2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Discuss the news, current events, politics, etc.

Which (D) candidates do you have a favorable opinion of at this point?

Kamala Harris
2
12%
Pete Buttigieg
6
35%
Marianne Williamson
3
18%
Andrew Yang
6
35%
Tulsi Gabbard
5
29%
Tim Ryan
1
6%
Cory Booker
0
No votes
Jay Inslee
4
24%
Eric Swalwell
0
No votes
Kirsten Gillibrand
2
12%
John Delaney
0
No votes
Bernie Sanders
12
71%
Joe Biden
2
12%
Julián Castro
2
12%
Amy Klobuchar
1
6%
Bill de Blasio
1
6%
John Hickenlooper
1
6%
Elizabeth Warren
8
47%
Beto O'Rourke
1
6%
Michael Bennet
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 57

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby rogonandi » 22 August 2019, 13:41

Derek wrote:
rogonandi wrote:
Derek wrote:I wasn't aware the democratic party had ideals.


They have them. They just need to be given the chance to show them.

Like in 2016 with Hillary "It's My Turn" Clinton?

If they nominate Biden, I'm not voting. I'd rather have four more years of Trump than validate the undulating mass of nothing he represents.


I’m not talking about Clinton, or Biden, or anyone specific. I’m talking about a more generalized attitude in keeping government as, well, less evil then it could otherwise be.

Taking your ball and going home when it comes to voting and potentially letting that troglodyte have 4 more years is incredibly petty, and an excellent example of what I’m talking about...but I think you’re just trying to troll me and I’m just not interested. :finger:
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby rogonandi » 22 August 2019, 13:52

Brenden wrote:
rogonandi wrote:
Derek wrote:I wasn't aware the democratic party had ideals.

They have them. They just need to be given the chance to show them.

The Democratic Party had control of the Presidency and both chambers of Congress between 20 January 2009 and 3 January 2011.

And if they had control for longer, they’d be able to clean up the rest of the debt messes left behind by the republicans but I can clearly see many folks scream “you’re not fixing things fast enough!!!!!!111one” and things switch back to republican to indulge in tax relief that ends up re-swamping the country in debt. :facepalm2:
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Derek » 22 August 2019, 17:39

rogonandi wrote:
Derek wrote:
rogonandi wrote:
Derek wrote:I wasn't aware the democratic party had ideals.


They have them. They just need to be given the chance to show them.

Like in 2016 with Hillary "It's My Turn" Clinton?

If they nominate Biden, I'm not voting. I'd rather have four more years of Trump than validate the undulating mass of nothing he represents.


I’m not talking about Clinton, or Biden, or anyone specific. I’m talking about a more generalized attitude in keeping government as, well, less evil then it could otherwise be.

Taking your ball and going home when it comes to voting and potentially letting that troglodyte have 4 more years is incredibly petty, and an excellent example of what I’m talking about...but I think you’re just trying to troll me and I’m just not interested. :finger:

I'm not trolling. It's the tepid politics of mainstream democrats that landed us with Trump in the first place. Obama had a talent for not saying much while still seeming inspiring, but Clinton and Biden have exposed how little he actually stood for. What even is Biden's pitch? Another abortive attempt at mass-market, third-party, quasi-governmental healthcare? The exact same foreign policy except occasionally calling out Israeli politicians who tweet that Palestinian babies should be thrown into meat grinders? Bring the 39% top marginal tax rate back up from 37%?

The inability of democrats to defeat Trump was a damning indictment of their entire being and I'm not super invested in returning to the status quo.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby rogonandi » 22 August 2019, 19:55

Derek wrote:I'm not trolling. It's the tepid politics of mainstream democrats that landed us with Trump in the first place. Obama had a talent for not saying much while still seeming inspiring, but Clinton and Biden have exposed how little he actually stood for. What even is Biden's pitch? Another abortive attempt at mass-market, third-party, quasi-governmental healthcare? The exact same foreign policy except occasionally calling out Israeli politicians who tweet that Palestinian babies should be thrown into meat grinders? Bring the 39% top marginal tax rate back up from 37%?

The inability of democrats to defeat Trump was a damning indictment of their entire being and I'm not super invested in returning to the status quo.


Personally I think the only reason Trump got in was because people didn’t like the idea of Clinton as the alternative. Trump may be the first US president elected out of spite.

