UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Discuss the news, current events, politics, etc.

Who will you vote for in the 2015 UK Election?

Conservative
7
23%
Labour
3
10%
Lib Dem
3
10%
UKIP
2
6%
Green
11
35%
SNP
1
3%
Other
4
13%
 
Total votes : 31

UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Barney » 9 March 2015, 10:19

I remember the concern and speculation caused by the possibility of the first coalition government in the UK since the Second World War during the election in 2010. Now, coalition government seems like a part of the British political process but this election looks as though it's going to be even more divisive and bitter with a number of minor parties making breakthroughs at the expense of the two main parties. I have voted for independent and Conservative Party candidates in the past and have had to very carefully consider who to vote for in this May's election. Ultimately, I think a Labour/SNP government would be disastrous for our progress towards economic renewal and so I've decided to vote for the Tories this election. What do other people think? Are Ed Miliband and Ed Balls up to the task of providing strong leadership? Should we focus on getting rid of the deficit or spending more? Who will you vote for?
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 9 March 2015, 10:33

I will, in all likelihood, spoil my ballot (which is what I did in 2010). I just cannot bring myself endorse any of the options available. I absolutely loathe the coalition, and I don't understand why Labour has so painfully failed to clean up based on the govt's dismal performance. I've never been convinced that austerity was based on sound economics and I think the govt has gone out of its way to cause a remarkable amount of harm for precious little gain.

Labour on the other hand just do not seem trustworthy. I can't for the life of me discern that they have offered anything like an alternative, and they have been just woefully ineffective as an opposition - which to me is a serious responsibility. I can't see anything good coming out of the election in May, unfortunately.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Brenden » 9 March 2015, 15:00

I would love to see a Green-SNP-LibDem-UKIP coalition, just so they can finally bring the UK into the 21st century as far as elections are concerned. That a small European country in 2015 still uses FPTP, and with a whopping 650 representatives, is astounding. Then, having done that, in the following election I'd like to see a grassroots-reformed Labour party form a coalition with the Green Party.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Josh » 9 March 2015, 16:03

You know things are dire when you can name the party you want to see in power the least, even the party you want to see in power second-least, but cannot commit yourself to a single party you'd want to win.

The Lib Dems are probably the party I'd be most inclined to vote for on the basis of what they stand for, and I feel that they have softened the blow of a predominant Tory term (it seriously scares me how bad things would be if it was simply Tory rule right now, as they've been atrocious). But whether they actually stand by their greatest convictions is disputable enough for them to have lost a massive amount of support - in turn contributing to the recent surge of support for the Green Party.

The thing is though, none of them appeal to me enough to put my name to them. The whole system is terribly outdated, the candidates largely out of touch. We have an older generation disillusioned to the point they simply make a scapegoat of whichever party is currently in power and vote the other way come the next election, batting the ball between Conservative and Labour (and with less of a Lib Dem threat, Labour now seems to be leaning ever more to the right so the parties are now less distinguishable than ever), and a younger generation that is also disillusioned - to the point of disinterest where many are concerned. Fewer than 65% of people voted in the last election as it was.

It will take a hell of a manifesto to sway me to a vote in May, but I don't see a possible good outcome ahead. Now more than ever I wish I could actively abstain.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Nam » 9 March 2015, 16:35

Josh wrote:You know things are dire when you can name the party you want to see in power the least, even the party you want to see in power second-least, but cannot commit yourself to a single party you'd want to win.


Thats exactly what I think too!

As for who i will vote for, i do not know, I am going to, I always do, but for who; hmmm. Personally i think they are all just preachers of one thing, doers of another- I can see why people are so disillusioned or apathetic around politics today.

I would note vote Conservative as they have shown themselves to be incapable of following through on their promises- just look at the immigration fiasco. They may have had some impact on economic side of things, but for the majority, I just don't think they have done anything noticeable.

I would not vote Labour because i do not feel the leader is up to the job; miliband cannot even handle a bacon sandwich for a start, plus I hold them partly responsible for the shit I have to deal with in my work. They have done nothing which inspires me to believe they will be effective.

I would not vote Lib-Dem primarily because they have shown themselves to be weak and will sell out their values for a bit of power. I actually will not be surprised if nobody votes for them again after this performance.

I would note vote Green even if I was offered money to do it. To me they are bunch of idiots who have said things recently which makes be question the sanity of the party and how humans think.

I will stop now before i go through each party!

I could end up voting for something which will count for nothing; there are always parties that will never get in who you can rely on for a alternative to the main. If I was to vote for a main party which may stand a chance. I dont know; out of all of them, perhaps Ukip; they will not win outright so could end up in a coalition which would mean one of the other main parties would be with them-perhaps Ukip could make it harder for them to peddle shit? I do not agree with everything they say which is the same with all parties; I also personally think Farage has consistently managed questions and speeches better than the others-he is the only one that has not turned to personal attacks and instead sticks to his figures.

Sorry for the rant, but where else can you talk politics without getting into an argument?!
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Nicholas » 9 March 2015, 17:45

Labour.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby GoPink! » 9 March 2015, 20:53

Nam wrote:I could end up voting for something which will count for nothing

Your vote would never count for nothing. Your vote is one less vote towards a party that you do not particularly wish to see form a Government.

