Political debate-calling out mxguy01

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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 16:42

you're thick


Wow, I'm not going to lower myself to that level. Kind of a sad statement that my having an contrary opinion results in such behavior.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 10 April 2018, 17:27

Mxguy, as a seasoned veteran of the internet, I can tell you that it's best to stop replying if you don't expect it to go anywhere enjoyable.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 17:33

Derek wrote:Mxguy, as a seasoned veteran of the internet, I can tell you that it's best to stop replying if you don't expect it to go anywhere enjoyable.


I get that and I'm there now. This has been about as enjoyable as the oral surgeon visit I'm about to leave for. I do appreciate your comment for it's well meaning on my behalf.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Bender » 10 April 2018, 17:52

Banana & Mayo Sandwich
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 00:41

mxguy01 wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:Those are all kind of lame. I think you should get him to expound on his view of meritocracy. He seems to give the impression that he views the poor as being the embodiment of morally failing attitudes and values whereas the well-off are so primarily due to hard work. It’s a popular narrative among the NASCAR crowd.


In reference to me. Well, rather than make an implication ("I think you should get him to expound on his view of meritocracy"), why not rather state what you think.

I did it yesterday in a quite lengthy post: post167945/#p167945

Derek wrote:Mxguy, as a seasoned veteran of the internet, I can tell you that it's best to stop replying if you don't expect it to go anywhere enjoyable.

Are you even old enough to know longer require a booster chair at a restaurant?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 11 April 2018, 02:06

How tall are you, Erick?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 02:23

Derek wrote:How tall are you, Erick?

It’s difficult to say since I’m always slouched over in an endless effort to suck my own penis.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 11 April 2018, 02:49

I want to say 5'8". You can't really tell in any of your photos, but that feels right.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 02:59

Derek wrote:I want to say 5'8". You can't really tell in any of your photos, but that feels right.

I know you’ve mentioned your height before as though it’s relevant to anything. Being tall doesn’t make you a top. It’s all about character and the way you carry yourself. It’s walking into a room and having everyone look below your clavicle to avoid eye contact. It’s finding a man so suave that even when you hate him you want to be in his presence. It’s why you’re always around me.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 11 April 2018, 03:05

That touched a nerve. I'm lowering my estimate to 5'7".
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 11 April 2018, 03:13

poolerboy0077 wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:Those are all kind of lame. I think you should get him to expound on his view of meritocracy. He seems to give the impression that he views the poor as being the embodiment of morally failing attitudes and values whereas the well-off are so primarily due to hard work. It’s a popular narrative among the NASCAR crowd.


In reference to me. Well, rather than make an implication ("I think you should get him to expound on his view of meritocracy"), why not rather state what you think.

I did it yesterday in a quite lengthy post: http://www.gayforum.org/post167945/#p167945

Derek wrote:Mxguy, as a seasoned veteran of the internet, I can tell you that it's best to stop replying if you don't expect it to go anywhere enjoyable.

Are you even old enough to know longer require a booster chair at a restaurant?


And if you actually read what I wrote (quoted below for reference) and not add your interpretation linking it to any negative feelings towards the lower class, you are so way off base. Say what you want but if you read it, it was setting the stage for the questions I posed at the end. As to the very last comment I made, I think it is fair as well. Read the words "opposed to someone who chooses to slide through life doing little for themselves". You are the one linking that directly to "poor" or needy. I'm pointing out cause and reaction. Cause - put little effort forward for yourself, reaction - expect not to have all the things you desire.

There are too many (honestly one is too many so yes maybe a small percentage) who feel they have a god given right to exist but not really contribute to that existence. As to your references of single mother's (BTW you forgot single dads too) of children, yeah I feel for them. However, I will also say if you decide to have children you should be committed to their well being and that includes financially - it should not be other people's burden. Yes, those generally are a shitty situation. Some times no fault of their own. But you specifically use "single mom" so let's go with that a bit. If someone picks a complete dirt bag as a spouse, cranks out a few kids, and golly gee, they end up holding the kids hands by themselves, that should become someone else's problem. Yes, someone's spouse may have passed away, no insurance (back to that financially responsible part though), etc. Let me ask you, which do you think is the more prevalent case? The reality is it does and it has to become others' responsibility because you can't let kids become victims to that (unfortunately they do anyways). Still does not make it right.

Person A I know. Has 4 kids. He worked as a UPS driver. During the economic boom he was counting on overtime to support that family of 4 kids and his wife; and a home in this area (you know, during the housing boom when they were handing out money/loans to anyone). During the downturn, yes he could no longer afford his expenses when overtime got reduced. Person A has was really off when he thought he could support a family of 4 in this area as a UPS driver. To those who thinking that higher tax rates fixes these issues, I will point out that to date it has not worked, what makes you think throwing more money at the problem but changing nothing else is going to work. Sorry yes my view is people need to take more responsibility for themselves in many cases.

