Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 27 October 2018, 22:22

PopTart,

Although I believe firmly in reparative therapy partly because Dr. Nicolosi has published a book full of case studies to show that it works. I reject conversion therapy partly because from what I can tell, it can harm people.

If you think I'm trying covertly to attract people here to either kind of therapy, please remember that I agree with Dr. Nicolosi when he says four things. First, reparative therapy is for people who feel unwanted same-sex attractions. Second, it's wrong to try to force people to change their sexual orientations. Third, reparative therapy rarely helps people who turn to it because their religion or other people or something else tells them that they shouldn't feel same-sex attractions or that homosexual acts are immoral. If they're going to change their sexual orientation or weaken their same-sex attractions, that needs to be because they believe that those things just don't fit them. They're people who might say something like, "Yes, I feel those attractions, but they're just 'not me.'" Fourth, for reparative therapy to help clients, they first need to accept themselves as they are.

Let me expand on point four because I "caught" Cerebral Palsy when my lungs collapsed at birth. Since the oxygen shortage damaged my brain, I need to walk on crutches, ride a wheelchair, put up with constant spasticity, and ask other people to put on my socks and shoes for me. With my spastic hands, I can't even touch-type because when I move a finger from the home row on the keyboard, others go "automatically" with it.

I accept myself as I am. So I accept my handicap, too. In fact, if God wants me to keep the Cerebral Palsy for the rest of my life, I'm perfectly comfortable with his decision because I see how he uses the CP to help other people and me. But if he or a doctor made me able-bodied, I would love that. For me, it would be a joy to run, jump, do gymnastics, and mount my friend Mickey the Morgan horse for a leisurely ride. But my disability prevents me from doing those things.

Cerebral Palsy isn't who I am. It's a property I have. I have it, I might not have had it, maybe someday it'll go away. Your homosexuality isn't who you are it's a property you have. Though you may have adopted the "gay identity," you probably will say your name when someone asks you who you are. A woman who taught me CPR would say "I'm Gay" because "Gay" is her first name," not an adjective to describe her sexual preference.

What makes me who I am is that I'm a body-soul composite with a unique immortal soul. If Christ resurrects my body, it'll be mine because it and my soul belong together. My body is any human body my soul belongs to. So although I may gain some properties and lose some other properties, it's metaphysically impossible for me to turn into someone else. I love and admire my heroes Pope St. Pius X and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. But there's no way for me to become either of them, let alone to change into anyone else instead.

It seems to me, PopTart, that if I begin to believe that my handicap is who I am rather than something I have, that's a strange, narrow definition. It's also one that I would hate to adopt because I'm clearly distinct from my brain injury. My handicap is easy to see and sometimes I need other people to help me because of it. But they delight me when they ignore it to treat me as what I am, a human person like everyone else. People treat me the way I want to be treated when I think and act like just "one of the guys," not like a handicapped man who thinks his handicap is his most important quality.

I know that you and many other people here at GF are gay. Yet, I want to think of you as another person and as a friend of mine. I want our sexual orientations to be nearly irrelevant to our relationship. One of my closest friends is a practicing homosexual. But that's not why we became friends. He came out to me after we did that. In fact, he's the friend I trust the most and we're very open with each other about everything. Yes, he's gay. But to me, he's just a very close friend. Though I'm handicapped, he calls me his friend, not his handicapped friend, and mentions my handicap only when he needs to do that. If we go somewhere together, he doesn't attract needless attention to my disability, which anyone can discover. I don't tell anyone else that my friend is gay because if he wants to reveal it, he can do that.

No, I'm not lonely, since I usually prefer to be alone to live like a scholarly cloistered monk.

Would I like to befriend some GF posters? Sure, but I doubt that I've done that yet. In my opinion, message board friendships(?) tend to be too shallow to be much more than acquaintanceships. How deep can a friendship be when the friends(?) need to "hide behind pseudonyms to remain anonymous? Although I know that some people need to do that, I hate pseudonyms partly because some posters lose inhibitions when they play fictional characters, if you will.

