Political debate-calling out mxguy01

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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 11 April 2018, 05:34

mxguy01 wrote:So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?

I have a hard time imagining someone saying "Gee whiz, I sure would like to earn some more money, but if I do that I'll only be able to keep 65% of it instead of 67%! Guess I'll just stay in and fill out these unemployment forms instead."

Though, to be totally honest, I think the entire argument is beside the point. Both nominal and effective tax rates have been higher in the past than they are now. They've also been lower, more progressive, and less progressive. No regression analysis will find a consistent relationship between these rates and growth metrics. Yet, the argument over whether they're too high keeps more or less the exact same same tempo - because it's an emotional argument, not a scientific one.

If you think it's unfair to penalize success, that's fine. If you really want to get into it, all taxation is morally unjustified theft, and there are any number of counter-arguments which tickle the same self-righteous pleasure button. In the meantime, there's a budget and a national debt to take care of.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 11 April 2018, 06:25

rogonandi wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?


It's not like the increased taxes will cause them to lose their car, their home and etc unless they're really dodging their taxes and end up getting audited. Even with increased taxes, they still not only get a better standard of living but they get the glorious beautiful pride of being better than those in tax brackets below them! :D


No it makes them worried they'll loose their job, won't be able to support the kids/family, make the mortgage/rent payment ... Don't assume it a life totally without worries. More an additive to your comment not a counter.

Oh, any such flat tax needs to have a living wage threshold.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby rogonandi » 11 April 2018, 06:27

mxguy01 wrote:No it makes them worried they'll loose their job, won't be able to support the kids/family, make the mortgage/rent payment ... Don't assume it a life totally without worries. More an additive to your comment not a counter.


How does having to pay more taxes put their job in jeopardy?

But in any case, none of the problems you've listed are anything the poor don't have worse.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 11 April 2018, 06:35

Derek wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?

I have a hard time imagining someone saying "Gee whiz, I sure would like to earn some more money, but if I do that I'll only be able to keep 65% of it instead of 67%! Guess I'll just stay in and fill out these unemployment forms instead."

Though, to be totally honest, I think the entire argument is beside the point. Both nominal and effective tax rates have been higher in the past than they are now. They've also been lower, more progressive, and less progressive. No regression analysis will find a consistent relationship between these rates and growth metrics. Yet, the argument over whether they're too high keeps more or less the exact same same tempo - because it's an emotional argument, not a scientific one.

If you think it's unfair to penalize success, that's fine. If you really want to get into it, all taxation is morally unjustified theft, and there are any number of counter-arguments which tickle the same self-righteous pleasure button. In the meantime, there's a budget and a national debt to take care of.


First paragraph is off. Nowhere is it about a choice between unemployment and 55% tax. The rest I agree with. Certainly wish we would choose to effectively deal with the issue in your last sentence.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 11 April 2018, 17:27

mxguy01 wrote:First paragraph is off. Nowhere is it about a choice between unemployment and 55% tax.

You sure don't have a gift for figurative expression.

The rest I agree with. Certainly wish we would choose to effectively deal with the issue in your last sentence.

You couldn't possibly agree with it if you're still strongly in favor of a flat tax.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 13 April 2018, 19:27

mxguy01 wrote:There are too many (honestly one is too many so yes maybe a small percentage) who feel they have a god given right to exist but not really contribute to that existence.

No one chose to exist. The choice is made for us, and it's a selfish choice by people trying to give their own existence meaning — a meaning so pitiful and small it's the same for every living thing down to bacteria and even viruses.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Eryx » 14 April 2018, 04:53

People change, opinions change, most of them don't really matter. Most of what we believe inside matters only to our votes and our relationships. Friendship can still survive to that and we evolve with our thoughts, gathering more and more arguments, as time passes. The habit of ostracizing people because they don't feel the same way we do about things has become a vice with social networks like Facebook. I don't think it's healthy. I enjoy mxguy01's comments and contributions, not even once has he rubbed me the wrong way except for these excerpts from his introduction, which aren't relevant anymore because he isn't the same person he was when he joined, regardless of whether he changed his opinions because of this place or not (and he probably didn't, there are many other aspects of his life happening concurrently). This kind of witch-hunt is unproductive.

