Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby rxxli » 28 March 2014, 19:54

Well since this thread is back among active again...
xyz72 wrote:OIt's the same with obese people blaming the food industry, the economy or the media. Never look for a fault in yourself when you can project blame.

Well food industry actually does play a part in here. A year ago here was a long article somewhere about "product development" in the food industry. It basically dealt with how companies try to produce food that will play with our senses. Basically telling us that we are hungry and how we need to eat more.

So they are certainly trying to make people eat more.

But I do agree with everything else. In the end it still you that eats all that food.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby xyz72 » 28 March 2014, 20:57

That's why I wrote that those things are factors. Like for me personally, healthy food being unavailable at my school was a factor - and the food industry can be blamed for that. But in the end the most important thing is self-control.

And I do think it's disgusting that companies are even allowed to add things into our food that trick us into believing we need more, but it IS our choice to continue eating the food these companies produce.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Nam » 28 March 2014, 21:34

rxxli wrote:Well since this thread is back among active again...
xyz72 wrote:OIt's the same with obese people blaming the food industry, the economy or the media. Never look for a fault in yourself when you can project blame.

Well food industry actually does play a part in here. A year ago here was a long article somewhere about "product development" in the food industry. It basically dealt with how companies try to produce food that will play with our senses. Basically telling us that we are hungry and how we need to eat more.

So they are certainly trying to make people eat more.

But I do agree with everything else. In the end it still you that eats all that food.


People have the choice to eat the food or not. Yeh there is advertising and heaps of studies into human behaviour and habit which is used to make adverts as effective as they can be, but in the end, its the human that decides whether to give in or not. Blaming the advertiser is just another example of people not taking responsibility for their actions. The food and drink does not attack the person and force itself down the persons throat! :D
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby arcanepersona » 1 April 2014, 19:00

You people are forgetting something important when talking about this issue. Overeating isn't always a sign of lack of self control. What about people who over eat to ease their anxiety? Sometimes eating food is a source of comfort for people, a way for them to forget about their problems and miserable lives , and just focus on the food on their plate. I think that in those cases, therapy is recommend because they have never been taught the coping skills to deal with life.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Nam » 1 April 2014, 19:32

arcanepersona wrote:You people are forgetting something important when talking about this issue. Overeating isn't always a sign of lack of self control. What about people who over eat to ease their anxiety? Sometimes eating food is a source of comfort for people, a way for them to forget about their problems and miserable lives , and just focus on the food on their plate. I think that in those cases, therapy is recommend because they have never been taught the coping skills to deal with life.


Then hopefully they would have the support to deal with anxiety in a more constructive way and also deal with the anxiety. It is possible to change the coping mechanism to something more beneficial whilst dealing with the actual root issue. Though it is still a self control issue-anxiety doesn't make someone pick up the fork-if it did, everyone would be in the same situation.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Mod » 1 April 2014, 19:57

Nam wrote:
arcanepersona wrote:You people are forgetting something important when talking about this issue. Overeating isn't always a sign of lack of self control. What about people who over eat to ease their anxiety? Sometimes eating food is a source of comfort for people, a way for them to forget about their problems and miserable lives , and just focus on the food on their plate. I think that in those cases, therapy is recommend because they have never been taught the coping skills to deal with life.


Then hopefully they would have the support to deal with anxiety in a more constructive way and also deal with the anxiety. It is possible to change the coping mechanism to something more beneficial whilst dealing with the actual root issue. Though it is still a self control issue-anxiety doesn't make someone pick up the fork-if it did, everyone would be in the same situation.

Agreed if someone has a self control issue/anxiety/procrastination large enough to warrant therapy there's not much of a guarantee that they'll even commit to therapy so the point is moot IMO.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Derek » 1 April 2014, 19:59

arcanepersona wrote:You people are forgetting something important when talking about this issue. Overeating isn't always a sign of lack of self control. What about people who over eat to ease their anxiety? Sometimes eating food is a source of comfort for people, a way for them to forget about their problems and miserable lives , and just focus on the food on their plate. I think that in those cases, therapy is recommend because they have never been taught the coping skills to deal with life.