As for conversion therapy, I think there are good reasons to believe that can be harmful. That's why I'm not a fan of it nor have I defended it here. I'm happy to agree with you when say that it's been debunked, or at least I hope it has been debunked if it harms people. Still, you and I haven't discussed any empirical evidence against it, let alone any evidence that psychological harm can't cause homosexuality.

Much of what you've said to me has seemed emotionally charged or at least about emotion-related issues. I'm not here to evoke strong negative emotions in anyone and I do not mean to hurt anyone's feelings. No, if we're going to discuss homosexuality, reparative therapy, and other controversial subjects, I want to do that serenely and objectively. Again, it seems to me that the more passionately someone believes something, the less evidence he has for it. I enjoy calm philosophical conversations, not emotional conversations where people only seem to see personal attacks, homophobia, or any other painful problem.

My handicap made me thoroughly self-centered. So I insulted people who only meant to help me. I imagined that other people were rejecting me when they weren't doing that and had no idea that I felt hurt by anything they at least seemed to have done. I felt and acted like a victim. I also manipulated people to get what I wanted, especially when it was easy to make them feel sorry for me. Compassionate people may be easy for supposed victims to attract. But sooner or later, I needed to realize that my imagined victimhood was part of my problem. For me to both feel better about myself and treat other people better, I had to reject it. Sometimes I needed people to tell me to stop feeling sorry for myself and to take responsibility for how I feel and for what I do. Since I cause most of my of my emotional pain, it's unfair for me to blame others for most of it.
Last edited by OB2 on 28 October 2018, 19:25, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby Jzone » 27 October 2018, 23:17

OB2 wrote:I believe firmly in reparative therapy partly because Dr. Nicolosi has published a book full of case studies to show that it works.
If this is the case, you believe for very poor reasons. One book written by one person does not make a convincing body of evidence. Case studies are not respected in questions of health or psychological questions, partly due to the following recognized weaknesses:
    • Can't generalize the results to the wider population.
    • Researchers' own subjective feeling may influence the case study (researcher bias).
    • Difficult to replicate.
Pay particular attention around the 3:45 mark in the following video.


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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 28 October 2018, 02:34

Jzone, video has some problems, in my opinion To begin, it seems to conflate homosexuality and homosexual acts. No one chooses to be homosexual, but some homosexuals do choose to behave homosexually, to have homosexual sex, say.

Second, it brings up churches and religion when it mentions conversion therapy. But from what I can tell, conversion therapists often don't have the needed academic and scientific credentials. But Dr. Nicolosi earned a Ph.D. in psychology.

Years ago, I felt heartbroken and guilty when a former friend of mine rejected me. So the moment I saw a counseling book on a Protestant minister's table, I thought he knew how to counsel. I made an appointment with him, expressed what I felt, and heard him say that I needed to admit that I was a sinner. Had he known me well enough, he would have known that my sinfulness was already painfully clear to me. He didn't help me cope with the rejection. But he did say something like, "Phone me if you want to talk again and remember that tonight's session wasn't a social call."

What if his only "training" came from the book I found in his living room? What if he didn't know how to feel empathy? Maybe because he was a fundamentalist, he "saw everything in black and white." Maybe many religiously motivated conversion therapy clinics try too hard to change a client's sexual orientation because those therapists are misinterpreting homosexuality-related Bible passages. How many fundamentalists reflect on the nature of some potentially immoral action and whether something reduces or removes the doer's blameworthiness if he is or was to blame for doing that thing?

