2020 Presidential Election | General

Discuss the news, current events, politics, etc.

If the election were held today and you could vote in it, who would you vote for?

Poll ended at 3 November 2020, 10:58

Donald Trump (Republican)
1
5%
Joe Biden (Democratic)
15
68%
Jo Jorgensen (Libertarian)
1
5%
Howie Hawkins (Green)
2
9%
Brock Pierce (independent)
0
No votes
Kanye West (Birthday Party)
1
5%
other (e.g., write-in)
2
9%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby René » 20 November 2020, 08:45

John27 wrote:
René wrote:
Derek wrote:Have they visited you in Scotland?

No, mainly because they can't get the time off work... which is one of their problems with the US.

It's not a problem! It's a feature! Don't you know the only value normal people have in the US is to keep the wheels of the economy turning: by working all the time, and by being heavy consumers, complete with massive credit card debt? This is necessary for the good of those who actually do matter: the billionaires and corporations!

It's dumb even in that sense, because workers who take vacations actually perform better.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby John27 » 20 November 2020, 09:07

René wrote:The crazy thing is... many of her explicitly stated reasons are things like the universal healthcare and the pandemic income support... the fact that our government takes better care of people. Lots of socialist stuff.


Not necessarily totally crazy. Well, it's crazy, but understandable. I gather there are a lot of conservatives like that, who still support things like Medicare For All. Progressive commentators will cite poll statistics that show support for Medicare For All with Republicans. I think I've even heard some polls are above 50%. (Or putting it another way: fewer Democrats in Congress actively support Medicare For All than Republican voters. That should tell us all something about how rotten the Democratic Party is, beholden to their special interests.)

This last point leads me to this:
she votes for politicians in the US who do everything they can to make it the exact opposite of what she likes about what she hears about Scotland.


Problem is that it's very likely she doesn't have the option of voting for people who support what she likes about Scotland. We don't have a left party here in the US. The most we have is left wing of a conservative party--and the rest of that conservative party has size and resources to make sure that the left wing is kept powerless.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Brenden » 20 November 2020, 17:52

John27 wrote:
she votes for politicians in the US who do everything they can to make it the exact opposite of what she likes about what she hears about Scotland.

Problem is that it's very likely she doesn't have the option of voting for people who support what she likes about Scotland. We don't have a left party here in the US. The most we have is left wing of a conservative party--and the rest of that conservative party has size and resources to make sure that the left wing is kept powerless.

Even if Bernie were the (D) candidate, she would not vote for him because (D) and "socialism" (hiss, hiss, boo, boo).
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Derek » 20 November 2020, 19:07

See, my mom is more ideologically conservative. Whatever Trump awakened in her also led her down the path to supply-side laissez-faire economics, and she reliably parrots Kochesque talking points about everything ranging from covid to the SEC. When it comes to examples set by other countries about how, yes, it is actually possible to do things better, her response is pure denial. She probably believes Scotland is a shithole, and if she visited she would ignore the evidence of her own eyes and ears. She's mentioned in the past that Canadian healthcare is basically just death camps and you can't take two steps in Sweden without getting raped by a muslim. There's no cracking that nut.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Brenden » 20 November 2020, 21:08

My mom uses "liberal Democrat" as a general insult. Like while driving, rather than saying "asshole" or something towards other drivers she calls them "liberal Democrats".

It's all very tribal.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Severelius » 20 November 2020, 22:01

Good to know other people have illogically politically tribal mothers too.

I think every time the subject of the government has ever come up in the last decade all my mum has ever done is complain about literally every single going on with the government. Which has been run by Tories for 10 years. And yet every election she still votes Tory.

When Theresa May resigned and before Boris was coronated as the new Tory leader she spent all her time complaining about how much she absolutely hates Boris Johnson on a fundamental level.

She voted Tory in 2019.

I think with her it's that she hates them but on long-ingrained instinct she hates Labour just a little bit more, especially during the Corbyn years because he was, in her words, "as useless as men's nipples."

She slags off Trump at every opportunity but if she was American there is 0% of a chance she votes for Joe Biden. Because for her he'd be too much of a left-wing loonie.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Brenden » 20 November 2020, 22:06

René wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
René wrote:
Derek wrote:You know, maybe your mom only wants to move to Scotland to be closer to you. Maybe it's touching instead of baffling.

The crazy thing is... many of her explicitly stated reasons are things like the universal healthcare and the pandemic income support... the fact that our government takes better care of people. Lots of socialist stuff. It's like there's this disconnect in her brain where she doesn't realise she votes for politicians in the US who do everything they can to make it the exact opposite of what she likes about what she hears about Scotland. :runaway:

What’s her opinion on darkies?

I'm not exactly sure, but I imagine she likes "the good ones" but thinks most of them are bad and treats them with suspicion. :P Brenden?

