Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby PopTart » 5 March 2022, 22:13

lostinspace94 wrote:
PopTart wrote:At the risk of sounding like a cunt and possibly upsetting you, having been following your problem for sometime, I get the distinct impression, that the problem is you.

You often speak about the people you meet in quite unflattering terms, you talk about other people like you don't hold them in very high regard and if that is how you come across online, perhaps your coming across that way in RL too.

I'm not saying this is the case, I'm not saying you are as dismissive and shallow in your real life as I perceive you to be online but you spend a lot of time talking about how awesome you are and how people never quite measure upto to your standards and expectations.

That can be a bit off putting.


Feedback never upsets me, it is very welcome! :)
Yup I sense the issue is me but I am genuinely unsure what the issue is and I have tried a lot of therapy. I am wondering if a LGBT group therapy is a good next step?
If people meet me for sex, but barely speak to me, or return, there is not much opportunity for me to 'judge' them or for them to 'judge' me right? Also, if they never meet me for a date, or agree in the app but never meet me / vanish, not sure why they would agree and/or not want to meet in person. I actually would prefer feedback like 'you are not nice' 'i did not feel chemistry' etc as that is actually useful for me to learn how I come across. But vanishing or talking to me but never meeting is not helping me go through the full feedback loop, hence my concern.
Basically, I was meeting guys in person for dates and then being rejected actually that would be more insightful and helpful (as everyone goes through, as I'm not expecting to click / be liked by every guy either) but I'm not even getting that opportunity. That is the issue. I'm not sure what you mean by 'how people never quite measure up to my standards and expectations' when my only request is a coffee or even a repeat sexual experience with the same man.

So, between this thread and when you have brought this topic up in the past, there is a running theme, which is often that guys are drawn to you physically, but they don't really want to know on a more serious level. Poz is right to a degree that some of this, likely is more the result of hook up culture. Its also not unusual for people to advertise that they are looking for something more, when infact they aren't, as a means of hooking a fish, so to speak. So that does likely play into it.

But you have also mentioned that the guys who have expressed a more significant interest, haven't appealed to you in some way. I think I recall you stating that they either didn't check a box for you in terms of appearance or there was no sense of engagement on your part and so you haven't sought to pursue things further.

Granted I may be recollecting erroneously. But that was a sense I got from your posts on the topic previously.

I have found myself wondering, if perhaps, you may be a victim, of the very behaviour, you yourself have exhibited with others previously.

We live in a dating culture that makes it very easy to move on, if you don't get a "click" right away. Sticking around and investing time and energy when there is no assurance of something developing, just isn't worth it anymore (which I'm not supporting) if there isn't that initial connection or buzz.

It's entirely possible, that you have inadvertently, done to others what you feel is being done to you. Not out of any maliciousness, but simply, that's how it is now, you just didn't see it when you weren't on the receiving end.

Thats alot of hypothesising on my part, so please don't misconstrue my words as carrying any moral or personal judgement.

I do find it unusual that you have been unable to even get someone to stick around long enough to strike up a conversation with though.

I'd suggest trying to meet guys just to socialise and for conversation and try to form some connections that way. But I vaguely recall you having tried that before? And it wasn't working out well? Am I recalling that right?

I think I recall you saying you had difficulty being patient with some guys. Again, I could be misattributing that statement to you when it was said by someone else in a thread in which you were discussing this matter. Correct me I'm wrong.

My whole point is, if you arr a difficult person to get to know already, with a complex personality, your gonna struggle in short form, quick fire dating situations.

You need to go out of your way to date in more long form formats.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 5 March 2022, 22:37

pozzie wrote:In terms of hookups and generally flakiness, none of this comes as a surprise. Please remember that hookups are one-offs and even if contact info is exchanged, it's generally not expected that it will be used. It's just a sad fact.

I wonder how many not-quite-single people are using dating apps, to test the waters and such. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Group therapy might be an option - it might provide the feedback loop you are looking for. Not sure that it could do harm, unless especially poorly facilitated.