Sorry, I've been feeling a bit more philosophical lately without Facebook, and it's doing me wonders, it's also allowing me to be able to converse and understand people more broadly. It might be a trip, but I advise it.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby PopTart » 14 April 2018, 06:52

Eryx wrote:The habit of ostracizing people because they don't feel the same way we do about things has become a vice with social networks like Facebook. I don't think it's healthy.

Agreed.

As to mxguy, I love people for who they are, not who I want them to be. He hasn't been around lately, hopefully, he'll be coming back and doesn't feel unwelcome here.

Brenden, you do enjoy a combative debate, that said, not everyone else does (even if the say they do!) why don't you boys play nice?

Wouldn't it be great if we settled disputes like Bonobos! I'd totally be down for that, infact, I might even go out of my way to have a few more conflicts, just for the "resolution"
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby GearFetTwinkRomance » 14 April 2018, 09:49

PopTart wrote:As to mxguy, I love people for who they are, not who I want them to be. He hasn't been around lately, hopefully, he'll be coming back and doesn't feel unwelcome here.


I would very much miss him. I actually think he's not that a thin-skin about debates so something would scare him off. He might just be out riding, wakeboarding or having fun a time with his guy. The sun must be calling people outside at his place, too.

PopTart wrote:Wouldn't it be great if we settled disputes like Bonobos! I'd totally be down for that, infact, I might even go out of my way to have a few more conflicts, just for the "resolution"


Uhm ... well... only if everyone would look like Justin Bieber and Prince Harry. :D To add a selection of everone's favourite cuties.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Derek » 14 April 2018, 09:53

GearFetTwinkRomance wrote:Uhm ... well... only if everyone would look like Justin Bieber and Prince Harry. :D To add a selection of everone's favourite cuties.

I'd say speak for yourself, but to be honest I'd prefer if this hadn't been spoken at all.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby GearFetTwinkRomance » 14 April 2018, 10:32

Derek wrote:
GearFetTwinkRomance wrote:Uhm ... well... only if everyone would look like Justin Bieber and Prince Harry. :D To add a selection of everone's favourite cuties.

I'd say speak for yourself, but to be honest I'd prefer if this hadn't been spoken at all.


Hmm, maybe you would explain the problem you've encountered, might shed some light.

In case it's just the difference of mindset. Some people are not here to please everyone's expectations.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby PopTart » 14 April 2018, 11:06

^^ :lol: funny :lol: ^^
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby RJD » 17 April 2018, 20:53

rogonandi wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:No it makes them worried they'll loose their job, won't be able to support the kids/family, make the mortgage/rent payment ... Don't assume it a life totally without worries. More an additive to your comment not a counter.


How does having to pay more taxes put their job in jeopardy?

But in any case, none of the problems you've listed are anything the poor don't have worse.


So, for my position we have gone down in headcount by 80% in 5 years. There is a TSR stack rank that is used; I've seen solid performers let go while people with no business doing what they do stay. I've rejected a raise or two to keep my income middle of the pack, and deliberately keep my team lean so that we are rarely even considered. Now, that's more of an issue of the increase itself and not taxes; but I've also been in the position where a raise I just accepted caused me to move brackets and I suddenly make less.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby 10thmtnarty » 20 April 2018, 17:32

PopTart wrote:We don't all own guns and the worst you could say about our government is they have a tendency towards ineptitude, rather than tyranny.


All I'm hearing out of britain recently is drastic overreaches of government, specificly arrests dealing with "hate speech" laws. Ever heard of count dankula? I believe the first and second amendment go hand in hand.

Homosexuality I suspect is primarily biological, I don't think it's choice, though perhaps, conditioning can be used to repress sexual desires and expression, gay or straight. Doesn't make one not gay, it makes one a repressed homo, or flip for the straight version.