Something I tell my own son, and my point here, if you want help from someone, it's best to start with yourself and rightfully so.

As I said, for reference:
[quote=mxguy01]
So the subject of fair taxation: Take my case. The truth is I grew up lower class. At an early age you could tell I wanted more. I had already started a savings account and was putting money away for a car at something like 10 years old. I had a plan that if I put away a couple dollars every week... I started working at 14 as a bus boy under the table. Then above when I could legally work and you know what, I paid my taxes and I've been paying them ever since. I realized at a young age that what I wanted was more than a car. I wanted out of the economic class I was born into. I wanted to leave my parents house and never have to return meaning live with them again. I also wanted to never to have to "borrow" money from my parents. So that car fund became a college fund and I deferred having a car until I had my BS degree and had a my first real job. I paid my own tuition along the way. I lived at home so I would not have to also pay the cost of housing. Yeah, I gave up "college life" too. Not a dollar taken from the Bank of Parents (for all intensive purposes), none in loans. When I left my home town I had $500 to my name but I also had zero debt. Fast forward a few years. Late 20's I recognized if I wanted a decent retirement or even better yet the financial means to do things even before retirement - it would require saving and investing. So I began maxing out retirement contributions every way I could. As years went by additional investing. So I would say I passed up on some things others didn't, to invest in my future. I'm not exactly wealthy. Divorce is brutal to finances. But I don't need much to keep me happy. Sure, I can afford a few things, now. But back to my question: Because I chose the path I chose, had some success financially, I should be forever penalized on an rather unfair burden on the tax rate because I chose that path and I chose to give up some things early to have a better life later? Don't you see how that becomes discouraging for people to do the right thing? Do you really think it is fair for me to pay an obnoxiously higher tax rate opposed to someone who chooses to slide through life doing little for themselves?
[/quote]

So it is said the original post that started the fuss was about the insanely (paraphrased) wealthy have undue influence. My conjecture is that the attitude of "tax the hell out of them" is simply a desire for re-distribution of wealth. There are far more appropriate measures to take rather than strip them of their wealth via taxation. We agree, I have no vested interest at that financial level. Then it should be clear it is not because I will have some personal gain from it. However, I still believe that idea of singling out the top tier of the financially successful to be inherently wrong.

Now on to the practical. Raise those taxes on that class of people and what action you think they will choose? Honestly, I'd bag this country in a heartbeat if I were in there position and that happened. The end result is less tax base and less tax revenue. This is one of few things I would somewhat agree with Trump on although it is being addressed more wrt corporate taxes.

Oh, someone on here mentioned the other day that they show up for work, are noted for a good work ethic, they are liked (me thinks they made themselves likable at work) and opportunities are possibly opening up for them. That's how it works. That's not mediocrity but rather a display of excellence (referring to the work ethic and more). Hopefully success follows but I choose to believe it will.

My own son had ADD. Sorry, another anecdotal (if you don't like them, don't read them and move along) story. Missed being diagnosed for too long. Teachers demoralized up until part way through 9th when we pulled him from the normal school system. Started in grade school and I'm convinced it had /has a negative impact on him. We got him into a program here called Venture. Essentially home schooling but the school system did the proctoring rather than the parents. He started pulling really good grades across the board. He's actually extremely smart. He hates math. And yet when he would take the standardize tests he would score ridiculously high (one time he got 100% score to which we were like WTF). Seriously, he is the nicest human being you could ever meet. But he can be annoyingly distracted. People who don't know of his ADD will often judge him badly because of that. I'm pretty convince he's going to have a tough time in the workplace. I hope for his ADD issue to be easier for him to deal with as he ages. But he also knows that is his to deal with as well. PB, If you think I don't have compassion for people who need help, don't get it, and makes their situation worse, poor or otherwise, your assumption about me can't be more horribly off. I feel strongly that there is a place in this world for everyone. No where in that feeling do I add we should crush people under the burden of poverty for my own prosperity.

IMO, It's rather obvious you have a dim view of me particularly around these subjects. Well, after yesterday and today, a phrase my mother-in-law was fond of comes to mind - "go shit in your hat". I really liked my in-laws; it's sad they passed away some time ago.

Oh, and I thought Al Gore was the self professed seasoned veteran of the internet. <- a joke here, the rest is no joke.

Isn't if funny when you say
"Single mothers who work multiple jobs come to mind. More to the point, rich kids make bad decisions all the time".