How do you find someone otherwise? I've never made a gay connection outside of apps tbh.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby PopTart » 5 March 2022, 22:45

lostinspace94 wrote:
pozzie wrote:In terms of hookups and generally flakiness, none of this comes as a surprise. Please remember that hookups are one-offs and even if contact info is exchanged, it's generally not expected that it will be used. It's just a sad fact.

I wonder how many not-quite-single people are using dating apps, to test the waters and such. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Group therapy might be an option - it might provide the feedback loop you are looking for. Not sure that it could do harm, unless especially poorly facilitated.


How do you find someone otherwise? I've never made a gay connection outside of apps tbh.

:lol: I shouldn't laugh. Sorry. But, the answer is quite obvious. Or it should be.

You go to places, where other gay men congregate, this could be bars or clubs if that is your thing or find professional or personal interest groups that cater towards gay men and you go there and strike up conversations.

You know, how people did this stuff, for the last twelve thousand years prior to the year 2000.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 6 March 2022, 05:30

Dont gay men congregate on apps too though? I know many couples who met through hookups, dates or similar and I am sure the men who go to meetups also use the apps so I don't get how going to a bar/club is different to using an app for a date?

Thanks for the links though, will take a look.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby pozzie » 6 March 2022, 08:47

Yeah, guys probably meet because of apps and yes, sometimes a hookup turns into more, but let's step back a second - you say you use apps to meet men but using apps hasn't been a success (yet). So why would you assume that continued reliance on apps is going to give a different result in the future? Sure, if you tried Grindr one time and your 'date' never materialized, I'd say, try it some more. But what number generates the error message, "This is not working for me"?

Okay, when the apps aren't working, one question is, is you presence on the app(s) up to standards for that app? I can't answer this since 1) I don't use apps for dating, 2) I don't know what your app presence looks like. If you had any gay friends in real life you trusted, getting their feedback would help. Maybe a change will make you more marketable? You really need an app guru to offer you more and specific advice there. However, one overriding question about apps is, are people using this app to hookup or find a long-term relationship? I don't care what the apps tell you or allow you to choose, what matters is how guys are actually using the app.

If you want to catch a trout, don't fish in a herring barrel


Again, if the apps are only providing options that are already attached, how are the apps meeting your need?

Idk, apps serve a purpose, but we've said it elsewhere on this forum, it's not the same thing as being there, face to face, interacting as the social animals we are and have been for millennia. My experience with using online tools to date is that people don't often represent themselves fairly - some outright lie about things like age or weight and then there are disconnects where what one thinks about oneself is different from how others respond. A PhD in basket weaving isn't the same thing as one in nuclear particle physics yet both have "an advanced degree". Not sure if I'm illustrating that very well and it can cut both ways: we might under or over estimate a selling point or flaw. Last, how much are people saying what they think you want to hear?

Thus why we're not jumping up and down saying "try this app." But I believe both PopTart and I have been saying to get out and be social. I know certainly that's how I met men. For example, right after returning from living overseas I went to a party and thought it was a bust but afterwards one of the guys asked the host to connect us. He was too shy to say anything at the party and needed to have a private chat about the idea with the host. Can't remember if he wanted the host to 'feel me out' first or not, but we dated until it ran it's course. The guy he partnered with after me he met at an event at a gay bar in a mid-sized city (not London or even Portland Oregon).

Thus, if apps aren't working for you, we're trying to provide another option. Alas, there is no magic incantation that will cause your own special dating faerie to appear to take your order before scouring the planet and delivering your soulmate to your doorstep.

Like most things, for most 'average' people, the things we really want require some work. Sometimes it's a lot of work. Sometimes we get lucky, and some people DO win the lottery.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 6 March 2022, 20:34

pozzie wrote:Yeah, guys probably meet because of apps and yes, sometimes a hookup turns into more, but let's step back a second - you say you use apps to meet men but using apps hasn't been a success (yet). So why would you assume that continued reliance on apps is going to give a different result in the future? Sure, if you tried Grindr one time and your 'date' never materialized, I'd say, try it some more. But what number generates the error message, "This is not working for me"?

