Climate crisis

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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 22 June 2019, 16:59

SteveIsNotMe wrote:If such catastrophe were to happen within the next 100 years


Global average temperatures are on course to rise 3-4 degrees C by 2100, but it doesn't mean that by 2100 we will immediately jump to a Pliocene like world and the catastrophes I've described earlier. They will take quite a long time to play out (I don't know how long), but they eventually will and as they do play out they will likely lead to even greater warming.

But in the meantime the climate change we experience now and up to 2100 will be difficult enough to deal with, eventually causing millions of people to flee from areas that are too hot to live in and of drought and food insecurity. Its going to and probably already is causing global political, social and economic turmoil that is and will be very difficult for governments to deal with, and it looks like the way they have chosen to 'deal' with it is with brutality in the form of walls, concentration camps and deportations. The other issue here (the main issue really) is that capitalism can't go on forever and is already undermining the ecology it and we rely on thus causing all these issues.

So as for the collapse of human civilisation. I think civilisation as we know it will collapse into a brutal fascist world (and then we will be on our way to eventual extinction) or we overthrow all the power structures and rebuild society on a more democratic, socialist and local scale.
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby Karbon » 25 July 2019, 18:23

A much more interesting question is what can the average person do to slow down climate change. Is trying to limit your own carbon footprint effective? Should I write to my representative to urge them to do something abount climate change? and what? I live in a small eastern-european country (you've never heard of it, i lived in it before it was cool) and there are no political parties that have climate change on the agenda. Even if somehow we would be able to convince politicianss to do something, Romania isn't really a heavy polluter compared to China, US and western Europe
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby Sullivan » 26 July 2019, 18:50

Karbon wrote:A much more interesting question is what can the average person do to slow down climate change. Is trying to limit your own carbon footprint effective? Should I write to my representative to urge them to do something abount climate change? and what? I live in a small eastern-european country (you've never heard of it, i lived in it before it was cool) and there are no political parties that have climate change on the agenda. Even if somehow we would be able to convince politicianss to do something, Romania isn't really a heavy polluter compared to China, US and western Europe


That question, to me, is just evidence of how completely fucked we are. Taking a neoliberal tack and asking what the individual, as consumer and as citizen of a representative government, can do to change things is perilously inadequate.

Systemic issues have bred the present crisis, and nothing short of massive changes to how we in wealthy nations order our economic, political, and social systems will allow us to reverse course.

As bad as things currently are, I think they'll need to get worse (and worse especially for privileged people still insulated from the present fallout of the climate crisis) before any kind of sufficient systemic changes arise to challenge the status quo. The question becomes whether by then, regardless of whatever changes may occur, it will be too late.
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 26 July 2019, 21:52

Sullivan wrote:
Karbon wrote:A much more interesting question is what can the average person do to slow down climate change. Is trying to limit your own carbon footprint effective? Should I write to my representative to urge them to do something abount climate change? and what? I live in a small eastern-european country (you've never heard of it, i lived in it before it was cool) and there are no political parties that have climate change on the agenda. Even if somehow we would be able to convince politicianss to do something, Romania isn't really a heavy polluter compared to China, US and western Europe


That question, to me, is just evidence of how completely fucked we are. Taking a neoliberal tack and asking what the individual, as consumer and as citizen of a representative government, can do to change things is perilously inadequate.

Systemic issues have bred the present crisis, and nothing short of massive changes to how we in wealthy nations order our economic, political, and social systems will allow us to reverse course.

As bad as things currently are, I think they'll need to get worse (and worse especially for privileged people still insulated from the present fallout of the climate crisis) before any kind of sufficient systemic changes arise to challenge the status quo. The question becomes whether by then, regardless of whatever changes may occur, it will be too late.

A friend of mine’s gf once said in regards to being more conscientious about our polluting footprints said, “Fuck the environment.” People like this still exist in the world believe it or not.
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 28 July 2019, 10:21

Karbon wrote:Even if somehow we would be able to convince politicians to do something...


Unless you have a lot of money and not just money really but capital as in assets such as you owning several big businesses and employing lots of labour then even the best of politicians do not care about you.