How is eating out of anxiety different from eating out of lack of self-control, and why would anxiety but not lack of self-control be something over which to seek therapy?
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby arcanepersona » 1 April 2014, 22:36

Derek wrote:
arcanepersona wrote:You people are forgetting something important when talking about this issue. Overeating isn't always a sign of lack of self control. What about people who over eat to ease their anxiety? Sometimes eating food is a source of comfort for people, a way for them to forget about their problems and miserable lives , and just focus on the food on their plate. I think that in those cases, therapy is recommend because they have never been taught the coping skills to deal with life.

How is eating out of anxiety different from eating out of lack of self-control, and why would anxiety but not lack of self-control be something over which to seek therapy?


You could argue the eating out of lack of self control and eating out of anxiety are exactly the same things, meaning they're both exist due to poor coping skills. In that case, both are in need in some serious life training skills. I guess I that I have different meaning of what lack of self control means. To me it means that a person is just following their impulses with a lack of self awareness or personal limits .While I feel that most people who over eat tend for psychological reason realize why they do it on some level.

For example, sometimes I like to be bitchy and troll forums. I could post some controversial threads every time I get an idea in my head. But I don't always do that. I realize the consequences of always posting nasty things, but to me the price is worth the award. Lack of self control means acting with lack of forethought on the effect of your actions.


Just because some people enjoy engaging in self destructive activities, doesn't mean they have a lack of self control. It's just means that they're mentally fucked up. Or haven't learn there positive ways to enjoy life.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Derek » 2 April 2014, 03:02

arcanepersona wrote:
Derek wrote:
arcanepersona wrote:You people are forgetting something important when talking about this issue. Overeating isn't always a sign of lack of self control. What about people who over eat to ease their anxiety? Sometimes eating food is a source of comfort for people, a way for them to forget about their problems and miserable lives , and just focus on the food on their plate. I think that in those cases, therapy is recommend because they have never been taught the coping skills to deal with life.

How is eating out of anxiety different from eating out of lack of self-control, and why would anxiety but not lack of self-control be something over which to seek therapy?


You could argue the eating out of lack of self control and eating out of anxiety are exactly the same things, meaning they're both exist due to poor coping skills. In that case, both are in need in some serious life training skills. I guess I that I have different meaning of what lack of self control means. To me it means that a person is just following their impulses with a lack of self awareness or personal limits .While I feel that most people who over eat tend for psychological reason realize why they do it on some level.

For example, sometimes I like to be bitchy and troll forums. I could post some controversial threads every time I get an idea in my head. But I don't always do that. I realize the consequences of always posting nasty things, but to me the price is worth the award. Lack of self control means acting with lack of forethought on the effect of your actions.


Just because some people enjoy engaging in self destructive activities, doesn't mean they have a lack of self control. It's just means that they're mentally fucked up. Or haven't learn there positive ways to enjoy life.

I don't get what the difference is. Whether we call overeating a disease or a habit is just a matter of what traits we choose to pathologize, and whether we attribute it to coping with stress or not is just a dealer's choice of euphemisms. I don't really see how it matters.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Momentous » 2 April 2014, 06:35

Some of you people are hilariously uninformed. Of course obesity is a disease - it's highly genetic, and for many obese people, immense amounts of exercise and healthy eating will do very little (other than give them a heart attack). Furthermore, if a disease is characterised by pathology of the body showing abnormal symptoms, obesity is certainly acceptable.

People have a "set weight", which the body attempts to keep you at.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Derek » 2 April 2014, 06:45

Momentous wrote:Some of you people are hilariously uninformed. Of course obesity is a disease - it's highly genetic, and for many obese people, immense amounts of exercise and healthy eating will do very little (other than give them a heart attack). Furthermore, if a disease is characterised by pathology of the body showing abnormal symptoms, obesity is certainly acceptable.

People have a "set weight", which the body attempts to keep you at.

So would you characterize having purple eyes or an extremely low IQ as diseases, considering that those conditions also are abnormal, have strong genetic origins, and are resistant to change?
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Brenden » 2 April 2014, 07:07

Momentous wrote:People have a "set weight", which the body attempts to keep you at.