Okay, when the apps aren't working, one question is, is you presence on the app(s) up to standards for that app? I can't answer this since 1) I don't use apps for dating, 2) I don't know what your app presence looks like. If you had any gay friends in real life you trusted, getting their feedback would help. Maybe a change will make you more marketable? You really need an app guru to offer you more and specific advice there. However, one overriding question about apps is, are people using this app to hookup or find a long-term relationship? I don't care what the apps tell you or allow you to choose, what matters is how guys are actually using the app.

If you want to catch a trout, don't fish in a herring barrel


Again, if the apps are only providing options that are already attached, how are the apps meeting your need?

Idk, apps serve a purpose, but we've said it elsewhere on this forum, it's not the same thing as being there, face to face, interacting as the social animals we are and have been for millennia. My experience with using online tools to date is that people don't often represent themselves fairly - some outright lie about things like age or weight and then there are disconnects where what one thinks about oneself is different from how others respond. A PhD in basket weaving isn't the same thing as one in nuclear particle physics yet both have "an advanced degree". Not sure if I'm illustrating that very well and it can cut both ways: we might under or over estimate a selling point or flaw. Last, how much are people saying what they think you want to hear?

Thus why we're not jumping up and down saying "try this app." But I believe both PopTart and I have been saying to get out and be social. I know certainly that's how I met men. For example, right after returning from living overseas I went to a party and thought it was a bust but afterwards one of the guys asked the host to connect us. He was too shy to say anything at the party and needed to have a private chat about the idea with the host. Can't remember if he wanted the host to 'feel me out' first or not, but we dated until it ran it's course. The guy he partnered with after me he met at an event at a gay bar in a mid-sized city (not London or even Portland Oregon).

Thus, if apps aren't working for you, we're trying to provide another option. Alas, there is no magic incantation that will cause your own special dating faerie to appear to take your order before scouring the planet and delivering your soulmate to your doorstep.

Like most things, for most 'average' people, the things we really want require some work. Sometimes it's a lot of work. Sometimes we get lucky, and some people DO win the lottery.


I think there is some misunderstanding.

"app are not working for me" -- what is missing here is the rest of the sentence i.e. "for anything more than a hookup". I am able to secure a hookup fairly easily through Grindr. The same guys on Scruff are on Grindr so I typically don't try hard on Scruff. I use Tinder for "dating" but I've never met anyone from Tinder (despite offering). In the handful of times I did meet the same guy, the guy was on Grindr too, and when sex was offered we met. I've been on Grindr 10 or so years, Tinder 7 or so years. Plenty of men I know have met dates / relationships / repeat hookups through apps, as I don't think a gay man on apps is drastically different to a gay man in the "real world", so it is just a strange thing overall that I am experiencing.

What I was trying to determine is why everything fizzles where sex is not offered and/or once sex is offered why I am unable to secure a repeat hookup and/or a friendship from the hookup. I wanted to understand this to see if its something I am doing as the approach in person with a different result may not change if there is something I am doing right?

I do agree with you in person / socialisation is better and I am putting the effort in on that front. I was trying to, for example, even tag along with some guys at bars as a friend to then go make more friends or score someone in person. But people agree on apps to meeting it doesn't materialise.

I do not have gay friends, despite trying hard to make them. I have been to relationship and dating coaches and they are confused. Hence my frustration. I also have asked hookups for feedback and never do I get anything 'negative' infact the contrary i.e. you will be snatched up soon etc.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby pozzie » 6 March 2022, 22:01

lostinspace94 wrote:I think there is some misunderstanding.

"app are not working for me" -- what is missing here is the rest of the sentence i.e. "for anything more than a hookup". I am able to secure a hookup fairly easily through Grindr. The same guys on Scruff are on Grindr so I typically don't try hard on Scruff. I use Tinder for "dating" but I've never met anyone from Tinder (despite offering). In the handful of times I did meet the same guy, the guy was on Grindr too, and when sex was offered we met. I've been on Grindr 10 or so years, Tinder 7 or so years. Plenty of men I know have met dates / relationships / repeat hookups through apps, as I don't think a gay man on apps is drastically different to a gay man in the "real world", so it is just a strange thing overall that I am experiencing.


seems like you made an argument for my point - if guys expect hookups from Grindr, then they're not going there to date. They want to hookup.