Third, the trouble with the point about supposed animal homosexuality is that people who believe in it may be humanizing what animals do. For example, if a male animal, a dog, for example, mounts and penetrates another male one, it may because he wants to show dominance, to tell the other dog, "I'm in charge." My brother told me about a TV program partly about a murderer with an inventive way to commit the crime. In a horse barn, he drenched him with mare urine, a male horse mistook him for a female one and killed him by trying to have sex with him. If urine can fool a horse, maybe other chemicals can fool other animals, too. Do you expect me to believe that that the horse suddenly discovered that he preferred people or that he had found some strange-looking tiny tailless mare with her eyes on the front of her head? If the man had showered, would the stallion still have tried to mount him?

In 1996, homosexual scientist Simon LeVay admitted that the evidence pointed to isolated acts, not to homosexuality:
Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.11
Despite the “homosexual” appearances of some animal behavior, this behavior does not stem from a “homosexual” instinct that is part of animal nature. Dr. Antonio Pardo, Professor of Bioethics at the University of Navarre, Spain, explains:

Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals…. For reasons of survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual of the opposite sex. Therefore, an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an “animal homosexuality”. All it means is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction.12


http://www.tfp.org/the-qanimal-homosexualityq-myth/

What about homosexuality and identical twins? Well, since they originate from the same fertile human egg, they're genetically exactly alike. So if homosexuality were an inherited trait, anytime an identical twin was born homosexual, his or her twin would be born that way, too. If gender dysphoria were genetic, both identical twins would be gender dysphoric if either twin was that way. Here's what Dr. Michelle Cretella M.D. tells us about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s57T27M1ZXk&t=61s

I noticed that although the video narrator mentions the American Psychological and American Psychiatric Associations, he doesn't cite any written sources for me to look up and read. He doesn't even answer the often-repeated criticism that political pressure, not science, made it remove same-sex attraction disorder from its diagnostic manual. So if lobbyists manipulated the APA in something like the way this article advocates, I'm not surprised to hear that the APA caved under the pressure.

http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 28 October 2018, 03:17

Maybe I need to retract what I said about conflation because the video does mention free will.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby PopTart » 28 October 2018, 07:39

OB, a poignant tale, not sure if it's allegory or not, but thats neither here nor there.

I admit I haven't read this Dr Nicolosi, neither am I going to, I've spent more than enough of my life, listening to, reading about and standing up against, those sorts of ideas, to know exactly what is underneath all the words. An attempt to prune, unwanted or disliked behaviours and characteristics, from society. It's never about helping people find happiness. It's about making people more acceptable and making the people doing the work, feel good about themselves.

You say your not trying to covertly convert anyone, but go on to say you agree with attitudes that condone and endorse just such attempts, but only for those that choose that path. Never saying that isn't you intent. Very telling.

You then speak of people having to accept who they really are, while endorsing trying to change their fundamental nature, which is it? Self acceptance or denial?

While your tale of cerebral palsy is moving, what you are doing is likening a physical ailment, with a facet of personality. Those two things aren't the same. Our sexualiy doesn't have to define us, for some people gay or straight, or someplace in the middle, that aspect of their personhood, does indeed define their identity, but the fact remains it is simply a facet of who we are. Trying to deny any aspect of ourselves, is ultimately futile and damaging and there are more than enough examples, as I've said, here and anywhere else, of the truthfulness of that statement.

The things you say, suggest, once again, that you regard any sexuality that you view as "deviant" from the accepted norm, as stemming from some manner of impairment. The implication you make, is that one cannot be "healthy" and gay. You speak of brain damage and homosexuality in the same context and then wonder why we find what you say disagreeable? No?

It's good and laudable if, you indeed have cerebral palsy, that you have accepted the hand you have been dealt and work with what you have, But being on a different place on the sexual spectrum, isn't a disability, it isn't sinful (I don't believe in sin, so a rather moot point for me, but still) but you clearly don't understand how, as gay people, we have formed a subculture, due to the very persecution we have experienced int he world and in some places continue to do so. That is a character defining struggle, it can be a powerful influence in our lives and our self perception. you speak of being accepted by others and how liberating and validating that is, inspite of your impairment, while at the same time, encourage, condone and endorse, others seeking to deny in themselves, that which is a part of who they are. Contraditcions abound it seems. Double standards perhaps?