They can not care about you, because they are in service to capital, because it is capital that funds their election campaigns, it is capital that owns the media and its capital that can prevent reform by pulling capital out of a country whose government looks too radical.

Even left wing politicians and parties still have to answer to this for their own survival, and even the best of politicians with the most progressive of views can become corrupted, because as a politician they mix with a different class of people from you and me, earn massive paychecks and are entitled to all sorts of benefits.

Simply put you can not trust that a politician or a political party will put its career on the line to implement meaningful systemic change to address climate change, because nothing short of the abolition of capitalism would do that, and the system has many levers of power that will prevent something like that from ever occurring through parliaments.
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby Iamjava » 28 July 2019, 18:58

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Last edited by Iamjava on 7 August 2019, 11:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby GaySpacePirateKing » 28 July 2019, 23:22

Iamjava wrote:Politicians also invest in green. The wonderful part of Congress: they can insider trade.


Yet despite all the politicians investing in renewable energy (their not) and despite the decades of negotiations and climate conferences (which amounted to nothing) greenhouse gas concentrations continue to go up.

http://isj.org.uk/dirty-energy-capitalism/
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby PopTart » 29 July 2019, 06:28

poolerboy0077 wrote:
Sullivan wrote:
Karbon wrote:A much more interesting question is what can the average person do to slow down climate change. Is trying to limit your own carbon footprint effective? Should I write to my representative to urge them to do something abount climate change? and what? I live in a small eastern-european country (you've never heard of it, i lived in it before it was cool) and there are no political parties that have climate change on the agenda. Even if somehow we would be able to convince politicianss to do something, Romania isn't really a heavy polluter compared to China, US and western Europe


That question, to me, is just evidence of how completely fucked we are. Taking a neoliberal tack and asking what the individual, as consumer and as citizen of a representative government, can do to change things is perilously inadequate.

Systemic issues have bred the present crisis, and nothing short of massive changes to how we in wealthy nations order our economic, political, and social systems will allow us to reverse course.

As bad as things currently are, I think they'll need to get worse (and worse especially for privileged people still insulated from the present fallout of the climate crisis) before any kind of sufficient systemic changes arise to challenge the status quo. The question becomes whether by then, regardless of whatever changes may occur, it will be too late.

A friend of mine’s gf once said in regards to being more conscientious about our polluting footprints said, “Fuck the environment.” People like this still exist in the world believe it or not.

Such a blaisey attitude could be indicative of someone, who simply feels overwhelmed by the issue, although I admit, your friend, with her opinion, sounds more generally dismissive of the issue being and issue to begin with.

It wasn't long ago that I was working in catering and a woman there was one of the first, ardent climate change deniers I've ever met. I honestly thought they didn't exist here.

She had such a well organised and thought out series of arguements, for why climate change was a hoax. We discussed the subject several times and her explanations ranged from special interest groups wanting to appropriate public funding for themselves to more rationalised explanations. The fact she was so certain, when I shared my own views and quoted sources for studies regarding the climate cycle and human impact upon it, she smiled knowingly and countered with something of her own... I got the distinct impression she desperately wanted to be right, she was the worrying type in most other things. This was something she couldn't and wouldn't let herself believe was a genuine concern.

I think that was the first time I really understood the challenge that humanity faces when it comes to climate change. Not with the change itself, but with our societies, be it individuals or collections of individuals (corps, countries etc) not wanting to see the wood for the trees, while I do think the vast majority of people know and understand climate change to be true. There are just a few too many who doubt or willfuly choose not to believe, either for their own blind obsession with their goals, like Jzone mentioned or because they are afraid of having to face upto it.

I honestly don't know if it will ever be confronted in time in a meaningful way. I hope so, because while I hope not ot be around to witness the worst shifts likely to come, I also hate the idea of all the progress our species has made, going backwards.

Worse yet, the Earth becoming uninhabitable. :runaway:
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Re: Climate crisis

Unread postby NvM » 14 August 2019, 15:44

i do not have a degree in climatology but not willing to bet the ranch temperatures are slowly creeping up.
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