Now one question: "Plenty of men I know have met dates / relationships / repeat hookups through apps" but you say you don't have any gay friends, are those men straight/bi who are meeting dates, etc on apps? That could somehow affect things. Gay men could be operating with different assumptions.

Other than that, sounds like you've gone to people way more expert than me, so not sure what more I can do than wish you the best of luck! Truly hope you find someone you can spend your time with. :)
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby PopTart » 6 March 2022, 22:40

lostinspace94 wrote:Dont gay men congregate on apps too though? I know many couples who met through hookups, dates or similar and I am sure the men who go to meetups also use the apps so I don't get how going to a bar/club is different to using an app for a date?

Thanks for the links though, will take a look.

They are the exception and not the rule.

Couples are most likely to meet through work. This never used to be the case with gay men (probably due to professional and social stigma) but in the last decade, gay couples are more likely to meet professionally and form lasting relationships that way. Oddly enough, heterosexual people meeting through work has plunged. Likely due to social stigmatisation around workplace flirtation.

But the point is, that while there are success stories about couples who met through grindr or similar, you need to put that into context. Out of how many pairings for those specific couples? And how many gay men use apps on a regular basis and don't meet anyone with whom they form significant bonds.

That's without going into the nature of men, promiscuity and sexial freedom and how hookup apps facilitate and encourage casual lifestyles.

You seem reluctant to try a different approach?
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby PopTart » 6 March 2022, 22:54

It feels like your determined to keep trying, using apps, despite apps providing outcomes counter to what you desire.

Are you looking for someone to tell you, that the fault is in other gay men? Or that you just haven't used the right app?

What is it you actually want? Are you afraid to step outside of your usual methods of meeting people and trying something new? (or old, when you get right down to it) or are you reluctant to abandon the convenience and simplicity of apps?
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 7 March 2022, 00:20

I'm not opposed to trying other methods, as I already mentioned above. I'm just sharing my experiences so far.

Please note that one Tinder / Hinge etc I assume these are more "dating" apps, so 0 meets from there seems strange. Grindr is a hookup app, sure, but people also write 'friends' and stuff there (singles too) so I was just stating that (not saying this is the ONLY way to meet someone).

I work for a large firm and am part of the LGBT network there and have never ever met anyone gay through work who has become a friend or otherwise (and I worked for a large company before, same issue). Hence I try other channels to meet guys. I find these "professional" connections either are superficial in the sense of either work related or don't actually develop into authentic relationships. It's more of an acquaintance type thing. As I wrote above, I've always been in gay gyms, and other things that are "gay social" and still nothing. So I'm not relying on apps, but apps is something I have actual data points for that I can share, hence I wrote about it.

I have asked guys in relationships (gay men) through apps, how they met. Some met through work. The majority met through apps, hookups, friend or friends through a club/bar, and so on. The common thing is they meet, and BOTH keep investing further (even if its just for sex). The fact that I don't even get a repeat hookup is concerning.

I'm not looking to blame anyone. I'm just not understanding why this is so difficult given the feedback I'm getting. If I was a catch I would have been taken by now surely? Or at least had a (real in person) date?
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby PopTart » 7 March 2022, 00:38

I honestly don't think I can offer much in the way of advice tbh. By what you say, you have met people in real life and you don't seem to make connections with them. Is that a mutual feeling. Are there people you ever feel attracted to? That you crush on or have romantic aspirations towards?

I've never heard of someone striking out so thoroughly, despite everything else being equal.

I can't even suggest that therapy is a path to take, because, frankly maybe it isn't you and maybe you just have shit luck.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby pozzie » 7 March 2022, 03:36

PopTart wrote:I honestly don't think I can offer much in the way of advice tbh. By what you say, you have met people in real life and you don't seem to make connections with them. Is that a mutual feeling. Are there people you ever feel attracted to? That you crush on or have romantic aspirations towards?


(edit: sorry, I'm not responding TO PopTart but using his thought as a springboard)

Okay, I'm wondering why you haven't made connections but the most superficial kind at work when you work in a large organization with gay networks operating within. I met my closest friend (straight/ally) over a quarter of a century ago and we still see each other a couple times a month - as in really get together twice a month.