You speak of wanting to know the people here and myself, for the people we are, but you are the one so focused on our sexuality, while missing completely that it doesn't define, for us, who we are, but instead, for you and who you percieve us to be.

Again, you speak of a friend, who doesn't attract attention to your handicap and that he didn't draw attention to his sexuality, this, once again betrays an innate belief that homosexuality is wrong, shameful and should be hidden. That you believe that your handicap is something to be ashamed of or ignored too it seems? We don't want to ignore aspects of ourselves, we, generally speaking want to be happy well rounded individuals, with all the rights and freedoms, including living freely and with the power to self determinate about our sexual identities, as anyone else. To do so without fear of reprisal or being told we should be ashamed of ourselves, because we know there is nothing to be ashamed of. We are proud. Perhaps it seems to people like you, we are overly proud, but I would say, that is the result of thousands of years of the majority of the world, telling us the opposite. I guess, if that pride bothers you, the straight world should bear in mind, the choices and actions they take, have consequences, for everyone. Perhaps this is one?

Thern you go on to say you want to be friends with people here, only yuo then trivialise the nature on online friendships, demoting them to the rank of aquaintanceship, so what is it? You sticking to the line your here to make friends and develop understanding and empathy or are you really here to sermonise, convert and foster feelings of shame?

Because it sounds alot to me, reading between the lines, you're here for the later.

You may be passive in your attitude, but there it is.

As for my emotional statements and words, Yes! I am an emotional person, I regard being emotional as a quintessntial aspect of humanity and personhood. Reason tempers passion and emotion gives meaning and purpose to reason. Any discussion I have, be it academic or simply talking about what I ate for dinner, I'm bringing that to the table. I believe that is for the betterment of any dialogue, because just as it is unhealthy to repress aspects of our identities, so too is it unhealthy, to repress our emotions. All things in balance and all that. It's possible to be passionate about something AND have good reason to hold a belief, Mine is personal experience. What is yours?

So your welcome to your supposed serenity, I can't say you seem entirely objective, but then, who is? :shrug: I don't feel attacked by you OB, I see what you are trying to do, as being harmful to others.

You see, believing your a victim, when your not, isn't particularly productive, but believing your a victim, when indeed you are a victim, thats just good survival instincts. I'm the first to say that gay people in much of the west have it pretty good nowadays, there are still issues, still dangerous places and awful people, but for hte most part, we are very fortunate to live in this day and age, when the victims of the past, had the courage to stand up and be heard, to fight for our right to live as we do today.

You see, I'm fortunate enough to remember when things weren't so good. I missed alot of the worst stuff, but I remember enough, so I can appreciate how far we've come. There are those here, who have been around longer and remember more vividly how much worse it could be and there are places in this world, too many places, where we wouldn't be having this conversation. Where someone like me, would be fortunate to find himself in a prison cell and not flung from the rooftop of a building. Yeah, that still happens.

So yeah, maybe we, as a community can seem like we have a victim complex, but as those gay people who have been around a long while will tell you, things can change quit quickly and sometimes not for the better.

I don't believe you are here, to develop understanding of and empathy towards gay people at all. I honestly don't understand why your here, but I suspect, you'll end up a negative influence and sooner or later, you'll wear out your welcome.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby Jzone » 28 October 2018, 16:20

Wow. All I can say is you, OB2, are very misinformed and misguided on this subject. You also exhibit a strong tendency for motivated reasoning.