So you characterize all single mom's working two jobs as implicitly good and rich kids as inherently bad. Amusing that in essence you do what you accuse me, of just exchanging the roles of the individuals. I know a few kids who come from financially well off families. Really nice kids and not the assholes some what to characterize them as.

I'm sure the above is full of misspellings, typos, bad grammar and what ever else. If you did't like it, you should have stopped reading. If someone wants to fling insults over meaningless crap, immediately assume my response will be "go shit in your hat" and save me the trouble of actually saying it. I really did like my mother-in-law.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 03:51

mxguy01 wrote:Read the words "opposed to someone who chooses to slide through life doing little for themselves". You are the one linking that directly to "poor" or needy. I'm pointing out cause and reaction. Cause - put little effort forward for yourself, reaction - expect not to have all the things you desire.

Considering that the objection was that the heavy tax burden was on those who have more, how could I have not possibly reached that conclusion? Your question was from the get-go a loaded one. No one is penalizing you (your words) for the path you chose. That you perceive it that way is your own interpretation. The question erects a straw man of elevating the best qualities about you, as you represent them, with the worst among us and is irrelevant to the question of fair taxation. Tax revenue isn't stratified based on a disdain for the Protestant work ethic.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 11 April 2018, 04:50

poolerboy0077 wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:Read the words "opposed to someone who chooses to slide through life doing little for themselves". You are the one linking that directly to "poor" or needy. I'm pointing out cause and reaction. Cause - put little effort forward for yourself, reaction - expect not to have all the things you desire.

Considering that the objection was that the heavy tax burden was on those who have more, how could I have not possibly reached that conclusion? Your question was from the get-go a loaded one. No one is penalizing you (your words) for the path you chose. That you perceive it that way is your own interpretation. The question erects a straw man of elevating the best qualities about you, as you represent them, with the worst among us and is irrelevant to the question of fair taxation. Tax revenue isn't stratified based on a disdain for the Protestant work ethic.

Considering that the objection was that the heavy tax burden was on those who have more, how could I have not possibly reached that conclusion?

So therefore your conclusion from that being that I hate people simply because they reside in the "lower class" financially. And that I view mediocrity as something hideous. Yeah, I'm not accepting that. Try again.


Tax revenue isn't stratified based on a disdain for the Protestant work ethic.
No it just penalizes them for any success they have thus being counter productive.

straw man of elevating
You know what, get off your little high horse. Your the one way too high in the air. Simply a narrative of my specifics. Since you bent on it, just change it to the statement that "acting with a little effort towards what is your own best interest" and if you derive a little bit of success with that (no much mind you) buy earning a little more, yes I view the tax brackets as they are laid out as counter productive to incent people to achieve more. <- there you can address that if you like.

I really like your phrasing above where it reads kind of like us vs you. Well not really. But then again I can just be reading it badly.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 11 April 2018, 04:58

Since tax brackets don't apply to income beneath their respective thresholds, I don't see a disincentive.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 11 April 2018, 05:05

So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 05:15

mxguy01 wrote:So therefore your conclusion from that being that I hate people simply because they reside in the "lower class" financially.

Did I say this?

mxguy01 wrote:You know what, get off your little high horse.

You remind me of those people who flip out over anyone broaching a conversation on privilege or racism and taking everything personally.
Last edited by poolerboy0077 on 11 April 2018, 05:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 11 April 2018, 05:16

poolerboy0077 wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:So therefore your conclusion from that being that I hate people simply because they reside in the "lower class" financially.

Did I say this?


I felt that you very much implied that. Yes.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 05:21

mxguy01 wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:So therefore your conclusion from that being that I hate people simply because they reside in the "lower class" financially.

Did I say this?


I felt that you very much implied that. Yes.

Where exactly?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby rogonandi » 11 April 2018, 05:26

mxguy01 wrote:So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?


It's not like the increased taxes will cause them to lose their car, their home and etc unless they're really dodging their taxes and end up getting audited. Even with increased taxes, they still not only get a better standard of living but they get the glorious beautiful pride of being better than those in tax brackets below them! :D
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 11 April 2018, 05:33

rogonandi wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?


It's not like the increased taxes will cause them to lose their car, their home and etc unless they're really dodging their taxes and end up getting audited. Even with increased taxes, they still not only get a better standard of living but they get the glorious beautiful pride of being better than those in tax brackets below them! :D

It’s really an incoherent position. If economic class does not determine whether one is a lazy bum or a hard worker, which he wants to concur that it doesn’t, why then interpret higher taxes on the wealthy as a punishment on success?
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