Even if Biden is the one the Dems choose, (and that’s not a sure thing as of now) the Americans need to remember that it is going to take a long time to improve their situation. It’s going to take multiple presidents, not just the next one. Even a blah, caretaker president currently without a clear plan can be reasoned with by his political party.

From what I have seen, the current president is a little less reasonable than a four year old throwing a tantrum because he didn’t get (Greenland...? :confused: ) the toy he wanted.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Jzone » 22 August 2019, 21:20

Derek wrote:The inability of democrats to defeat Trump was a damning indictment of their entire being and I'm not super invested in returning to the status quo.

The willingness of the RNC to support Trump was a damning indictment of their entire being. How will you feel when the current administration's policies, rhetoric, and communication style become the status quo?
Last edited by Jzone on 22 August 2019, 21:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 22 August 2019, 21:21

jimbo_xix wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:On the topic of immigration again, am I alone in thinking that part of the magic of traveling to different countries is expecting that the majority of the locals there adhere to a certain historic ethnic and racial profile? Like, I don’t want to visit Shanghai and see a bunch of Mexicans, Indians and Britons. Kind of ruins the experience.


Oh yeah, we need to build walls and discourage people from immigrating to find a better life. It's more important that tourists in Bermuda shorts with cameras don't have their vacations "ruined".

I’m glad we’re on the same channel.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby jimbo_xix » 22 August 2019, 21:32

poolerboy0077 wrote:
jimbo_xix wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:On the topic of immigration again, am I alone in thinking that part of the magic of traveling to different countries is expecting that the majority of the locals there adhere to a certain historic ethnic and racial profile? Like, I don’t want to visit Shanghai and see a bunch of Mexicans, Indians and Britons. Kind of ruins the experience.


Oh yeah, we need to build walls and discourage people from immigrating to find a better life. It's more important that tourists in Bermuda shorts with cameras don't have their vacations "ruined".

I’m glad we’re on the same channel.


Some of you guys here give new meaning to the term "airheaded queen". :lol:
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Sullivan » 22 August 2019, 21:52

rogonandi wrote:Personally I think the only reason Trump got in was because people didn’t like the idea of Clinton as the alternative. Trump may be the first US president elected out of spite.

How quickly we forget the election of 1824.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby rogonandi » 22 August 2019, 22:27

Sullivan wrote:
rogonandi wrote:Personally I think the only reason Trump got in was because people didn’t like the idea of Clinton as the alternative. Trump may be the first US president elected out of spite.

How quickly we forget the election of 1824.

Yeah, those 195 years just flew by. :lol:
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Derek » 22 August 2019, 23:16

Jzone wrote:The willingness of the RNC to support Trump was a damning indictment of their entire being. How will you feel when the current administration's policies, rhetoric, and communication style become the status quo?

Relieved? We can stop pretending that "civility" matters to anyone. The RNC was damned long before Trump, who is, at least, an honest avatar of what it actually represents.

rogonandi wrote:It’s going to take multiple presidents, not just the next one. Even a blah, caretaker president currently without a clear plan can be reasoned with by his political party.

Oh, yeah. Like when Obama passed a compromise-based, market-based solution to healthcare, and Republicans didn't spend 8 years screaming that it was death camp socialism or gut it immediately after an election they shouldn't have had a chance of winning. It would have been a disaster if he had pushed harder and risked alienating moderate republicans, who as we all know are just waiting with bated breath for an excuse to vote blue again.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby rogonandi » 23 August 2019, 00:12

^ Oh sorry, allow me to clarify. It’ll take several Democrat presidents to fix the problems I was talking about. :lol:

Until then, the government of the USA is just going to spend all its time picking up sand from one field, dumping it in another, and then moving that sand back into the first field because of a reason that’s surely a good one for someone somewhere.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Derek » 23 August 2019, 00:29

That... is the exact same political strategy that resulted in 2016. Bore and chide people into voting democrat because at least they're not republicans. How the hell do people still expect that to work? It already failed! It was three years ago!! Did everyone already forget? The way the democrats stood for nothing and said nothing and got humiliated? What does it take to get people to admit that the party's mainstream has no ideology and no values and no connection to actual politics and that's why it cant accomplish anything? I swear I'm losing my goddamn mind.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Brenden » 23 August 2019, 05:46

rogonandi wrote:
Brenden wrote:
rogonandi wrote:
Derek wrote:I wasn't aware the democratic party had ideals.