I don't endorse everything in that video. You glossed over the one point I suggested you consider. Professional associations in the field of mental health reject the idea that homosexuality is a disorder, or a condition in need of "repair". Do you imagine they are all politically motivated, without any basis in science? On social issues, politics and science often go hand in hand. I laughed out loud when you complained about the lack of citation in the video and then offered this gem:
OB2 wrote:My brother told me about a TV program partly about a murderer with an inventive way to commit the crime. In a horse barn, he drenched him with mare urine, a male horse mistook him for a female one and killed him by trying to have sex with him. If urine can fool a horse, maybe other chemicals can fool other animals, too.
A quick search online for "American Psychological Association on homosexuality" (or any of the other associations mentioned) will turn up volumes of reading material for you. Meanwhile, a search for "murder by horse sex" seems to be a dead end. Perhaps your brother was confused regarding fiction vs non-fiction on TV.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 28 October 2018, 23:39

PopTart,

I want you to be happy. But I suggest that some things you believe about your homosexuality may be keeping you less happy than you could be. That's my belief partly because I hear Joseph Sciambra, the former gay-porn star, say that he's happier than ever because he rejected the gay identity and the gay lifestyle to live a chaste, holy, celibate, Catholic life. He admits that he still feels same-sex attractions, he denies that he's gay, since he thinks that they gay identity is a social construct. If someone told him, "Joseph, I'm gay. That's who I am.", Mr. Sciambra would disagree that gay is whom the other person is. Naturally, I agree with Sciambra on that point partly because in my opinion, the other person is conflating who someone is, that person's identity, with a property that person has."

Here's what Mr. Schiambra says about gay self-acceptance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=20&v=VANoJ7gSndM

What do you mean by "fundamental?" If a fundamental property is part of the essential nature of someone, he will have that property throughout his life because if he loses any essential property, he'll stop existing. So if reparative therapy changes my best friend's sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual, he'll survive and his homosexuality will have been non-fundamental.

Maybe you're committing the fallacy of division when you tell me for a homosexual person to accept himself as he is, he needs to accept his homosexuality. too. But you already know that an object can have a property, even if some parts of it don't have it. For example, although I'm sitting in a wheelchair that weighs 50 pounds, each part of it weighs less than that. I accept myself as I am. What's more, I accept my handicap, too, because I believe that God uses it to help me and other people. But I would still love to be able-bodied. Given all that, you still know that my self-acceptance doesn't imply that I self-accept each part of me.

My Cerebral Palsy doesn't shame me and my friend's homosexuality doesn't shame him. But the next time he and I go to dinner at our favorite Italian restaurant, I won't need to describe my handicap to everyone in the dining room. Although I'm sure my friend wouldn't march in a gay pride, I think that gay pride marchers attract needless attention when they march through a conservative neighborhood because they mean to offend the people there. I don't want to watch a man gyrate when he wears only his bathing suit. I don't want to see a topless woman in the parade either. To me, gay pride parades seem almost quintessentially narcissistic. In effect, each marcher is saying, "Look at me, watch me, I want to be seen."

I'm sure gay people do form gay subculture. When people at least believe that they're getting hated, persecuted, or even gay based for what they are, the band together for friendship, support, love, a way to cope with what's being done to them, political power, and more. Although I don't want to be an activist for any cause, I'll be happy to help those people fight against the unjust treatment the suffer from On the other hand, I'll also do all I can to combat the manipulative tyrannical tactics you're familiar with if you've read "Overhauling Straight America."

http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm

Please forgive me for my frankness in this paragraph when I say that although I know that homosexuals can be healthy, I believe that homosexuality is a psychologically unhealthy property to have and that gay sex is medically dangerous.

