Political debate-calling out mxguy01

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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 9 April 2018, 05:39

Let me tell ya something about these illegals. They only come here to try and turn out almost aborted fetuses into liberal Muslim atheist vegans with no gun rights. Wake up sheeple!
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 9 April 2018, 15:06

So flipping off the wall.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 9 April 2018, 19:03

Marmaduke wrote:The wage gap can be demonstrated with facts, that’s generally not true of myths.

Except that the facts are not what people think they are.

A recent economic study [PDF] of the gender pay disparity of Uber drivers, which provides a huge and comprehensive dataset to analyse, found that the 7% disparity is pretty much entirely down to individuals' choices and differences in behaviour.

The feminist narrative that the institutional "Patriarchy" compensates them less for the same work is specious by design.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Marmaduke » 9 April 2018, 20:40

Brenden wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:The wage gap can be demonstrated with facts, that’s generally not true of myths.

Except that the facts are not what people think they are.

A recent economic study [PDF] of the gender pay disparity of Uber drivers, which provides a huge and comprehensive dataset to analyse, found that the 7% disparity is pretty much entirely down to individuals' choices and differences in behaviour.

The feminist narrative that the institutional "Patriarchy" compensates them less for the same work is specious by design.

Is Uber driving not a dreadful example to use? It’s model for drivers doesn’t include promotion prospects, selective hiring practices, gradations in earnings within a banding system, anything on which they could be accused of even offering different conditions to any driver working within the same area as another. It’s just a flat rate earning system for everyone that drives for them. Uber doesn’t care about the humanity of its drivers, much less their gender, I don’t think that necessarily makes them a champion for equality. I would imagine the report may reach differing conclusions if it looked at the wage comparisons of its corporate staff.

Edit: in fact, having read some of that report, it’s not even looking to make a conclusion around gender pay gaps as much as it’s looking to prove that Uber driving and the rest of the gig economy isn’t impacted by gender. I wouldn’t have thought you’d have used a report that basically says “Uber driving just makes you a number on their wage slave roster, they don’t give a fuck about you on any level whatsoever”, you of all people.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 9 April 2018, 23:42

Marmaduke wrote:
Brenden wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:The wage gap can be demonstrated with facts, that’s generally not true of myths.

Except that the facts are not what people think they are.

A recent economic study [PDF] of the gender pay disparity of Uber drivers, which provides a huge and comprehensive dataset to analyse, found that the 7% disparity is pretty much entirely down to individuals' choices and differences in behaviour.

The feminist narrative that the institutional "Patriarchy" compensates them less for the same work is specious by design.

Is Uber driving not a dreadful example to use? It’s model for drivers doesn’t include promotion prospects, selective hiring practices, gradations in earnings within a banding system, anything on which they could be accused of even offering different conditions to any driver working within the same area as another. It’s just a flat rate earning system for everyone that drives for them. Uber doesn’t care about the humanity of its drivers, much less their gender, I don’t think that necessarily makes them a champion for equality.

I would imagine the report may reach differing conclusions if it looked at the wage comparisons of its corporate staff.

Edit: in fact, having read some of that report, it’s not even looking to make a conclusion around gender pay gaps as much as it’s looking to prove that Uber driving and the rest of the gig economy isn’t impacted by gender. I wouldn’t have thought you’d have used a report that basically says “Uber driving just makes you a number on their wage slave roster, they don’t give a fuck about you on any level whatsoever”, you of all people.

I don't care about what the study's main focus is. My point is that even in an almost ideally equal situation, women earn 7% less, largely of their own accord.

Did you look at the first link? Because my issue with all this nonsense is that feminists are constantly whipping themselves up into a furor over the ~20% figure, making out as if they're being outright stolen from, and use it to justify un-egalitarian policies.

Back in 2009 there was a comprehensive meta-analysis performed for the US Department of Labor. From its forward, written by the department:
There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7. 1 percent. These variables include:

A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work.

A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care. Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of children in the home.

Women, especially working mothers, tend to value “family friendly” workplace policies more than men. Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.

Research also suggests that differences not incorporated into the model due to data limitations may account for part of the remaining gap. Specifically, CONSAD’s model and much of the literature, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics Highlights of Women s Earnings, focus on wages rather than total compensation. Research indicates that women may value non-wage benefits more than men do, and as a result prefer to take a greater portion of their compensation in the form of health insurance and other fringe benefits.

In principle, more of the raw wage gap could be explained by including some additional variables within a single comprehensive analysis that considers all of the factors simultaneously; however, such an analysis is not feasible to conduct with available data bases. Factors, such as work experience and job tenure, require data that describe the behavior of individual workers over extended time periods. The longitudinal data bases that contain such information include too few workers, however, to support adequate analysis of factors like occupation and industry. Cross-sectional data bases that include enough workers to enable analysis of factors like occupation and industry do not collect data on individual workers over long enough periods to support adequate analysis of factors like work experience and job tenure.

Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.



You know where's there's an actual massive gaping gender disparity? Workplace deaths, 9 in 10 of which are men. Or what about the homelessness gap? 3 in 4.

The median woman has a cushier life than the median man, and feminists only seem to care about equalising the prestigious jobs. Where're the feminists calling for equality among sanitation workers?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 01:59

Can't agree with the above more. Especially the last couple comments.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby PopTart » 10 April 2018, 10:43

Ahh Americans and their guns! I reserve any serious opinion on gun rights in America as it has nowt to do with me, but for consideration, I feel I would be able to hold my government to account and defend against the usurpation of power and liberty, without having automatic rifles & other weapons. I also like knowing that it's extremely unlikely I'll get mowed down in a hail of bullets any time I leave the house.

We don't all own guns and the worst you could say about our government is they have a tendency towards ineptitude, rather than tyranny.

I can't stand neo-feminism, which is more about punitive action for percieved abuses, than it is about real equality and like Marty, I feel positive discrimination is still discrimination, it contributes towards the conflict. For someone to be positively discriminated towards, someone else must be negatively discriminated, it's a zero sum game, which doesn't endear the bearer of negative discrimination, to the plight or position of those being positively discriminated towards. Not helpful.

Extremism on any side is folly.

I have no opinion on Trump at all, he doesn't interest me, the things he says are irrelevent, I'm neither maddened by his vulgarity or won over by his rhetoric. I do wonder how he has avoided institutionalisation as I feel he isn't playing with a full deck of cards, but meh, who is these days?

Communism is amazing... on paper, in practice, it requires that people, well, not behave like people do. In an ideal world, where people were the best version of ourselves, who always chose to do what was right in the moment and to think about others atleast as much as ourselves, it might be workable, but, alas, that isn't the world we live in. Fascism has it's benefits, wouldn't want to live under one though. I like moderate socialism, but I'm centrist and feel it should be moderate and not all encompassing.

I'm pro-choice, I'm pretty sure that most countries have alimit on how late one can abort a child, I don't think it's legal in most countries to abort a child in the third trimester, here in the UK, I think it's 20 weeks? Maybe 24? I think that is reasonable and people should mind their own business on the matter. I doubt any woman regards an abortion as something to be undertaken "on a whim"

Homosexuality I suspect is primarily biological, I don't think it's choice, though perhaps, conditioning can be used to repress sexual desires and expression, gay or straight. Doesn't make one not gay, it makes one a repressed homo, or flip for the straight version.

Support gay marriage, I'm not religious so couldn't give a rats ass about church recognised or officiated ceremonies. I'm more interested in the legal endorsement of rights and entitlements and the public commitment to a potential partner. State wedding is fine by me. Kinda feel sorry for religous types who want a faith based marriage, but honestly, most oganised faiths aren't exactly encouraging about homosexuality, so feel it's to be expected. Maybe they should establish their own branches of the faith, that do recognise the legitamacy of gay marriage.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 14:39

I have no opinion on Trump at all, he doesn't interest me, the things he says are irrelevent, I'm neither maddened by his vulgarity or won over by his rhetoric. I do wonder how he has avoided institutionalisation as I feel he isn't playing with a full deck of cards, but meh, who is these days?


My hope, was that people would realize what you state about him and that he would simply be ignored and become irrelevant.

Hum, current issue with China and dispute about tariffs is going to hurt a lot of people. So much for the hope that he would be irrelevant.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 14:43

While I believe in the amendment standing as is that does not imply that I don't want to see reasonable controls put on it. Background checks, gun safety course, waiting period, criminal record = no gun for you, etc. And as you point out, if you can make a rather high power explosive device from manure, you don't need guns to cause violence. Although I grant the evidence is guns contribute (a lot) to violence.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 10 April 2018, 14:50

mxguy01 wrote:While I believe in the amendment standing as is that does not imply that I don't want to see reasonable controls put on it.

There were already controls put on it, and written right into it. It was only in the last few decades that the Supreme Court shifted its interpretation to an individual right with very little regulation.

mxguy01 wrote:Although I grant the evidence is guns contribute (a lot) to violence.

