2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | nEw PolL

Discuss the news, current events, politics, etc.

Will you vote for Joe Biden? (Or would you if you could.)

Yes
11
58%
No
7
37%
Maybe
1
5%
 
Total votes : 19

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Derek » 12 February 2020, 17:36

The bog standard ones? Capital is the engine of modern economies, free exchange is the mechanism of growth, yadda yadda. I don't disbelieve those things now, I just don't think inequality and the other sicknesses of our society are either necessary byproducts of a healthy economy or acceptable outcomes of a rightfully amoral machinery.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby John27 » 13 February 2020, 02:23

Brenden wrote:The Democrats didn’t lose because they’re too progressive and not centrist enough. That’s literally the exactly opposite of what’s been happening the last 10 years, culminating in Hillary’s monumental loss to Donald Trump. Hillary is ridiculously centrist. Following Obama’s first victory, the Democrats ran centrist, moderate candidate after centrist, moderate candidate and lost thousands of seats at all levels of government across the country.


I agree, except the "moderate" approach has probably actually been the thing a lot longer than the last 10 years. I'd say it goes back to at least the Bill Clinton era.

Obama was seemingly an exception in 2008. He certainly sounded progressive. But my view is that he shifted right when it came to actually being president. I think it was Kyle Kulinski who said that Obama was a good Republican president.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby John27 » 13 February 2020, 02:52

René wrote:There are many reasons to dislike PB, but one that particularly stands out to me after a recent healthcare experience is that, if I understand his position correctly, he wants to keep the horrendously inefficient healthcare system in the US largely the same, with a gigantic amount of money being spent each year just on billing administration and people unable to go see whatever doctor they want whenever they want at no cost to them or to go to whatever hospital they want when they need to.


The last I heard, he was in favor of "Medicare for All Who Want It." In other words, a public option added to our already falling apart wreck of a system. But who knows what he'll support if elected? At one point, he did support true Medicare for All, but he changed his stance. This is one reason I don't like him--well, one of two reasons. First, I also support going 100% single payer. Secondly, I don't like the fact that he changed his mind. It leaves me with a feeling that his real opinion is only that which is most politically expedient for himself at the moment. Sanders has the Medicare for All voters, and so perhaps Buttigieg changed his heath insurance view so he can appeal to someone else in order to get elected.

PB doesn't get any part of what is fundamentally wrong with healthcare in the US.


Maybe. One thing that is certain: he's not alone.

I honestly wonder about Democrats who aren't for Medicare for All. How much is a belief that there are ways of fixing the system that might work better (at least in the short term)? How much of the belief in the status quo is influenced by what they see as current political/system realities? And--cynically--I really wonder how much might be influenced by their big dollar donors?
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Derek » 13 February 2020, 03:17

PB doesn't get any part of what is fundamentally wrong with healthcare in the US.

Wait, poolerboy is running for president? I guess he might split the vote of people who think it's fine when Biden smells his granddaughter's hair.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 13 February 2020, 03:39

Wait, why would that be wrong? Serious question. :shifty:
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby René » 13 February 2020, 08:20

:lol:
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 24 February 2020, 17:59

Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
Ramzus: I can admit that I'm horny just about 24/7
homomorphism: I used to not think your name was deshay and that Erick was just being racist
Hunter: sometimes I think I was literally born to be a pornstar
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Brenden » 24 February 2020, 18:41


FUCK THIS GUY IN PARTICULAR.

"The Vermont independent would ban the fracking of natural gas, which is — if you control the methane emissions — a useful transitional fuel from dirty coal to clean wind and solar."

It has been shown that methane leakage occurs even at supposedly well-constructed and maintained sites, and methane is 34 times worse than carbon dioxide. It is not a useful transitional fuel at all! It's several nails in the climate's well-insulated coffin.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Brenden » 24 February 2020, 23:54

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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Derek » 25 February 2020, 00:14

Personally I think they're too cowardly to try it. Even if they wanted to they'd probably do a NYT and try to get Warren and Klobuchar to run as co-presidents.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby René » 25 February 2020, 06:17

Derek wrote:Personally I think they're too cowardly to try it.

That's been my feeling as well. They must know things would not end well for them if they so openly defied the will of the people. I imagine there is a more backhanded plan to ensure that Bernie is seen as losing.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Courage » 25 February 2020, 08:02

Bernie has such a squeaky clean reputation and history. Even if our views differed, I'd still respect him as a good person, but I agree with most of his policies. These debates have caused me to start hating other Democratic candidates. So much mudslinging and calling Bernie a socialist, they barely talk about their own policies or what they've done for the country. They really have no ammunition to use against him because he's never put himself in a position that makes him look disreputable.


1) He's a millionaire because he's 78 fucking years old. Do people not realize this is super attainable for college graduates after working for 50 years? There's a difference between being a doctor or attorney or (the only moral) politician and earning a million dollars, as opposed to being an heir or "too big to fail" business owner that only wants political power to shit on worker's rights and make more money they'll never use.

2) Having a few socialist policies doesn't make you comparable to a fascist dictator who massacred people. The U.S. already has tons of socialist policies like medicare, medicaid, SNAP, WIC, etc. Old people and veterans already get free healthcare so they don't give a fuck if the rest of us die. "Socialism benefits for me, not for thee".


All I hear about in every debate is how giving people an extremely basic necessity like healthcare is stealing from hard-working average Joes, "Bernie is a millionaire too", or "Bernie is a nazi communist".