That's basically the case. She thinks most Latinos have gotten into the country illegally, and most black people are lazy welfare queens. She thinks she immigrated the right way (she didn't) and that she's been working hard her whole life to support lazy people. Of course, the black and brown people she personally knows are good, upstanding people, but she also "knows" many of the bad ones — third-hand via gossip and chain emails and such, but to her it might as well be first-hand knowledge, she has difficulty differentiating and judging the provenance of information.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Derek » 20 November 2020, 22:17

Men's nipples aren't useless. She's just not using them correctly.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby René » 20 November 2020, 22:19

Derek wrote:Men's nipples aren't useless. She's just not using them correctly.

:nod:
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Severelius » 20 November 2020, 22:35

Derek wrote:Men's nipples aren't useless. She's just not using them correctly.

And I want to try to explain that to her even less than I want to try explain that no mum the reason more black people are in jail isn't because black people are instinctively criminals, or no mum the reason Coronavirus cases are going up isn't just because they're testing more people.

On the list of her opinions I disagree with, the uselessness of men's nipples is a very low priority. I figure the only thing me and her actually agree on is that "hey, maybe don't be a dick to gay people" though sometimes I suspect she only adopts that attitude around me because I happen to be one.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Derek » 21 November 2020, 03:45

Per usual, Omar is the coolest one.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby PopTart » 21 November 2020, 08:03

You realise ofcourse, your all participating in the same tribalistic behaviour, right?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby John27 » 21 November 2020, 08:16

Derek wrote:Men's nipples aren't useless. She's just not using them correctly.


I'd love to witness the conversation between a son and his mother about what I understand are some of the possible uses of male nipples...
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby rogonandi » 21 November 2020, 15:52

PopTart wrote:You realise ofcourse, your all participating in the same tribalistic behaviour, right?

Indeed and it is transcendently beautiful! :keke:
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby PopTart » 21 November 2020, 17:15

rogonandi wrote:
PopTart wrote:You realise ofcourse, your all participating in the same tribalistic behaviour, right?

Indeed and it is transcendently beautiful! :keke:

Your enthusiasm is sweet :keke:

But tribalism isn't progress. It's the very opposite of progress.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Brenden » 21 November 2020, 17:49

You're comparing people like my mom using "Democrat" and "liberal" as general insults to… what? Us discussing politics?

How can we be tribal when we're not part of a tribe? I'm not a Democrat. Derek's not a Democrat. Most of the people here are not partisans.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby rogonandi » 21 November 2020, 19:16

PopTart wrote:
rogonandi wrote:
PopTart wrote:You realise ofcourse, your all participating in the same tribalistic behaviour, right?

Indeed and it is transcendently beautiful! :keke:

Your enthusiasm is sweet :keke:

But tribalism isn't progress. It's the very opposite of progress.

Oh, I know that. :lol:
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Magic J » 21 November 2020, 20:38

PopTart wrote:But tribalism isn't progress. It's the very opposite of progress.

Tribalistic is a strong word. I'd actually agree that it's a fairly useful term to describe the general US political climate, but what worries me is when there's a conflation between "tribalism" and "having a strong view on an issue". I wouldn't describe Derek, for instance, as being tribalistic, because whilst he appears to have strong views, he's clearly not in lockstep with either of the political "tribes". It's not the same as intrangience, either: one could be unreasonably intrangient without being tribalistic. I'd say that requires a more "us and them" kind of attitude, usually with some conception of distinct and opposed "cultures" or worldviews? Maybe.

Severelius wrote:Coronavirus cases are going up isn't just because they're testing more people.

In all my ignorance, I know that statistics are tricky things, but the bottom line here is very simple: there are more real, flesh and blood people presenting to hospitals with COVID symptoms. I assume that the figures for that are routinely ignored. :P

Also, Jesus Christ, these cartoons are so dumb. Why does he lable fucking everything? A wit he certainly is not.

So, so dumb. They do look pretty though, so there's that. Moar please.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby Derek » 21 November 2020, 21:18

Nah fam, tribalism is when people have opinions and your opinion is that no one should have opinions.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election | General

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 21 November 2020, 21:47

Brenden wrote:
René wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
René wrote:
Derek wrote:You know, maybe your mom only wants to move to Scotland to be closer to you. Maybe it's touching instead of baffling.

The crazy thing is... many of her explicitly stated reasons are things like the universal healthcare and the pandemic income support... the fact that our government takes better care of people. Lots of socialist stuff. It's like there's this disconnect in her brain where she doesn't realise she votes for politicians in the US who do everything they can to make it the exact opposite of what she likes about what she hears about Scotland. :runaway:

What’s her opinion on darkies?

I'm not exactly sure, but I imagine she likes "the good ones" but thinks most of them are bad and treats them with suspicion. :P Brenden?

That's basically the case. She thinks most Latinos have gotten into the country illegally, and most black people are lazy welfare queens. She thinks she immigrated the right way (she didn't) and that she's been working hard her whole life to support lazy people. Of course, the black and brown people she personally knows are good, upstanding people, but she also "knows" many of the bad ones — third-hand via gossip and chain emails and such, but to her it might as well be first-hand knowledge, she has difficulty differentiating and judging the provenance of information.

It’s scary how many people think this way, including many of the non-Cuban latino voters who voted for Trump. All one has to do is scream socialism and appeal to people’s fears of societal disorder with police defunding and their self respect goes right out the door.
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