They have them. They just need to be given the chance to show them.

The Democratic Party had control of the Presidency and both chambers of Congress between 20 January 2009 and 3 January 2011.

And if they had control for longer, they’d be able to clean up the rest of the debt messes left behind by the republicans but I can clearly see many folks scream “you’re not fixing things fast enough!!!!!!111one” and things switch back to republican to indulge in tax relief that ends up re-swamping the country in debt. :facepalm2:

It's precisely because Obama and the Democratic Party didn't do much and used up political capital on skim-milk legislation that they lost the House in 2010.

Congresses only ever have 2 years. Savvy politicians know this and use their short time well. Compare and contrast the 111th Congress with the 73rd. Both Congresses started during a recession/depression, with a continuing Democratic majority and Democratic President elected with a strong mandate. The latter achieved a legendary amount (even just in its first 100 days), and Democrats were subsequently re-elected to a supermajority.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Jzone » 26 August 2019, 00:33

Derek wrote:The way the democrats stood for nothing and said nothing and got humiliated? What does it take to get people to admit that the party's mainstream has no ideology and no values and no connection to actual politics and that's why it cant accomplish anything? I swear I'm losing my goddamn mind.

Enjoy losing what little is left of your mind. It is far better to stand for nothing, say nothing, and accomplish nothing — rather than continue to do the damage that Trump has done with the blessing of the RNC and support of a minority of the American public.

Both parties' mainstream are divorced from reality and the experience of the public. They serve only the interests of the party and keeping the party in power — at the expense of the rest of us.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Derek » 26 August 2019, 00:55

Do you think 2016 happened in an alternative universe? That it had nothing to do with the politics already in place? The democrats paved the way for this. They couldn't muster a response to Trump, literally the dumbest guy ever to run for the office. What do you think will happen if they win it back in time for a recession, only to rehash Obama's administration but less charismatic? What reason to you have to believe that things won't get much, much worse in the years that follow?

Nothing is not a defense against reactionary politics, it's the goddamn cause. The only defense is to provide an alternative, and there is a moral impetus to try.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby bluesunstorm » 26 August 2019, 02:07

A little bit dramatic, but I see a repeat of 2016. Something being ignored is that a large portion of Democrats like more centrist politicians. Do all the millions more who voted for Clinton in the primary and probably will choose Biden just not matter? And, let's not pretend that the centrism has been unpopular on a national scale. Trump just got very lucky in a few states, despite losing by millions more votes.

I really don't see Trump winning again though. He's certainly not gaining supporters, and presidents rarely increase their vote share the second time around.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Jzone » 26 August 2019, 02:32

Derek wrote:Nothing is not a defense against reactionary politics, it's the goddamn cause. The only defense is to provide an alternative, and there is a moral impetus to try.

Bullshit. Reactionary politics is the cause. Swing that fucking political pendulum back and forth. Have fun providing an alternative, then the "other side" will do the same. The bankers, ceo's, and politicians will profit either way; while the rest of us suffer.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Derek » 26 August 2019, 03:22

I don't understand how anyone can be so ahistorical. Not even historical - this all happened in the past few years! Did you not notice the resurgence of right-wing ideology, which sprang up from... basically nothing? Do you really think it's the stroke of the "pendulum" bouncing back from the side of liberal extremists who bailed out Wall Street and begged insurance companies to let them pass legislation? What an utterly blinkered perspective. These assholes have been here the whole time. Politics is opportunism, and in this case the opportunity was a complete lack of ideological opposition. How the hell do you complain about "bankers, ceo's, and politicians" and condemn the impetus to seek an alternative in the same breath?

bluesunstorm wrote:Do all the millions more who voted for Clinton in the primary and probably will choose Biden just not matter? And, let's not pretend that the centrism has been unpopular on a national scale.

Centrism is extremely unpopular, and more than that, it has no mandate and no viable long-term political strategy. Those millions more who voted for Clinton in the primary absolutely do not matter.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Jzone » 26 August 2019, 03:50

Derek wrote:Centrism is extremely unpopular, and more than that, it has no mandate and no viable long-term political strategy. Those millions more who voted for Clinton in the primary absolutely do not matter.

Exactly. You are falling for the same old shit. Centrism doesn't matter. Choose your ridiculous extreme and vote for its grotesque figurehead thrust into the election.
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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postby Derek » 26 August 2019, 03:58

What?
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