Never said it was a choice. It definitely isn't. I meant your upbringing can affect whether or not you become gay.

Support gay marriage, I'm not religious so couldn't give a rats ass about church recognised or officiated ceremonies. I'm more interested in the legal endorsement of rights and entitlements and the public commitment to a potential partner.


I suppose I should have hashed this one out more. I think the state should stay the fuck out of marriage completely. It should be a social contract, not a legal one.

mxguy01 wrote:While I believe in the amendment standing as is that does not imply that I don't want to see reasonable controls put on it. Background checks, gun safety course, waiting period, criminal record = no gun for you, etc. And as you point out, if you can make a rather high power explosive device from manure, you don't need guns to cause violence. Although I grant the evidence is guns contribute (a lot) to violence.


Question: you ever bought a firearm? If the answer is no, go to your local gun store and ask if he'd be willing to run you through the process. The only thing not there is a gun safety course, which would cause too much overreach. Most states require a course before you're allowed to carry.

Also, are you aware that somewhere between 500k and 3m violent crimes are stopped by a defensive fireamr each year in the us? If you include firearm related suicides in the "gun deaths" category, that's still only 30k a year, and the number of crimes stopped by brandishing a firearm and never reported is unknown, probably much higher than that.

PopTart wrote:I think your both showing off for the soldier boy :lol:

:naughty: :naughty:

My own son had ADD. Sorry, another anecdotal (if you don't like them, don't read them and move along) story. Missed being diagnosed for too long. Teachers demoralized up until part way through 9th when we pulled him from the normal school system. Started in grade school and I'm convinced it had /has a negative impact on him. We got him into a program here called Venture. Essentially home schooling but the school system did the proctoring rather than the parents. He started pulling really good grades across the board. He's actually extremely smart. He hates math. And yet when he would take the standardize tests he would score ridiculously high (one time he got 100% score to which we were like WTF). Seriously, he is the nicest human being you could ever meet. But he can be annoyingly distracted. People who don't know of his ADD will often judge him badly because of that. I'm pretty convince he's going to have a tough time in the workplace. I hope for his ADD issue to be easier for him to deal with as he ages. But he also knows that is his to deal with as well. PB, If you think I don't have compassion for people who need help, don't get it, and makes their situation worse, poor or otherwise, your assumption about me can't be more horribly off. I feel strongly that there is a place in this world for everyone. No where in that feeling do I add we should crush people under the burden of poverty for my own prosperity.


Sounds alot like me, except I was homeschooled until my rebel streak kicked in in highschool, at which point i was put in the baptist school. DON'T put him on ridalin or some other shit. Positive motivation helped, the younger I was the more short term it had to be. Be consistently hard on him, the thing that frustrated me most about my folks were getting away with something for quite along time, then suddenly it wasn't allowed, then the next day they didn't care again. Any career that requires figuring out how things work would be good for him, prob; he like legos?

rogonandi wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:So your saying you don't see how tax brackets that are an increasing rate applied to you the more income you have, is a disincentive to striving to earn more income?


It's not like the increased taxes will cause them to lose their car, their home and etc unless they're really dodging their taxes and end up getting audited. Even with increased taxes, they still not only get a better standard of living but they get the glorious beautiful pride of being better than those in tax brackets below them! :D


Here's the problems. The top earning bracket starts just above a politicians wage. Why would that be, I wonder? Also, the more you tax someone who has a shitton of money, the more they're gonna find any way possible not to pay those taxes; including hiding it overseas and not spending it. You think they want to pay half their money in taxes? Taxes are entirely too high in this country. Working full time at 14/hr, I was getting 40% of my check taken out.

Wow, shit got kinda heated.

As far as you asking me to prove that trump's not *insert random namecalling here*, that's like saying prove you're not a racist. You're the accuser, it's kind of your job to put your evidence on the table.

Been real busy with my bf, and startin a new job til the factory I'm supposed to be maintenance at gets off the ground.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby rogonandi » 20 April 2018, 22:58

I'd probably be complaining about the taxes too if I wasn't just above the poverty line...but I'm poor and I've been shown due to various disabilities (and lack of proper social networking) that it's not gonna get too much better.

