful at it (an exercise in frustration, IMO)

Things dating/hookup apps are NOT good for: building philia with other men who are very good at philia
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby theoux » 28 July 2020, 17:23

sailinguser wrote:Perhaps we are missing each other. I sense you may be ESL, and are not picking up on my word choice to avoid making absolute statements. I use the phrase "tend to" a lot to indicate that nothing is absolute.

We are also probably using the terms "friends" differently. I am using in the sense of philia... strong, long-lasting friendship that rises to the level of platonic love. You seem to be using it more as an acquaintance: "traveling to make friends with the locals" is certainly a casual use of the term "friend" in English, but that's not what I've been talking about. But perhaps this can be further illustrative of my point...

Things dating/hookup apps are good for: sex, dates, shallow conversation, making new acquaintances, attempting to build philia with those who are unskillful at it (an exercise in frustration, IMO)

Things dating/hookup apps are NOT good for: building philia with other men who are very good at philia



Thanks for being cool. I assure you I am not ESL. Im American. "Tend to" still sounds rather matter of factly; to me thats like a 60-85% likelihood. Id say "Some" is a good 30-45%..i wasnt sure and so thats why i asked you to scale assumptions.

Anyway, I wholeheartedly disagree that people who seek relationships/connections on apps are socially/emotionally inept or that guys who have tons of friends are better adjusted at maintaining relationships etc. Utterly Ridiculous. No offense, it just doesnt seem mature or thoughtful. I tried to gently steer you from this by getting you to consider other factors especially, given that other users have painstakingly described the connections made on apps; none of which you acknowledged btw. All of which to me suggests you aren't opening to challenging your "tend to" assumption; it might as well be absolute.

More importantly, its harmful to make such claims when many users rely on apps to find connections. People have been really vulnerable in this space some of yoir comments kinda shitted on them. Im not censoring you and id like to continue engaging. My point is that everybody deserves love and care, and freedom to pursue it however they see fit. In order for this to be a safe environment for everyone, we all have to keep our life experience in perspective and allow others to have theirs. Please advise along the way which you did with the meetup idea. However, You take it too far when you start making personality claims about people you dont even know. Its actually inappropriate.

Furthermore, I think all onboard agree that apps currently are not conducive to connections. The purpose of this thread was to figure how to improve them. If I recall correctly, you are against doing this; we've already discussed your supporting reasons. Again, i dont believe in defining people's experiences. Only interested in people having experiences that dont revolve around sex. You interjected friends and its related definitions lol which is fine but its too specific and out of anybodys control (except those.involved).
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby sailinguser » 28 July 2020, 17:43

This is quite harsh. Do you explode at others often? Do you often find yourself resorting to ad hominem when others challenge your views ("doesn't seem mature or thoughtful")?

I'm simply describing reality, and stating that apps are not great places for philia. This information should not cause offense or invalidate another's experience. It akin to my saying, "Bathhouses are not awesome places to find dates." I think most would agree with that statement, not because there aren't great guys who go to bathhouses, but because those guys aren't typically in the mindset of looking for dates and are thus closed off to it, generally speaking. If a guy tried to set up a date with me at a bathhouse and we hadn't hooked up first and had a great time during said hookup, I would think he were off.

I also keep reiterating that apps are fine for romantic relationships. I've been trying to isolate the discussion to high-quality platonic friendships.
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby theoux » 28 July 2020, 20:50

Hi SailingUser,

Im sorry you believe i threw an adhominem attack at you. In my opinion, I tried to avoid this by mentioning my reactions to your comments not you as a person. People, myself included, say stuff they dont mean all the time or maybe had limited info at the time. I dont think you as a person is immature or not thoughtful.

