Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 14:19

Carry laws are the realization that there is quantifiable evil in the world and we are truly on our own when our hour of need is near
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby Brenden » 28 October 2021, 15:54

CaffeineMan wrote:Carry laws are the realization that there is quantifiable evil in the world and we are truly on our own when our hour of need is near


justifiable15.pdf


The reality of self-defense gun use bears no resemblance to the exaggerated claims of the gun lobby and gun industry. The number of justifiable homicides that occur in our nation each year pale in comparison to criminal homicides, let alone gun suicides and fatal unintentional shootings. And contrary to the common stereotype promulgated by the gun lobby, those killed in justifiable homicide incidents don’t always fit the expected profile of an attack by a stranger: in 35.5 percent of the justifiable homicides that occurred in 2012 the persons shot were known to the shooter.

The devastation guns inflict on our nation each and every year is clear: more than 33,000 dead, more than 81,000 wounded, and an untold number of lives traumatized and communities shattered. Unexamined claims of the efficacy and frequency of the self-defense use of firearms are the default rationale offered by the gun lobby and gun industry for this unceasing, bloody toll. The idea that firearms are frequently used in self-defense is the primary argument that the gun lobby and firearms industry use to expand the carrying of firearms into an ever-increasing number of public spaces and even to prevent the regulation of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. Yet this argument is hollow and the assertions false. When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.14
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 15:58

The simplest answer to your studies, Of which I am abundantly familiar, is that if you do not wish to own and or carry a firearm, that is your choice and I respect it.

All I ask in return is that my own right to carry and defend myself be respected as in reality, you have no say over what I do.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby Brenden » 28 October 2021, 16:36

CaffeineMan wrote:The simplest answer to your studies, Of which I am abundantly familiar, is that if you do not wish to own and or carry a firearm, that is your choice and I respect it.

All I ask in return is that my own right to carry and defend myself be respected as in reality, you have no say over what I do.

Your rights end where other people's rights — e.g., to life — begin. Also, the right to own a gun is not a natural right, it is a legal right, and it is one which now does more harm to natural rights than it does benefit them.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 16:38

My natural right to self defense is only codified by the second amendment. It was always there and you are advocating for the right to “feel” safe - not something I’m going to indulge or recognize.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby Brenden » 28 October 2021, 16:52

Guns are a single tool of self defence. They are not self defence incarnate.

The legal right of gun ownership is only justified if it serves the natural rights to life and self-defence.

At this point in our societies, it does not do so.

The data clearly show that:
  • Having so many guns circulating with very little controls makes them too easily accessible to criminals and insane people (many more guns are stolen every year from "good guys with guns" by "bad guys" than times that "good guys" successfully defend themselves using guns). This makes society more dangerous for everyone.
  • The number of times that possession of a gun allows a "good guy" to successfully defend themselves is much, much smaller than the number of a times that a "bad guy with a gun" harms a "good guy with a gun".
  • The possession of a gun in a household makes the members of that household significantly more likely to successfully or accidentally kill themselves (especially men) or harm themselves in truely tragic ways (e.g., bullets to the temple frequently don't kill the person attempting suicide).
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 16:54

Good, you read the data and made a choice for yourself. I read it and chose to be armed. Different strokes and all.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby PopTart » 28 October 2021, 17:08

Gun laws and the US. To those of us from other countries, the whole matter seems so unusual.

We have our own gun laws here and they are very rigorous. I'm quite pleased about that. But then, I do feel we have a better, more accountable democracy than the US. I know alot of gun advocacy groups in the US reason that they need guns to protect them from the tyranny of government. :shrug: Self defense? I dunno. I've never had to sweat being shot at. It's alot easier to run from a madman wielding a knife than one with the power to just point my way and contract a finger.

This is one of those issues, that I think, if taken on the data, on rational reasoning, is pretty cut and dry. More guns are bad. Everyone being armed, doesn't make everyone safer, it just makes everyone better able to inflict more harm, when violence does occur and it often does. It's human nature.

But it's not really a rational matter. It's a deeply emotive one. Lots of history and culture going into the mix that makes a purely reasoned position, less acceptable to some.

I can't say I can relate to gun advocates, but then, I do understand why they argue in favour of gun ownership, even if I don't myself agree with it.