I do however work full-time myself and I have extra money taken out of my pay to ensure I don't suffer when I do my yearly taxes.

I'm also more willing to pay higher taxes if it means a better health and education system as well as upkeep on utilities done by the government. From what I've seen having lived in an area with a 'conservative' government those systems suffer without the beautiful elite class paying more...and privatization doesn't seem to help much, especially for the servant class I'm in.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby Brenden » 21 April 2018, 00:05

rogonandi wrote:I'd probably be complaining about the taxes too if I wasn't just above the poverty line...but I'm poor and I've been shown due to various disabilities (and lack of proper social networking) that it's not gonna get too much better.

I'm also more willing to pay higher taxes if it means a better health and education system as well as upkeep on utilities done by the government. From what I've seen having lived in an area with a 'conservative' government those systems suffer without the beautiful elite class paying more...and privatization doesn't seem to help much, especially for the servant class I'm in.

My in-laws are well above the poverty line, and they don't mind at all paying 40-50% of it (effective). Sure, they try to reduce it as much as is allowed/possible, but in the end they're fine with paying because they understand it affords them a prosperous and relatively harmonious country to live in. One in which their children received free tertiary education (as well as living-expense stipend), they they receive a basic amount of money (same as everyone else) to pay for health insurance, their relatives who've fallen on hard times are guaranteed a basic standard of dignified life without having to beg anyone, where the roads are well-maintained, etc.

rogonandi wrote:I do however work full-time myself and I have extra money taken out of my pay to ensure I don't suffer when I do my yearly taxes.

Someone who's working full time shouldn't be just above the poverty line. :shake:
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby rogonandi » 21 April 2018, 00:54

Your compassion is appreciated, Brendan. It also brings up another thing in regards to taxes. My husband has some serious health problems and thanks to the taxes there are social medicine programs here in Canada we qualify for. It would cost us about three hundred dollars extra a month for them. We would definitely be in poverty if we had to pay full for them.

EDIT: OH! Oh, I forgot about my medication. That's another 100 a month.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby lynx » 21 April 2018, 05:24

10thmtnarty wrote:From member intro
10thmtnarty wrote:
mxguy01 wrote:Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. You get dirty, and the pig likes it. Come wrestle in the mud with me!


That signature. I'm no engineer, but that definitely fits my style.

Calling you out in general discussions


Pick 1

I'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment, and believe people should be allowed to have anything not banned by the genevea convention, and some things that are-such as hollow points.

Feminism is cancer, blm and antifa are terrorists

Hate speech is covered under the first amendment.

The far left is directly responsible for the rise of the far right

I don't support gay marriage

The wage gap is a myth

I'm a trump supporter

Not sure where I stand on abortion. Still kinda hashing out my beliefs there. I don't believe it's a women's right to at the very least ruin the potential for a human life on a whim.

Trannies (idk a better term) don't belong in the military, women don't belong in combat arms (the front lines)

It's not completely genetics that make you gay, part of it is your childhood as well.


These have to be the stupidest ideas I've ever come across you paranoid crackpot. Why wouldn't you support gay marriage when you yourself are a cocksucking homo. Somebody should whack you in your empty fckin head with a baseball bat for these beliefs you have you low IQ imbecile...free speech is wasted on you morons, more preferable your tongue gets cut out of your mouth and teeth, fingernails ripped out with pliers.
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 21 April 2018, 11:01

mxguy01, what are your thoughts on anthropogenic climate change?
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Re: Political debate-calling out mxguy01

Unread postby mxguy01 » 24 April 2018, 00:26

poolerboy0077 wrote:mxguy01, what are your thoughts on anthropogenic climate change?

That it's rather amusing that when I Google it, there is an ad for motocross helmets at the top. I do love burning fossil fuels. More like I like doing something that involves burning fossil fuels. My 450 does suck down way more gas than my 250. I do love a good campfire at night when in the wilderness. I carry, a campfire permit. You?
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