First, i dont know why you isolated the discussion onto deep friendships when thats not what this forum was about lol. But i will go with it. Its one thing to say that people who use apps arent looking for deep friendships fine. I agree. But its really unfair to say people who rely on apps to find deep friendships are somehow emotionally stunted. Ive studied all the apps and i have even yet to see a profile where the person is saying they are looking for deep friendships. All friendships, online or offline, take time so of course an app wouldnt facilitate that. Anyway, users mainly want a coffee date or they are someone who has moved to a new city. This is whom i thought you were talking about or atleast not considering, hence my reaction. How do you go from wanting coffee to wanting a deep philia to being emotionally off for wanting deep philia? lol maybe you didnt mean and you were trying to be hypothetical..i dont know lol.

Also, i cant find anything where you mention apps being good for relationships but not deep friendships. How do you figure given that relationships are more of an emotional/time investment?

No hard feelings. sorry i offended you. As its my forum, i just felt protective of other users. i dont think you are immature and unthoughtful.


sailinguser wrote:This is quite harsh. Do you explode at others often? Do you often find yourself resorting to ad hominem when others challenge your views ("doesn't seem mature or thoughtful")?

I'm simply describing reality, and stating that apps are not great places for philia. This information should not cause offense or invalidate another's experience. It akin to my saying, "Bathhouses are not awesome places to find dates." I think most would agree with that statement, not because there aren't great guys who go to bathhouses, but because those guys aren't typically in the mindset of looking for dates and are thus closed off to it, generally speaking. If a guy tried to set up a date with me at a bathhouse and we hadn't hooked up first and had a great time during said hookup, I would think he were off.

I also keep reiterating that apps are fine for romantic relationships. I've been trying to isolate the discussion to high-quality platonic friendships.
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby PopTart » 28 July 2020, 21:10

Whelp, here goes. I should have realised you had an ongoing thread on this subject already theoux :P

In advance, my TV is my monitor right now and while its mahussive, I can't quite make out the onscreen text, from over here in my sofa. Be warned.

I have rarely, if ever, found an meaningful connections on dating apps.

I would first posit that a substantial part of that outcome, is because I prefer to build, in person relationships, where I have access to the full spectrum of human interactions. Verbal, visual etc. I use inflection and gesticulating a great deal to convey both intent and meaning and feeling too. While emojis and similar digital facsimiles attempt to mimic these behaviours, they are often times cumbersome, time consuming and inefficient. I rather rely on in person meetings and relationship development.

The other side of the equation, I put down to the convenient yet time expensive nature of digital communication mediums. It takes twice as long, to say half as much on a dating app, than it would in person and yet it is easier and more convenient to pass up on an uncertain prospect, than persevere. One doesn't need to.

What little had been invested already can be considered an acceptable lose (time, marginal effort) when the promise of better prospect is but a swipe away. Why waste more time?

Thus, unless some manner of immediate connection is made (which, for some of us is just very long odds) or some commitment to short term reward (sex for example) users are going to move along fairly quickly. There is little incentive to stick around, that comes from the app itself and instead relies on the fleeting chances of compatibility early on or during the initial hook up.

What could an app do to change these conditions? I will say that whatsapps voice message recorder is a friendship saver for me, as there have been a number friends, with whom our relationships have had to rely on digital formats, due to distance becoming an issue, that had we had only text based service to rely on, I suspect we would have drifted apart, because it's damn time cosuming maintaining and real number of meaningful, digital relationships at once (platonic or otherwise.)

So a social or dating app that built into it, a clear means of leaving easy voice messages would be advantageous, one that allowed for arranging specific, phonecall dates (with a much catchier term) and set facetime dates, could a good means of overcoming that hurdle. At present, to my knowledge, most apps allow for such things, calls, facetime etc, but none really present it in a way that makes it seem like a fun feature and this, utilisation is low.
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby theoux » 30 July 2020, 15:29

Hi SailingUser,

I needed a break. Yes I overreacted. I apologize mate. Thanks for your contributions

Best.

Theo
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Re: Finding connections on gay apps?

Unread postby Dave67 » 1 August 2020, 04:31

I tried grindr the other night and a couple nights after with no luck. Saw very little that interested me and a lot of trolls that talk a big game but are only there to get their jollies off looking at the pics you send them.
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