Political leaning...

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Political leaning...

Unread postby Nam » 23 February 2014, 17:52

I am about to break an unwritten social rule-dot talk about politics with strangers so be warned!

Anyway, I was on the train earlier today and ended up talking to some random guy (who I would say was very sympathetic to the LGBT cause judging by all of the rainbow pins he had on his coat-later confirmed when he said that he was gay and worked for a certain LGBT charity), and the conversation turned to politics....

What amazed me was that this man said that as he was so disillusioned by political parties now, in the next election he was really considering voting UKIP, despite them openly being against gay marriage-though "supporting civil partnerships". Presumably they may be just saying that to seem a bit more correct-in the past they have said some rather derogatory things. For the non-UK residents-UKIP is a far right group with questionable political ability and ideology in my eyes His reasoning was that Labour (the left) are liars, Lib-Dems (centre) are cowards and untrustworthy and the Torys (central-right?) supported gay marriage but then openly admitted to it being a mistake in their eyes and even the mayor of London used homophobia as a tool to gain votes; and UKIP being the only party that spoke for the common man.

So that raises my question- as a LGBT person, would you vote for a political group that may hinder or reverse the progress of gay-rights? and if so, why?

Personally, I am in a mess when it comes to politics-I don't like any of them! But would I pick a party that shares similar views but at the possible expense of me not being able to have the same rights as others? I am not sure..

What do you guys think about it?
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Descuff » 23 February 2014, 18:11

There are some issues I can bypass like gun's laws and abortion but LGBT issue hit a nail with me. I can't possibly willingly support a party or candidate that would endorse or support anti-gay laws. But I won't shut them out completely. I'm willing to listen to what they have to say. If they won't do anything to add on to anti-gay laws unless the people vote for it (which they shouldn't) AND their other ideas/plans sounds good to me, I would be willing to potentially vote for the group but chances are another party will be much more favorable for me.
I wonder how many people know this is down here
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby rxxli » 23 February 2014, 18:47

Probably not to be honest. I've had voting rights for three years now and I haven't used them once. I don't ever want to hear anything about politics. It's boring and I really don't have time to listen to people argues mostly about nonsense. That may be because I don't care about they do or because nothing ever changes. We have been voting for the same politicians for as long as this country has existed. They just change office. Most of the voters are old people because politicians really don't care about the young voters that much. We probably have 10 different parties and I don't agree with any of them.

Having said that... I would probably go vote against a party that would be against LGBT rights.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Frigid » 23 February 2014, 18:55

I'm currently apathetic to our political system and the politicians. None of them are trustworthy. And so I refuse to vote.

Did you read the UKIP policy? Aside from refusing to share the noun, the only legal concern they raised was for the rights of the churches and faiths to be able to reject marrying a same-sex couple - which I agree with. However, as it turns out the Act will actually give institutes more protection than they had before. I don't think UKIP intends to hinder or reverse gay rights.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Nam » 23 February 2014, 19:26

True, they all cant be trusted-the medi has not even had to fill it much either..

I have read the policy and did also see the same stuff as yourself, however, judging by what members of the party have said, the reasoning they gave does seem a bit like lip-service and basically a politically correct way of hiding their true views; for example, one of the member blamed the floods on gay marriage, others have said that there is a very strong link between paedophilia and homosexuality, that homosexuality is not natural or normal, that Russia is right with their recently introduced laws and in the last election they sent out leaflets that took the mick out of bisexuals as well as putting down gay adoption... to me that could at least hinder gay rights, but thats just my opinion I guess
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Frigid » 23 February 2014, 19:57

There have been many more dangerous views expressed by the current big parties than the combined ramblings of former UKIP extremists. I say former because they were given the shaft. However, I can understand the concern.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Josh » 24 February 2014, 02:35

Voting for any party comes with a variety of pros and cons, it all boils down to choosing the lesser of two, three, four or more evils as far as I'm concerned.