They make violence easier to commit and exponentially more deadly. There's a huge psychological difference between brandishing a knife within a few feet of someone and shoving it into their flesh and standing up to many yards away and applying a little bit of pressure to a trigger. A knife-wielding person is easier to subdue before too much damage is done, and to subdue without injury to the subduer (I've seen video of people handling someone with a knife by using a chair to pin them against a wall, being out of their arm's reach).
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 15:01

poolerboy0077 wrote:Those are all kind of lame. I think you should get him to expound on his view of meritocracy. He seems to give the impression that he views the poor as being the embodiment of morally failing attitudes and values whereas the well-off are so primarily due to hard work. It’s a popular narrative among the NASCAR crowd.


In reference to me. Well, rather than make an implication ("I think you should get him to expound on his view of meritocracy"), why not rather state what you think. But I address it anyways. I really don't consider myself or things I've done as very much more than meritocracy. I've muddled my way is about it. I have been rather lucky; going so many years never a day without a job is stupid lucky. I've watch friends get annihilated by down turns in the economy and a sequence of unanticipated events (bought home at high, forced to sell at low). I don't impose my choices upon others. At the same time, I'll say you sleep in the bed you make. Funny though because I rarely make my bed but rather just leave it as is for the most part.

Sorry if it offends you that my view is that if you more, you are better off helping yourself rather than counting on help from others. This is my view. My way though life. You are free to choose your way and I don't impose upon that.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 15:09

an individual right
<- and that part I support
with very little regulation
<- the problem

They make violence easier to commit and exponentially more deadly.

I'd bet I could kill just as easy if not easier with a compound bow. Hence the conclusion, no one should be permitted to own compound bows. Hell, cars are weapons too, and damn good ones if you ask me. Well, no cars for anyone...

Google "home made guns".
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 15:12

BTW, I don't own any guns. I did as a kid when I "hunted". Since I don't hunt nor target shoot, I don't own any guns because I view them as a liability. If I did, I would also have a safe to keep them locked in.

Figured I'd add this before PB starts assuming I carry...
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 10 April 2018, 15:28

mxguy01 wrote:
They make violence easier to commit and exponentially more deadly.

I'd bet I could kill just as easy if not easier with a compound bow.

The rate of fire of a compound bow or crossbow is an order of magnitude slower than a semi-automatic gun.

So, yet again, you completely miss the forrest for the trees — the few tiny little anecdote trees that your mushy brain can comprehend.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 15:35

your mushy brain can comprehend.


Nice! Proud of yourself? Make you fell better? I have an opinion differing from you and that justifies such comments? Honestly, I find that childish level of response from you disheartening.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby PopTart » 10 April 2018, 15:37

I think your both showing off for the soldier boy :lol:
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 10 April 2018, 15:52

mxguy01 wrote:
your mushy brain can comprehend.

Nice! Proud of yourself? Make you fell better? I have an opinion differing from you and that justifies such comments? Honestly, I find that childish level of response from you disheartening.

I find your incapability to take in facts and use of anecdote as justification for those opinions sickening. (Yes, "I'd bet I could kill just as easy if not easier with a compound bow" is anecdote — note the two Is and the bet in the statement.)
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 16:14

Brenden wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:
your mushy brain can comprehend.

Nice! Proud of yourself? Make you fell better? I have an opinion differing from you and that justifies such comments? Honestly, I find that childish level of response from you disheartening.

I find your incapability to take in facts and use of anecdote as justification for those opinions sickening. (Yes, "I'd bet I could kill just as easy if not easier with a compound bow" is anecdote — note the two Is and the bet in the statement.)


Really and your knowledge of them is what?

A compound bow is a rather potent weapon if used for that. Has the advantage of being silent. Hell, If I wanted to do a mass killing I wouldn't choose either gun nor bow. Yes, I've shot both bow and gun. I'd almost prefer bow in ways. You miss the point. You can't eliminate every danger by eliminating rights. I've said before, I'm entirely in favor of reasonable gun controls.

Another argument along the line of removing rights and privileges (yes I consider gun ownership both a right and privilege, just that not all can be trusted with that), is the matter of electronic ease dropping in the name of providing more safety for all. Since clearly if the government were to intercept all calls and analyze them for dangers, we would all be safer (from say terrorism). So therefore we should totally give up our right to privacy?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 10 April 2018, 16:16

note the two Is and the bet in the statement.)

I'll note it's importance wrt to subject at hand. But hey, if pointing out my shitty grammar and typing makes you happy, well that is sad at best. I'll add, I don't get it. This does not fit the impression I had of you.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 10 April 2018, 16:36

mxguy01 wrote:
note the two Is and the bet in the statement.)

I'll note it's importance wrt to subject at hand. But hey, if pointing out my shitty grammar and typing makes you happy, well that is sad at best. I'll add, I don't get it. This does not fit the impression I had of you.

Wow, you're thick. I'm not pointing out grammar. I'm pointing out keywords that indicate whether something's an anecdote.
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