In this, I can afford to be so even handed, as I don't have to live in the soceity in question. :english: :monocle:
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby Brenden » 28 October 2021, 17:10

CaffeineMan wrote:Good, you read the data and made a choice for yourself. I read it and chose to be armed. Different strokes and all.

You apparently also choose to not read. That or you're a dumbass who can't comprehend a simple argument.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 17:13

Get fucked
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 17:23

And I’ll clarify - the country is now going in the direction where crimes - sometimes violent crimes as well - are treated as non prosecutable offenses.

Biden nominated an DA from Boston to be the AG for the state. Among her non prosecuting offenses include breaking and entering, resisting arrest, assaults on cops. Combine this with the defund/abolish police movements and you’ve all but told the regular citizen they’re on their own.

I will not disarm. I reject the notion of collective protection, especially when the collective encourages crime.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby PopTart » 28 October 2021, 17:37

CaffeineMan wrote:And I’ll clarify - the country is now going in the direction where crimes - sometimes violent crimes as well - are treated as non prosecutable offenses.
Are you able to elaborate or cite examples? Genuinely curious here.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 17:38

I did - feel free to Google Rachael Rollins “do not prosecute list”
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby Brenden » 28 October 2021, 18:15

Ah, yes. 'Go Google it yourself' — the timeless classic of shit-for-brains spewing their verbal vomit online.

Make claims, but then tell other people to look for evidence.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby PopTart » 28 October 2021, 18:19

CaffeineMan wrote:I did - feel free to Google Rachael Rollins “do not prosecute list”

Some on that list seem reasonable, but I'll admit, declining to charge for drug possession with intent to supply? One or two others are eyebrow raise worthy. But in isolation, I can't say they would sway me to want to take the law into my own hands. But again, I put great trust in the British legal and justice system.

Perhaps, a good question in this debate, is why so many Americans don't feel the same way about their/your own

https://rollins4da.com/policy/charges-to-be-declined/
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 18:25

Brenden wrote:Ah, yes. 'Go Google it yourself' — the timeless classic of shit-for-brains spewing their verbal vomit online.

Make claims, but then tell other people to look for evidence.



Well, it’s no different than your side screaming “read a book.”
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby pozzie » 28 October 2021, 19:38

I'll admit to having a lot less difficulty accepting a person who works a late shift in a "difficult" neighborhood carrying a sidearm. What I don't get is why a guy needs an assault rifle to go shopping at Target -- I mean, it's not like they have those aggressive perfume sprayers or anything (though some parts of the store might have too many candles for purchase).

But hey, what about my right to bear an ICBM?!? Don't I also have the right to protect myself from North Korean aggression? Clearly few can argue (especially successfully in court) that this right is without limitation. It often strikes me that those who argue the most for "no limits whatsoever" are those who stand to make a buck - the classic 'special interest' if you ask me.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby CaffeineMan » 28 October 2021, 19:42

Most normal folks who carry guns don’t carry an AR shopping. We’re as annoyed as you are, those weapons are beat suited for the home, range or hunting.

I can’t take the icbm argument seriously
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby PopTart » 28 October 2021, 20:05

pozboro wrote:I'll admit to having a lot less difficulty accepting a person who works a late shift in a "difficult" neighborhood carrying a sidearm. What I don't get is why a guy needs an assault rifle to go shopping at Target -- I mean, it's not like they have those aggressive perfume sprayers or anything (though some parts of the store might have too many candles for purchase).

Right? The prevelance of side arms, necessitates carrying a side arm, in some places in the states, I can accept that reasoning, but I'm with you on the assault rifle part.

Even in the home, an assault rifle seems a tad... overkill. As likely to kill your own friends and family who happen to be there, at the same time as an intruder.

I should imagine they are fun to fire ofcourse and the range seems like the perfect place to get that experience.
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Re: Texas Passes Constitutional Carry.

Unread postby Brenden » 28 October 2021, 21:25

CaffeineMan wrote:
Brenden wrote:Ah, yes. 'Go Google it yourself' — the timeless classic of shit-for-brains spewing their verbal vomit online.

Make claims, but then tell other people to look for evidence.

Well, it’s no different than your side screaming “read a book.”

Which side is that? Because I'd put people who do that on the same side as people who say "Google it yourself". That is: lazy people who barely know how to think for themselves let alone make their own arguments.

And these people are numerous on all sides of every issue.
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