A fact sheet from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control
https://www.cdc.gov/std/life-stages-populations/stdfact-msm.htm

From the National LGBT Cancer Project
https://lgbtcancer.org/lgbt-health-risks/gay-mens-health-risks/

From the Catholic Education Resource Center
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/marriage-and-family/sexuality/the-health-risks-of-gay-sex.html

Maybe I will wear out my welcome here at GF. If that happens, I'll leave when a moderator asks or tells me to go. Meanwhile, please remember that I mean no harm to anyone. If you read the documents I've just cited, you won't like what they tell you. Buy I'm posting them because I care.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby \Tomb Raider/ » 29 October 2018, 00:31

Hi Jake, :hug:

Sorry I didn’t bother to read the others replies :gayblahblah:

I remember feeling the same way when I was single. I wasn’t out I was 20 and my younger brother and sister were always going on dates and me, well I was always doing something that interested me. Watching movies, video game....blah blah blah. Well that same year I was really starting to feel lonely. I had no one to share something special or create memories with. I went online, set up my profiles on possibly every site that was gay. :P I promise I ain’t no whore. Any way I talked and dated some guys around my area and eventually noticed that all the guys I was attracted too, (muscular, macho) were really not my type in the end. The one I eventually fell for was the year I turned 22. He was just an average guy, all the same interest with a few different likings here and there. We made it work cause I’m sure I liked somethings he didn’t.

One thing I did learn during the dates and people I dated was to never change yourself for anyone. I always ran across that gay guy who wanted dick pics and nudes and not really have a conversation or if we conversed for a few days eventually he would ask for nudes. Stick to your beliefs and who you truly are but also leave room to learn and grow.

I can tell you, I am now 27 and I’m with that same guy that I met when I was 22. I have noticed I changed a lot since we’ve been together, but I didn’t change alone. We changed as a married couple.

Go find the man of your dreams and don’t give up. It takes time, just put in the effort.


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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 29 October 2018, 01:17

\Tomb Raider/ wrote:Hi Jake, :hug:

Sorry I didn’t bother to read the others replies :gayblahblah:

Typical. You know, Marco, just because you ignore other comments doesn’t mean they don’t exist...just like God. You know God, right? He’s that guy you’ve decided to conveniently forget about in order to love your proud, sinful lifestyle of wearing really short cut-offs and slobbering on maple man-bacon. Not everything in life is about your own wants and hedonistic desires. Sometimes life is about leading a vapid existence devoid of any joy or worldly interests in service of an abstraction conveyed through literature corroborated by fallacies and eerie anecdotes.

I will use this opportunity to provide you with links to Dr. Big Man Tyrone, world renowned heterosexual:
Respecting how people sexually identify
Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
Ramzus: I can admit that I'm horny just about 24/7
homomorphism: I used to not think your name was deshay and that Erick was just being racist
Hunter: sometimes I think I was literally born to be a pornstar
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PostThis post was deleted by René on 29 October 2018, 12:42.
Reason: Spam

Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby \Tomb Raider/ » 29 October 2018, 13:37

poolerboy0077 wrote:
\Tomb Raider/ wrote:Hi Jake, :hug:

Sorry I didn’t bother to read the others replies :gayblahblah:

Typical. You know, Marco, just because you ignore other comments doesn’t mean they don’t exist...just like God. You know God, right? He’s that guy you’ve decided to conveniently forget about in order to love your proud, sinful lifestyle of wearing really short cut-offs and slobbering on maple man-bacon. Not everything in life is about your own wants and hedonistic desires. Sometimes life is about leading a vapid existence devoid of any joy or worldly interests in service of an abstraction conveyed through literature corroborated by fallacies and eerie anecdotes.

I will use this opportunity to provide you with links to Dr. Big Man Tyrone, world renowned heterosexual:
Respecting how people sexually identify



Omg lol
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 29 October 2018, 20:40

If we've digressed, maybe you need to return to Jake's topic?
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby mxguy01 » 29 October 2018, 21:55

Let's face it. OB2 is a piece of shit. Let's call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool. He exhibits nothing but deception and the intent to manipulated those that he feels are vulnerable. I can't imagine a lower life form. He has no desire to "understand" but simple wants to promote his BS beliefs.

In other words, he's a predator of a different and very dangerous kind.