I made other friends at work as well, but granted less enduring mostly because the friendships fizzled after I left the company. Do you guys ever have lunch together? We actually had a small group and after payday we'd find a new 'ethnic' restaurant to try. What about happy hour? That's probably the most important work-related social exercise we have here. Sure, it's only slightly less artificial than work, but it's still exercising the friendship 'muscles'.

So, if I could get inside your head, I'd look at the friendships you have and how they were developed. Then I'd compare that with how you make connections at work and in social/activity groups to see where the disconnect might be, what new ways to bond to try. By far, I made most of LGBTQ friends by doing things together - usually community fund-raising type events.

Last, I've made friends with most of my neighbors (before the pandemic resulted in lots of homes turning over) just walking the dog. Sure, most aren't deep friendships, but we still visit and chat. And I would say two straight women ended being pretty good galpals.

:shrug:
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 10 March 2022, 00:21

The issue has never been building strong relationships generally, its specifically with gay people.
I have made good friendships with work colleagues over time. All of them are straight. I have made friends through my hobbies, further education and so on, all straight again, all of those friendships have lasted the test of time.

The problem is specifically with gay men. If I ask for a friendship things fizzle unless sex is on the table. I have offered countless men coffee, drinks etc, they agree, but never follow through (on apps is most common, but I've had the same issue in person too). Straight people almost always follow through for me. This is what is confusing for me because its not like I'm unable to form any kind of relationship, its just not happening in the area I actually need it to "pick up" in and I just don't get why.

That said, I have had 2-3 much older gay men almost as mentors/friends but we have never met in person and its completely long distance but they are very responsive nice people. Sex is also off the table as they have a solid bf so it feels more like a "straight" friendship and those have lasted years also.

Basically where it breaks down is when they are gay + sex is on the table.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby pozzie » 10 March 2022, 02:46

Okay, seems like we are getting closer to where the problem is. My experience has been fairly similar if guys are really just out looking for sex. My strong suspicion is the vast majority of gay men are using apps to that end, even if they aren't honest (even with themselves) about it. I fear that the underlying context is always - not sexually available, not interested.

This doesn't mean you WON'T find friends who are gay men, but you're going to have to try a different tactic. As I've mentioned, the way that worked best for me, the way that I met and made friends with other gay men, was to be involved in the gay community. I do wonder if London's so big that maybe people are a bit jaded. Maybe PopTart has some insight there. Also, I think we have to be patient to see what the new equilibrium will look like as the pandemic eases and people venture out again -- I've no idea what the real impact has been.

I know some of the more enduring organizations locally - the bears, the gay chorus, the imperial court - all have a fairly strong mix of friendships and guys hooking up. So what you want is something that you're interested in doing, then make a personal commitment to it for six months or year. If this feels problematic, then it's probably NOT what you're really interested in. I won't be surprised if an organization in a big city is a bit cliquish. That's been my personal experience, so it just takes patience and positivity.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby PopTart » 10 March 2022, 05:45

I no longer live in London, so my experience of the gay scene and community there is abit outdated. What I remember is that it is so large, that you generally have to frequent specific spaces to find those few regulars that attend those spaces on a regular basis (be it bars or social groups) it's all very transitory, people don't stick around long. Everyone is moving on to other places, other things and yes, even other people. There was a growing toxicity in gay communities, largely derived from the reality, that people no longer have to congregate. Gay men more than most embrace social media and the trends of forming insular groups there that satisfy social needs without friction, better than RL socialising does. Leading to lower tolerance for divergence in group attitudes in RL. So cliques, which had always been a thing, seemed to have become worse and it could be difficult for new comers to break in to some communities.

But it wasn't impossible to find people for friendship. Nor was it impossible to find like-minded individuals on the fringes of this vast mess, with whom you could form connections and I found it was easier to identify such people, in person where people tend to he more authentic and easier to get a read on. Sex features less in the foreground (although it's always there, we are gay men after all)

I think, it can seem very intimidating given that the obstacles to breakthrough with gay groups and communities are exacerbated by modern social media trends and it can seem a daunting and unrewarding endeavour.

I found I had an easier time making friends with gay women, rather than gay men.