The other candidates seem like distractions at this point. Biden is so moderate he's practically a Republican. He wants absolutely no change in the status quo, not to mention nobody likes him. Buttigieg is just Hillary 2.0. "yay [strike]female[/strike ]gay president" It's shameful how many LGBT people want him just because he's gay. Sanders has been an LGBT ally for decades, he doesn't need to be gay to be better for gay people. Warren is one of the better candidates we've had in a long time but she's still nowhere near as ideal as Bernie. That being said, I'd be happy with any plausible Demorat candidate other than Bloomberg or Biden.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby John27 » 25 February 2020, 09:48

Courage wrote:He's a millionaire because he's 78 fucking years old. Do people not realize this is super attainable for college graduates after working for 50 years? There's a difference between being a doctor or attorney or (the only moral) politician and earning a million dollars, as opposed to being an heir or "too big to fail" business owner that only wants political power to shit on worker's rights and make more money they'll never use.


Indeed. And while I haven't paid attention to the people flinging "he's a millionaire!" about, I'd guess none of them were ever bothered by the wealth the Clintons have. And I'd also guess a lot of those people wouldn't be bothered by Bloomberg, either, if it meant "no Sanders presidency."

Old people and veterans already get free healthcare so they don't give a fuck if the rest of us die. "Socialism benefits for me, not for thee".


It's interesting that I had a "discussion" about my support of Medicare for All with a couple of people I know, who don't support the idea in the least. I heard the usual B.S. about "wait times" and one thing that hinted at the "death panel" type B.S. It's interesting that both--both--either have or have access to some sort of government health care (one has VA access).


The other candidates seem like distractions at this point. Biden is so moderate he's practically a Republican.


I think of him--and the Clintons and Obama-as Republican Lite.


He wants absolutely no change in the status quo, not to mention nobody likes him.


Yes. I get the feeling his attitude is "we dial back to 2016, and all will be well."

Hillary seemed to have the same attitude--all is just so wonderful, and we'll just hit cruise control for 8 years!

Meanwhile, in the real world, the status quo isn't good for a lot of people. Things weren't so wonderful in 2016 for a lot of people. Which is a reason why ended up with a President Trump--a lot of people were so frustrated they thought "we might as well try Trump!" (Admittedly, bad idea--but unlike many "good Democrats," I understand the frustration these people had.)

Buttigieg is just Hillary 2.0. "yay [strike]female[/strike ]gay president" It's shameful how many LGBT people want him just because he's gay.


Yes. On another forum, there is at least one gay man--and probably more--who are very outspoken supporters of Buttigieg.

Buttiegieg also makes me think of Obama in 2008. He can sound vaguely progressive at times, at least in some clips I've seen, but I'm pretty sure if elected, he'll be just another Republican Lite Democrat.


Sanders has been an LGBT ally for decades, he doesn't need to be gay to be better for gay people.


Absolutely. And he was an ally long before other high profile Democrats decided it would be convenient to "evolve" to support LGBT issues.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby rado84 » 25 February 2020, 10:48

Me and my dirty mind... I read "2020 US presidential eRection". :D

I'm not American but if I were, I would vote for a democratic guy who is an atheist. The atheist won't separate the nation (and the world - indirectly), like the current idiot president does.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Derek » 25 February 2020, 17:36

rado84 wrote:Me and my dirty mind... I read "2020 US presidential eRection". :D

I'm not American but if I were, I would vote for a democratic guy who is an atheist. The atheist won't separate the nation (and the world - indirectly), like the current idiot president does.

This is the kind of analysis a 16-year-old would write in the comments section of a Sam Harris video.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Courage » 25 February 2020, 17:40

John27 wrote:
Courage wrote:He's a millionaire because he's 78 fucking years old. Do people not realize this is super attainable for college graduates after working for 50 years? There's a difference between being a doctor or attorney or (the only moral) politician and earning a million dollars, as opposed to being an heir or "too big to fail" business owner that only wants political power to shit on worker's rights and make more money they'll never use.


Indeed. And while I haven't paid attention to the people flinging "he's a millionaire!" about, I'd guess none of them were ever bothered by the wealth the Clintons have. And I'd also guess a lot of those people wouldn't be bothered by Bloomberg, either, if it meant "no Sanders presidency."




They're specifically targeting Sanders because he wants to increase taxes on the wealthy and he isn't sugar-coating the fact that this country is about to riot over wage stagnation for the working class while the rich get richer. Opponents are trying to make it look like he's just as bad as the 1% he's trying to get to contribute to society. Just because he has a vacation home doesn't make him part of the issue. He's still working at 78 years old and plans to continue working until age 82 at the bare minimum. It's not like he's golfing all the time while abusing his position as president to barter with our enemies to become even richer like Trump is.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Derek » 25 February 2020, 18:06

Bernie would be our first non-golfing president and we should elect him on that basis alone.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 25 February 2020, 21:31

Derek wrote:Bernie would be our first non-golfing president and we should elect him on that basis alone.

This is correct. A lot of people forget about FDR kicking the golf balls from his wheelchair into the holes.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby rado84 » 25 February 2020, 23:21

Derek wrote:This is the kind of analysis a 16-year-old would write in the comments section of a Sam Harris video.

The whole world sees Chump's an idiot, only you don't. LOL
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | NEW POLL

Unread postby Derek » 26 February 2020, 00:51

rado84 wrote:
Derek wrote:This is the kind of analysis a 16-year-old would write in the comments section of a Sam Harris video.

The whole world sees Chump's an idiot, only you don't. LOL

...Yeah.
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