Dang, someone beat me to reporting his sorry sack of manure ass.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby Tommiebee » 29 October 2018, 23:39

Holy crap!
OBv+ is a real work.
I am a Catholic, although just another "bad Catholic" according to Sister Marie.
It bothers me when someone pulls this kind of nonsense.
Our actions are to be guided by our own conscience and are between us and God alone so long as we do not harm others.
When people like this try to "help" they act out of arrogance and false pride.
Since none less than the Pope has said that there's nothing wrong with being gay because that's how God made you, then who gives this guy the authority to subvert that?
Phew. Sorry, I am late to the party then read through this and my face got red.
Bottom line: I'm Catholic and do not agree with Mr. Opera's viewpoint. I've seen people like this before, and inow the end, it's always about how special they are and look at how superhuman they are and why can't you be as special as I am!
To quote Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon."
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 30 October 2018, 02:15

Tommiebee wrote:Holy crap!
OBv+ is a real work.
I am a Catholic, although just another "bad Catholic" according to Sister Marie.
It bothers me when someone pulls this kind of nonsense.
Our actions are to be guided by our own conscience and are between us and God alone so long as we do not harm others.
When people like this try to "help" they act out of arrogance and false pride.
Since none less than the Pope has said that there's nothing wrong with being gay because that's how God made you, then who gives this guy the authority to subvert that?
Phew. Sorry, I am late to the party then read through this and my face got red.
Bottom line: I'm Catholic and do not agree with Mr. Opera's viewpoint. I've seen people like this before, and inow the end, it's always about how special they are and look at how superhuman they are and why can't you be as special as I am!
To quote Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon."

Tommiebee,
Here's what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about homosexuality.
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Tommie, the Church teaches that sometimes we may need to obey a misinformed conscience. But after we discover that it has fooled us, we need to retrain it with the truth it didn't tell us. We're not talking about moral relativism where it's okay to do anything our consciences will allow.

Pope Francis phrased his "Who am I to judge " question as an if-then sentence. So please remember some important points about the semantics of if-then sentences. Suppose I say that if I die in friendship with God, then I'll go to heaven. I'm telling you that the sentence's "if" part implies its "then" part. I'm not saying that either part is true. Both parts may be true, they may be false, the first one may be false when the second one is true. When the first part is true and the second one is false, the first part definitely does not imply the second one. What do I mean when I say that in an an if-then statement, the "if" part implies the "then" part? I mean that if you affirm the "if" part and deny the "then" part, you contradict yourself.

When he asks "Who am I to judge?", he's not saying that homosexuality and homosexual acts acts are okay. Mere same-sex attraction is morally neutral. It's neither morally right nor morally wrong. But homosexual acts are not okay.

Remember the difference between the nature of an action and whether a particular person deserves blame for it when he does it. Catholic doctrine teaches that homosexual acts are always gravely immoral in themselves. In some conditions, people can go to hell for them. For someone to be damned for a sin, it needs to meet all three requirements I'm going to list. First, it must be a grave sin. Second, the sinner needs to know that it's grave. Third, he still commits it knowingly, willingly, and freely. But if he dies penitently in friendship with God, he'll go to heaven. We need to repent on earth, because we can't repent after our deaths.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 30 October 2018, 02:22

MX, I'll bet you're an ex-Catholic.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 30 October 2018, 02:38

You seem to enjoy the sound of your own voice (or sight of your own text). Are you related to Floyd Mayweather?
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby Jaket403 » 30 October 2018, 03:00

Omg ob2 get off it bro. Find a new thread to post on. Please
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby OB2 » 30 October 2018, 03:18

Jaket403 wrote:Omg ob2 get off it bro. Find a new thread to post on. Please

I tried to put this thread back on topic before I digressed again. So I think I'll ignore it.
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Re: Lonely, what am I doing wrong?

Unread postby René » 30 October 2018, 11:31

OperaBuff/OB2 has been banned for trolling.
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