If that were true, then the average weight of a population would remain pretty consistent. In the developed world, it's not. It's increasing, pretty dramatically.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 2 April 2014, 07:22

We need to do something fast before twinks become extinct. :noes: They're an endangered species!
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Derek » 2 April 2014, 07:32

Apparently the NYT conducted a brief study about what impact the AMA's reclassification has.

Our findings confirmed our suspicions. On the positive side, we found that the obesity-as-disease message increased body satisfaction among obese individuals, probably because it removed the shame of obesity as a moral failing.

However, there was also a significant negative consequence. Suggesting that one’s weight is a fixed state — like a long-term disease — made attempts at weight management seem futile, and thus undermined the importance that obese individuals placed on health-focused dieting and concern for weight.

More important, these reduced concerns about weight predicted less healthy, higher-calorie food choices. We asked the participants in the study to look at a menu and select among sandwich options ranging from 230 to 980 calories. Obese participants in the obesity-is-a-disease condition group made choices that had 7 percent more calories than obese participants in the control condition group. For normal-weight participants, food choice did not differ between the control condition groups.


What hot nonsense it is that word-choice has such an an effect on people. It's all part of a larger trend that began decades ago, when psychologists began rebranding antisocial personality traits as symptoms of psychosis. At least to me, it seems like the ultimate affect of labeling something as a "disease" is to make it more amenable to expensive professional treatment... but maybe I'm too cynical. Or maybe I've read too much Thomas Szasz. I think that, for the sake of nomenclature, the term should be reserved conditions that occur as the result of a pathogen.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby c1ask0 » 2 April 2014, 07:34

Brenden wrote:
Momentous wrote:People have a "set weight", which the body attempts to keep you at.

If that were true, then the average weight of a population would remain pretty consistent. In the developed world, it's not. It's increasing, pretty dramatically.

I can certainly agree that some people have a set weight, although it's probably not true of everyone. My weight hardly fluctuates at all no matter how much or little I eat or exercise.

poolerboy0077 wrote:We need to do something fast before twinks become extinct. :noes: They're an endangered species!

Don't worry. I'm sitting pretty at 9st 10lbs.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Momentous » 2 April 2014, 07:40

Brenden wrote:If that were true, then the average weight of a population would remain pretty consistent. In the developed world, it's not. It's increasing, pretty dramatically.


Look up "Leptin" and the "Set-Point".

Obviously, diet and exercise is a factor (especially in childhood). But people write off obesity as the fault of the victim (overlooking a whole variety of genetic and unchangeable environmental factors) because of prejudice.

It's amazing how people are reacting on this thread...It's rather ironic given the prejudice against gays. I guess the gay world is indeed rather shallow (somebody earlier disregarded anorexia nervosa as a disease, another example of intolerance invading peoples' understanding of medicine). Do only the pretty people deserve sympathy (not attacking you personally by the way)?

Derek wrote:So would you characterize having purple eyes or an extremely low IQ as diseases, considering that those conditions also are abnormal, have strong genetic origins, and are resistant to change?


Following your logic, Type 1 Diabetes isn't a disease (as one example amongst many)/
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Derek » 2 April 2014, 07:50

Momentous wrote:It's amazing how people are reacting on this thread...It's rather ironic given the prejudice against gays. I guess the gay world is indeed rather shallow (somebody earlier disregarded anorexia nervosa as a disease, another example of intolerance invading peoples' understanding of medicine). Do only the pretty people deserve sympathy (not attacking you personally by the way)?

How is resisting this change being unsympathetic? If the NYT study is to be believed, it could actually have a pronounced negative effect on the obese. What grates people the wrong way is that an organization that professes to represent practitioners of science is acting in a way that appears politically motivated. What relevance does the stigma of obesity have to medical scientists? And what point is there in prejudicially classifying a condition that affects millions of different people in millions of different ways?

Derek wrote:Following your logic, Type 1 Diabetes isn't a disease (as one example amongst many)/

I was questioning your logic, not mine. For my part, the salient aspect is whether it shows plasticity congruent with changes in its non-genetic environment.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Momentous » 2 April 2014, 08:02

Derek wrote:How is resisting this change being unsympathetic? If the NYT study is to be believed, it could actually have a pronounced negative effect on the obese. What grates people the wrong way is that an organization that professes to represent practitioners of science is acting in a way that appears politically motivated. What relevance does the stigma of obesity have to medical scientists? And what point is there in prejudicially classifying a condition that affects millions of different people in millions of different ways?


