Trumprage

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Trumprage

Unread postby Ciniselli » 9 December 2015, 09:13

Does anyone else feel like the backlash to Donald Trump's recent "ban muslims" idiocy is somewhat disproportional? It's all over every form of social media I use, and I see articles from just about every press outlet I'm aware of going on about it and how terrible it is. Even people from the UK are obsessing over it and several of our politicians seem to feel an obligation to pass comment on it.

Why is it the case? It seems to me that Trump has said far worse things in the past (describing all Mexicans as rapists and criminals for one) that were just met with bemusement rather than a large scale attack of the vapours.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Derek » 9 December 2015, 09:25

The backlash is probably greater because it's relevant. Stereotyping Mexicans is nothing new in America's political landscape, but it's never mattered more how the world reacts to Muslims.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Marmaduke » 9 December 2015, 11:02

I'd contest that it's worse to describe all followers of a religion as fundamentalist terrorists than to describe a single nationality as criminals, but the fact is that it's everywhere because it's relevant and inflammatory.

Trump's comments on Mexican illegal immigration are not likely to further galvanise radicalised Mexican fundamentalists to continue their war of terror against the US and it's western allies. The US isn't fighting a war against Mexican radicals, because they aren't an issue. The US is dealing with the ever-present risk is mass murder is the name of Islam, it is fighting a war against it overseas, it is constantly preventing incidents at home that could cost people their lives.

Trump's comments on Mexico don't really endanger American lives, be they soldier or civilian. His comments on followers of the Muslim faith will. They'll antagonise those already radicalised, alienate those on the fence and push them towards radicalisation, increasing the danger, and breed a certain sympathy amongst the Muslim right of the extremists in their own faith leading to increased dangers of threats being harboured and hidden at home.

That's why people care more about this than that.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby The Hierophant » 9 December 2015, 11:22

Marmaduke wrote:I'd contest that it's worse to describe all followers of a religion as fundamentalist terrorists than to describe a single nationality as criminals, but the fact is that it's everywhere because it's relevant and inflammatory.

Trump's comments on Mexican illegal immigration are not likely to further galvanise radicalised Mexican fundamentalists to continue their war of terror against the US and it's western allies. The US isn't fighting a war against Mexican radicals, because they aren't an issue. The US is dealing with the ever-present risk is mass murder is the name of Islam, it is fighting a war against it overseas, it is constantly preventing incidents at home that could cost people their lives.

Trump's comments on Mexico don't really endanger American lives, be they soldier or civilian. His comments on followers of the Muslim faith will. They'll antagonise those already radicalised, alienate those on the fence and push them towards radicalisation, increasing the danger, and breed a certain sympathy amongst the Muslim right of the extremists in their own faith leading to increased dangers of threats being harboured and hidden at home.

That's why people care more about this than that.

Don't you think that you're ascribing an awful lot of power to Trump? I can't see anything that he's done inspiring a terrorist attack.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Marmaduke » 9 December 2015, 11:53

The Hierophant wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:I'd contest that it's worse to describe all followers of a religion as fundamentalist terrorists than to describe a single nationality as criminals, but the fact is that it's everywhere because it's relevant and inflammatory.

Trump's comments on Mexican illegal immigration are not likely to further galvanise radicalised Mexican fundamentalists to continue their war of terror against the US and it's western allies. The US isn't fighting a war against Mexican radicals, because they aren't an issue. The US is dealing with the ever-present risk is mass murder is the name of Islam, it is fighting a war against it overseas, it is constantly preventing incidents at home that could cost people their lives.

Trump's comments on Mexico don't really endanger American lives, be they soldier or civilian. His comments on followers of the Muslim faith will. They'll antagonise those already radicalised, alienate those on the fence and push them towards radicalisation, increasing the danger, and breed a certain sympathy amongst the Muslim right of the extremists in their own faith leading to increased dangers of threats being harboured and hidden at home.

That's why people care more about this than that.m

Don't you think that you're ascribing an awful lot of power to Trump? I can't see anything that he's done inspiring a terrorist attack.


I'm not ascribing "power" to Trump, it is not my assertion that ISIS are the Islamic fist of the Donald, he has exercised no power. I'm ascribing influence to his ignorance, and I would hope we can agree that the scope of Donald's ignorance is nothing if not impressive for a man in his position.

ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State/Al Qaeda/Boko Haram/Daesh, whatever label you would like to ascribe them, Salafi Jihadis. They're the issue at hand. They are the ones using the perception of oppression, condemnation of and discrimination against Islam to radicalise and recruit martyrs to the cause. It's their bread and butter, they're really very good at it. Without it, they can't recruit and we find ourselves in the happy state of affairs that eventually they will all blow themselves up or get blown up by a drone. It is recruitment that is the persistent issue, jihadism relies on it. It cannot function without it. Anything that makes it easier for them to recruit makes them stronger, anything that makes them stronger increases the risk they present.

Do I ascribe direct "power" to the Donald? No, he has no direct influence over those leading the holy war against the west whatsoever. They love him though. Why? Because he is a man of great influence, he is a global brand and symbol of western life, he is increasingly likely to be the leader of the free world. When the prospective leader of the free world tells an entire faith that, to him - regardless of race, creed, circumstance or nationality - they aren't welcome anywhere he has influence over because, to him, they're all as good as murderers and walking bombs then I would hope you can appreciate how eve the shittiest intern in the jihadi press office might be able to convincingly spin that as a tool to steer Muslims that, through no fault of their own, are uneducated and otherwise ignorant of the situation towards the impression that fighting in the holy war is the right thing for them to do. That the Donald is oppressing and discriminating against their Muslim brothers and sisters in the west stand to labour beneath the boot heel of a bouffant tyrant

You're mystified as to how his remarks might be influential? How they're quite relevant and a rare instance of the press focusing on a story that needs telling? That the danger inherent in electing that man to office is what we should all be talking about all the time, mystified at how we could've let this state of affairs come to be?
Last edited by Marmaduke on 10 December 2015, 09:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby rxxli » 9 December 2015, 22:49

I agree with Marmaduke. Well...mostly.

He is right in the reasoning. Him saying those things does have an impact. I just don't think that most people have given it so much thought. Most people are outraged because it's cool to be outraged about something. And everyone will find something else next week. At least they have chosen the right thing to be outraged about for once.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Onur » 10 December 2015, 21:47

I agree with the op as I also see the news about Trump's remarks all over the media. What I am worried about is that the media is advertising him. The more there is news about Trump on the media, the more famous he becomes.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Yeauxleaux » 11 December 2015, 00:14

I think some backlash is justified (whick I'm sure you'd all agree) but I do agree that it's excessive. It's a politician saying stupid shit he'll probably regret later. Where's the news?

That said, The USA needs to take some of these Syrian refugees. The USA has more than enough land area, resources, wealth and population to absorb these refugees. Europe doesn't, we're swamped.

I'm against any and all religious involvement in the state and I have no time or sympathy for Sharia apologetics, but this is not time to be bickering about "real Islam" or "can we trust Muslims?". As Marmaduke said, groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and The Taliban push a false "victim" narrative to gain support. These are not "pro-Muslim" groups who are all about Muslim consciousness and "being offended at Islamophobia". These are groups who will cry about "Islamophobia" on one hand, and will then blow up a marketplace in Baghdad... full of Muslims. Don't fall for their bullshit. They will kill anyone indiscriminately, even practicing Muslims, who they will throw under the bus for some political power as fast as they'd throw us gays.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby MisterTinkles » 14 December 2015, 04:20

I like Trump, so there! LOL

I will admit he's gotten full of himself lately, and thats causing him to shove both feet in his mouth!
I wish he would take a break and rethink all this political stuff he's spouting.

I know he means well, but what comes out of his mouth sometimes............


I do understand his anger though. And we DO need someone in the Oval Office who has the balls and guts to do something about taking control of the safety of the USA, instead of sitting around playing golf and just collecting a free paycheck, like the current administration is doing.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Jacketh » 14 December 2015, 06:49

MisterTinkles wrote:I like Trump, so there! LOL

.


What policies do you support that you feel will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 14 December 2015, 06:59

Jacketh wrote:
MisterTinkles wrote:I like Trump, so there! LOL

.


What policies do you support that you feel will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

Most of the responses to this question that I've come across are his supposed candor, his unrelenting tenacity, saying what his supporters are all thinking, and being unapologetic. It's eerily similar to the rhetoric of this one former member named Chibi; you may have heard of him.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Sullivan » 15 December 2015, 02:49

MisterTinkles wrote:I like Trump, so there! LOL

I will admit he's gotten full of himself lately, and thats causing him to shove both feet in his mouth!
I wish he would take a break and rethink all this political stuff he's spouting.