I still think, despite all of the above that meeting people in person is the better prospect for meeting someone with better long term prospects, as all the shenanigans that make interactions between gay men fraught with challenges and somewhat arbitrary and transitory, are amplified online and in apps, over the RL engagement.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 10 March 2022, 17:53

I am not against meeting people IRL and agree it is 100x better as you can "suss" people out.
My issue is, they don't want to, unless sex is on the table. Even when sex is still on the table, it is strange they never come back despite being invited / keeping up the chat. Even if it is just for more sex. Not ideal but you know what I mean. Maybe there are too many other men / alternatives I don't know.
FYI I am in the US currently, need to update my profile. But it seems to be the same problem except marginally worse as a lot of people my age are in relationships / married etc.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby pozzie » 10 March 2022, 19:33

So then where are you - even just a metro would be helpful. Maybe someone has experience in that place. Also, might help finding local organizations.

BTW, most of my gay friends were in relationships and not looking for sex. Once we got that squared away and they didn't feel threatened by me (as in sexually) it was never an issue.

Can you give me a sense of your timing? How many 'chance encounters' (meaning, how many times do you interact with someone before asking to meet outside of the org's setting - more or less)?

On some level, this might be like breaking into the local music scene, you just got to keep working at it until it starts to pay off. There's no secret handshake, no payoffs to the local Queen of the Drag to get access.
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby lostinspace94 » 11 March 2022, 21:42

California.

So I agree with you. The 3 gay men I have had friendships with (although not met ever yet, since we met online, they have bf's but both have been nice mentors) it was on other topics not sex (though 2 did start sexually but then pivoted). Typically they have a bf or something so not feeling 'threatened' so then it works out. The issue is, we also can't really progress that relationship into anything, as they are taken.

Not sure I understand what a 'chance encounter' is? Asking someone for drinks etc not sexually? About 40% of the men I interact with I ask. And I get through at least 20-30 decent sized conversations a week probably on a good week, 5-10 on a lazy week. Everything just fizzles out (from their end) as perhaps there is no incentive anymore to even talk to me (especially where we have already had sex).
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Re: Lack of (gay) relationships advice needed

Unread postby pozzie » 11 March 2022, 23:11

Some thoughts:

Have you asked your online friends for their take on your situation? Not sure I need to know much if anything, but they could provide a new perspective. And do I understand correctly that the conversations started around a sexual theme (say as opposed to outright cybersex)? Again, not really sure I need to know the answer, but if we work with the assumption you started chatting about sex and pivoted to friendship ... well, I can think of a number of my own relationships that followed that trajectory and some involved actual sex. Maybe it's just common with gay men to open with sex or at least sex talk before moving to other things. Not sure I'm saying I really believe that; it's just something to think about in trying to problem solve.

When I mention chance encounter, I'm talking about people you meet while volunteering or going on a group outing. There probably are social mores related to how soon it's appropriate to ask someone out socially (for coffee, drinks, or a meal) and it's probably not during the first encounter. Sure some might be flattered by an immediate response/request/offer, but I'm guessing most would prefer to get a sense of the new person though a series of encounters within the safety of the group setting (office, activity, outing) before doing something outside the group.

Also, there's the thing about saying something indefinite like "we should have dinner some time" which is more a communication of "this friendship is going well, let's keep it up" while specifically being non-committal. Can't say if this is an American thing though I first became aware of it while reading English as a foreign language educational materials. So, depending on your word choice, the interchange might have different connotations for others than it does for you.

I'll admit that when I moved from the desert southwest to the Pacific northwest, there was a bit of culture shock. People were polite but not necessarily as warm as I was used to. Also there was all that hugging to get used to. So it's possible that there is something that you're doing that while perfectly normal and even expected in the UK (or London) might be putting folks off in California. While I hate to generalize too much and there really are multiple Californias - the Bay area is different from greater LA and neither are like the inland valleys or northern mountains - the west coast is know for a more laid back lifestyle where emotions and feelings matter a lot more than I think they do back east. It's often called touchy-feely. So it might be about learning the vibe and how to fit in with it. Of course some would use going against the local vibe to their advantage as well, so there is no one right way, just things to try as you continue your quest to make friends and maybe more.
pozzie
 
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