Perhaps I'm generalising. But for most people, "obesity" leaves people with distaste in their mouths.

In any case, as somebody who has recently studied this, I can vouch for the legitimacy of the call. There are physiological changed which are brought on by environmental and genetic triggers. And the classifying of the condition is no more prejudicial than classification of any disease with varying symptoms.

Yes, this call is politically motivated. The country wants to get a grasp on public health. It's important for obesity to be seen as what it is - a disease - if people are going to recognise the need to lose weight and slacken the burden on healthcare.

Derek wrote:I was questioning your logic, not mine. For my part, the salient aspect is whether it shows plasticity congruent with changes in its non-genetic environment.


Is lung cancer a disease? Like obesity, people can have a genetic predisposition, however it can be brought on by poor lifestyle choices, and abated by ceasing the unhealthy stimulus. How about Diabetes Type 2? There are plenty of similar examples which are commonly seen as diseases without argument.
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Derek » 2 April 2014, 08:19

Momentous wrote:Yes, this call is politically motivated. The country wants to get a grasp on public health. It's important for obesity to be seen as what it is - a disease - if people are going to recognise the need to lose weight and slacken the burden on healthcare.

Then what's your take on the substantiated suggestion that rebranding obesity as a disease saps people of some of their motivation to fight against it? And will the healthcare system really benefit from an influx of patients demanding expensive treatments, rather than taking common-sense measures such as diet and exercise (which work for the huge majority of cases, despite some variety)?

The AMA is not responsible for politicized pronouncements. There is already a huge movement within the Western world to combat obesity, and it doesn't demand that the scientific community sacrifices its integrity. Don't accuse of us of hypocrisy and callousness when more than the feelings of obese people are at stake.

Momentous wrote:Is lung cancer a disease? Like obesity, people can have a genetic predisposition, however it can be brought on by poor lifestyle choices, and abated by ceasing the unhealthy stimulus. How about Diabetes Type 2? There are plenty of similar examples which are commonly seen as diseases without argument.

Obviously the definitions are complex, but again, I was questioning your logic, not mine. Will you just answer the question I asked?
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Re: Obesity Is Now Labeled As A Disease

Unread postby Brenden » 2 April 2014, 08:22

Momentous wrote:
Brenden wrote:If that were true, then the average weight of a population would remain pretty consistent. In the developed world, it's not. It's increasing, pretty dramatically.

Look up "Leptin" and the "Set-Point".

Leptin resistance sounds a lot more epigenetic than genetic, especially considering it's compared to type-2 diabetes.

Regarding "set point", i.e., homeostasis,
Another important example is seen when the body is deprived of food. The body would then reset the metabolic set point to a lower than normal value. This would allow the body to continue to function, at a slower rate, even though the body is starving. Therefore, people depriving themselves of food while trying to lose weight would find it easy to shed weight initially and much harder to lose more after. This is due to the body's readjusting itself to a lower metabolic set-point to allow the body to survive with its low supply of energy. Exercise can change this effect by increasing the metabolic demand.


So... not set in genetic stone. At all. Entirely epigenetic.

Momentous wrote:Obviously, diet and exercise is a factor (especially in childhood).

They are the biggest factors, by far. This is well-known and well-documented.

Momentous wrote:But people write off obesity as the fault of the victim (overlooking a whole variety of genetic and unchangeable environmental factors) because of prejudice.

I mainly blame the food industry targeting the reward mechanisms in our brains (with copious amounts of sugar, salt, and fat) and people for being ignorant consumers.

Unchangeable environmental factors? What environmental factors are unchangeable?

Momentous wrote:It's amazing how people are reacting on this thread...It's rather ironic given the prejudice against gays. I guess the gay world is indeed rather shallow (somebody earlier disregarded anorexia nervosa as a disease, another example of intolerance invading peoples' understanding of medicine). Do only the pretty people deserve sympathy (not attacking you personally by the way)?

Oh, please. Do shut up with this whole "prejudice against fat people" shtick.

Unless you want to compare me to "former homosexuals".
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