Until the previous general election I held the opinion that anyone who didn't vote didn't deserve the right to complain. But my opinions on that became much more clouded with the coalition, and my lack of confidence in any of the parties on the ballot paper has meant that even I find myself unsure of my stance. Though I know for the life of me I would never EVER vote for the Conservatives, it would feel wrong to put a cross besides any of the alternatives now.

If there was a 'None of the Above' option then I would absolutely go for that. Abstaining from voting is always going to be dismissed as voter apathy particularly amongst the youth demographic. But a NOTA option shows a vote of no confidence and is making a strong statement if other people decide to go for it as well. In a time where the Liberal Democrats have lost tonnes of credibility leaving us with what feels like a glorified two-party system with the Tories and Labour in the running, I'm all for including and publicising a NOTA option. It might encourage more people to care about politics, more politically-charged people to shape new parties with more innovative ideals and perhaps spare us from situations where we're sitting on trains talking to people who feel compelled to vote for UKIP despite their concerns, simple because its 'preferable to the alternative'.

Political disillusion needs to be tackled somewhere down the line. How is that going to be done if the best option presented to us is to weigh up the negatives of a bad bunch of party campaigners and simply vote for the party that is least offensive to us? In the long run it benefits nobody but the select few at the top end of the political parties. It reminds me of that Russell Brand/Jeremy Paxman interview from 2013 - a lot of people deride Brand (and a lot support his views too) but the concept of revolution that he brought to the table, though perhaps melodramatic, is exactly what needs to be considered. If you don't like any of the candidates like the guy on the train didn't, then why the hell don't we have the right to mark a box that states as much?
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Davis » 24 February 2014, 13:06

I hold very libertarian/conservative political views. The left leaning liberals don't make sense with their views. However I'm not going to go any deeper because we've had this talk over and over and in the end it will just end in a flame war and I refuse to be a part of it.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Nam » 24 February 2014, 17:44

Davis wrote:I hold very libertarian/conservative political views. The left leaning liberals don't make sense with their views. However I'm not going to go any deeper because we've had this talk over and over and in the end it will just end in a flame war and I refuse to be a part of it.


Aye its a bit of a hot topic... Im rather conservative myself (used to be a leftie unless I got to uni and sort of had a realisation moment!), however I dont agree with some of the things that the conservative party are doing in the UK; I'm not too sure whats happening stateside though. I dont know about you, but being a gay guy among other things, I have found it pretty difficult when it comes to politics- seems that holding such views can cause issues for all sides! Kind of why I was interested in hearing other peoples views without wanting conflict :D
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Davis » 24 February 2014, 17:48

Nam wrote:
Davis wrote:I hold very libertarian/conservative political views. The left leaning liberals don't make sense with their views. However I'm not going to go any deeper because we've had this talk over and over and in the end it will just end in a flame war and I refuse to be a part of it.


I dont know about you, but being a gay guy among other things, I have found it pretty difficult when it comes to politics- seems that holding such views can cause issues for all sides!


Very hard to have an interest in the same sex and still have conservative viewpoints. The funny thing is though I've been accepted as a homoflexible more by my conservative friends than as a conservative by my gay friends.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Marmaduke » 24 February 2014, 18:00

I'm quite politically conflicted quite a lot of the time. I find myself more and more pro-choice and swinging towards the left, but come time to vote I only ever find myself compelled to vote right of center. I seem to be a fairly die hard conservative through-and-through.

As far as UKIP are concerned, it really does concern me when people say they'll vote for them. A party led by a man who openly admits he has no idea what was in the last manifesto he apparently approved. They're looking to abandon a lot of current education targets, especially around encouraging people into further education. They seem to want to abolish employer national insurance contributions, which in the face of an NHS already struggling to keep itself above the water financially seems staggeringly ignorant to me. One of their big ways of making up for this is by changing tax policy to a universal flat rate of 31%, which only serves to make life harder for those that earn less and gives high earners a break, which I can only see ending in deficit. They want to scrap green taxes and subsidies, and even as someone who is sceptical of whether global warming is all that big of a problem right now, that seems stupid. They just want to pile money into the armed forces, bigger prisons and massive fucking border stations. It's pissing money saved stupidly up a wall of paranoia.