I know he means well, but what comes out of his mouth sometimes............


I do understand his anger though. And we DO need someone in the Oval Office who has the balls and guts to do something about taking control of the safety of the USA, instead of sitting around playing golf and just collecting a free paycheck, like the current administration is doing.

You sound like a middle-aged white guy with a mediocre education.

Is any of that true?
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby homomorphism » 15 December 2015, 02:56

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Jacketh wrote:
MisterTinkles wrote:I like Trump, so there! LOL

.


What policies do you support that you feel will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

Most of the responses to this question that I've come across are his supposed candor, his unrelenting tenacity, saying what his supporters are all thinking, and being unapologetic. It's eerily similar to the rhetoric of this one former member named Chibi; you may have heard of him.

He's practical, not logical.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 16 December 2015, 02:32

homomorphism wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
Jacketh wrote:
MisterTinkles wrote:I like Trump, so there! LOL

.


What policies do you support that you feel will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN?

Most of the responses to this question that I've come across are his supposed candor, his unrelenting tenacity, saying what his supporters are all thinking, and being unapologetic. It's eerily similar to the rhetoric of this one former member named Chibi; you may have heard of him.

He's practical, not logical.

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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby acpro » 16 December 2015, 03:39

Marmaduke wrote:I'd contest that it's worse to describe all followers of a religion as fundamentalist terrorists than to describe a single nationality as criminals, but the fact is that it's everywhere because it's relevant and inflammatory.

Trump's comments on Mexican illegal immigration are not likely to further galvanise radicalised Mexican fundamentalists to continue their war of terror against the US and it's western allies. The US isn't fighting a war against Mexican radicals, because they aren't an issue. The US is dealing with the ever-present risk is mass murder is the name of Islam, it is fighting a war against it overseas, it is constantly preventing incidents at home that could cost people their lives.

Trump's comments on Mexico don't really endanger American lives, be they soldier or civilian. His comments on followers of the Muslim faith will. They'll antagonise those already radicalised, alienate those on the fence and push them towards radicalisation, increasing the danger, and breed a certain sympathy amongst the Muslim right of the extremists in their own faith leading to increased dangers of threats being harboured and hidden at home.

That's why people care more about this than that.


Trump would say Mexican radicals are the drug cartels and supposedly there's a war on drugs.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby yagyug » 17 December 2015, 13:24

The Hierophant wrote:Don't you think that you're ascribing an awful lot of power to Trump?


Well... the man is currently looking like he'll be one of two contenders for the most powerful and influential Presidency in the world, who has been dominating the world's news cycle for months. :|

Obviously Hilary is and always was going to win it from day one, but still he's not exactly powerless.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Derek » 17 December 2015, 13:37

yagyug wrote:
The Hierophant wrote:Don't you think that you're ascribing an awful lot of power to Trump?


Well... the man is currently looking like he'll be one of two contenders for the most powerful and influential Presidency in the world, who has been dominating the world's news cycle for months. :|

Obviously Hilary is and always was going to win it from day one, but still he's not exactly powerless.

It depends on the outcome. If he secures the nomination and then is defeated in a landslide, it will give his opponent a powerful mandate. He might turn out to be worse than powerless.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby yagyug » 17 December 2015, 14:02

Derek wrote:
yagyug wrote:
The Hierophant wrote:Don't you think that you're ascribing an awful lot of power to Trump?


Well... the man is currently looking like he'll be one of two contenders for the most powerful and influential Presidency in the world, who has been dominating the world's news cycle for months. :|

Obviously Hilary is and always was going to win it from day one, but still he's not exactly powerless.

It depends on the outcome. If he secures the nomination and then is defeated in a landslide, it will give his opponent a powerful mandate. He might turn out to be worse than powerless.


I wouldn't be too worried about Hillary getting a mandate. Pretty much her one redeeming trait is that she lacks any kind of driving political philosophy. She's always been centerist populist for the most part, and the very fact that she's got the nerve to be both a Democrat and a woman means that she's going to face a very hostile Republican congress from the mid-terms if not outright from her election.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Derek » 18 December 2015, 08:20

I think you overestimate how much her being a woman matters. We're not actually that backwards.
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Re: Trumprage

Unread postby Ko » 19 December 2015, 18:45

Less publicity for this cunt please. :facepalm:
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