They seem to be mainly garnering the support of white van man and the Daily Mail reading middle class - zenaphobes at large and people who vote without actually looking at what they're putting their name to. Band wagon enthusiasts. All you ever hear are people saying "they want us out of the EU, we don't need Europe telling us how to do things" and that's a stupid reason to leave the Union.

I look upon people who vote UKIP with supreme disappointment. By all means vote for what you believe in, but you can't tell me you believe in that bunch of sneering, silver spoon wankers.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Joe » 26 February 2014, 15:12

Whenever someone tells me they'll vote UKIP, I ask them what their financial policy is.

Nobody ever knows.

I think you should need to know a party before voting for it. In my constituency, it's diluted by people voting for the Tories "because it's what you do".

I would vote for an anti-gay party if their other policies were good. People are far less likely to repeal laws that are already enacted.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Josh » 26 February 2014, 15:49

Joe wrote:I think you should need to know a party before voting for it. In my constituency, it's diluted by people voting for the Tories "because it's what you do".


It's exactly the same here. Since my area became a borough of London in the Sixties it's been Conservative almost the whole time. The one exception was in 1998 when somehow a Labour/Lib Dem coalition was formed, but by-elections saw them replaced by Tories again within two years. Of the 60 council seats, 53 are Tory. No wonder I hate it here :P

But you can ask anyone here about politics and they usually don't have a clue, because they're so used to going through the motions of voting Tory every time.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Descuff » 26 February 2014, 16:02

Joe wrote:Whenever someone tells me they'll vote UKIP, I ask them what their financial policy is.

Nobody ever knows.

I think you should need to know a party before voting for it. In my constituency, it's diluted by people voting for the Tories "because it's what you do".

Sounds a lot like how Americans vote.
I wonder how many people know this is down here
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Holyinternet » 3 March 2014, 10:33

Of coarse I look how they approach the LGBT community, I would be voting against my own interests if that wasn't the case. For example I live in Arizona and my district representative voted against it so i wrote her a letter thanking her. For national election I put equal rights my top priority followed by the economy followed by environmental issues as my third. So yeah I guess you can call me left leaning because right now you can say that not many "conservatives" care much about gay rights in the US and most conservatives actually don't care about getting a balance budget since the last conservative to balance the budget was Eisenhower and the last "Libral/progressive" democrat was Clinton however Clinton did sign DOMA into law. Although he latter regretted the decision.

So yes you can say i am left leaning but honestly I would be left leading without the gay marriage issue since I find the right in the US to be absolute bat shit crazy at the moment.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Bosshogg » 4 March 2014, 22:44

I lean far right on most things, so in the past I have voted for people that may have hindered gay rights. That was before I realized that there are more than two options when voting. Now I vote for whoever wants the most freedom and the least government.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby anzboy » 5 March 2014, 00:04

To the OP

Sounds like he went with the at least we get something option from how I see it. It is sort of a one foot forward half a step back movement. We get partnerships at least, but it isn't marriage.

Picking a political party is picking a poison that does the least damage to you. With congress still barely moving and tight as ever, I can't stand either of the main parties here in America.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Paragon » 6 March 2014, 05:06

On the question of whether or not I would choose a political party based on their position on gay rights, I would say... Not really. But it is a strong indicator of the rest of their policy. I'm all for rational discussion, and I'm okay with emotive discourse and cultural relativity. If that's how everyone feels, then that's fine. It's when people pretend that they're being rational, but still lean back on bullshit - like, say, bronze-age mythology - that I have a problem. I wouldn't vote for someone just because he's pro-gay. I would vote for him because he's not an asshole.
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Re: Political leaning...

Unread postby Adam25 » 7 March 2014, 05:18

I'm right wing, and I'll only vote Republican. I hate their gay marriage views but the left is far worse for a society in general.
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