Brenden wrote:That a small European country in 2015 still uses FPTP, and with a whopping 650 representatives, is astounding.

You say this but every voting system has its cons, and some of worse than the FPTP system.

OT: Anywho, Conservatives. I wouldn't vote for the Green Party because Ms. Bennett is surely snorting rainbows and talking to pixies. However, despite whoever I vote for, there will likely be another coalition which is almost as dumb as this one.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Josh » 9 March 2015, 20:55

GoPink! wrote:
Nam wrote:I could end up voting for something which will count for nothing

Your vote would never count for nothing. Your vote is one less vote towards a party that you do not particularly wish to see form a Government.

So too is not voting at all though, not that I necessarily think that's the right thing to do.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby GoPink! » 9 March 2015, 20:57

Josh wrote:
GoPink! wrote:
Nam wrote:I could end up voting for something which will count for nothing

Your vote would never count for nothing. Your vote is one less vote towards a party that you do not particularly wish to see form a Government.

So too is not voting at all though, not that I necessarily think that's the right thing to do.

It may well be, but if you do not vote you cannot really complain about the government we end up with; you did nothing to try and change it.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Josh » 9 March 2015, 21:07

GoPink! wrote:
Josh wrote:
GoPink! wrote:
Nam wrote:I could end up voting for something which will count for nothing

Your vote would never count for nothing. Your vote is one less vote towards a party that you do not particularly wish to see form a Government.

So too is not voting at all though, not that I necessarily think that's the right thing to do.

It may well be, but if you do not vote you cannot really complain about the government we end up with; you did nothing to try and change it.

Agreed, to an extent. Many people only end up turning against voting because they were disillusioned by where voting got them in the first place.

As an example, the Lib Dems secured a mass vote from the younger generation at the last election, largely due to their claimed commitment to cap the University tuition fees. All people then see later on is a party that entered a Coalition, essentially turned their back on their policies, and were part of the Government that upped said fees by 200%.

It's hard to encourage people to vote, or vote again, or blame them for political apathy when their attempts to change things get them nowhere but worse off. That's not necessarily my outlook, but I can't blame anyone who holds that outlook either.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby GoPink! » 9 March 2015, 21:17

Josh wrote:
GoPink! wrote:
Josh wrote:
GoPink! wrote:
Nam wrote:I could end up voting for something which will count for nothing

Your vote would never count for nothing. Your vote is one less vote towards a party that you do not particularly wish to see form a Government.

So too is not voting at all though, not that I necessarily think that's the right thing to do.

It may well be, but if you do not vote you cannot really complain about the government we end up with; you did nothing to try and change it.

Agreed, to an extent. Many people only end up turning against voting because they were disillusioned by where voting got them in the first place.

As an example, the Lib Dems secured a mass vote from the younger generation at the last election, largely due to their claimed commitment to cap the University tuition fees. All people then see later on is a party that entered a Coalition, essentially turned their back on their policies, and were part of the Government that upped said fees by 200%.

It's hard to encourage people to vote, or vote again, or blame them for political apathy when their attempts to change things get them nowhere but worse off. That's not necessarily my outlook, but I can't blame anyone who holds that outlook either.

No, I wouldn't blame them either. My mother has never voted because she doesn't feel that her vote is heard. However, if more people voted then there could be a dramatic change seen if more people were shown they could vote again.

Despite what I said earlier towards Brenden's comment on FPTP, I think we do need a new voting system. Maybe SV, like used for the Mayoral Elections.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Brenden » 10 March 2015, 04:06

GoPink! wrote:
Brenden wrote:That a small European country in 2015 still uses FPTP, and with a whopping 650 representatives, is astounding.

You say this but every voting system has its cons, and some of worse than the FPTP system.

No, no. I'm pretty sure the system that allows for a party to receive just 35.2% of the popular vote yet control 55.0% of a legislature and single-handedly rule a country for 5 years is extremely unrepresentative and undemocratic. Any system that is even marginally proportional is far better.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 10 March 2015, 04:15

Actually not voting is less effective than spoiling your ballot - if you don't vote, you don't count towards the pool of ballots that your local candidate needs to win a plurality (not a majority) of. If you spoil your ballot, the candidate's target number of votes they need to win increases by 1.

To put it another way, MPs only have to win the biggest number of cast ballots - not the biggest number of registered voters in their constituency.

I've never been a fan of PR systems. I actually voted in favour of AV which I think is just a more nuanced way to express your views than "1 man, vote." Alas, the Great British Public do not like change.

Also - you are way way entitled to not vote and then complain afterwards. If you do not feel that any of the options are appealing, or for whatever other reason decide not to vote, voting is a right and not an obligation.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Brenden » 10 March 2015, 04:46

Zdrastviy wrote:I've never been a fan of PR systems.

Why is that?

The Netherlands uses a proportional system called party-list proportional representation in which each party produces an ordered list of candidates and people choose exactly which candidate that they like — for instance, René's parents vote for a centrist Christian party but since René came out they always vote for the gay candidate lower on the list — while all the votes for all the candidates in a party determine what proportion of seats they get, the votes for candidates determine who gets those seats. Most people simply vote for the party leader, but it allows for the opportunity for the people themselves to, if they don't like the current leader of a party *cough* Nick Clegg *cough*, essentially oust the party leadership without having to strategically vote for another party they may not agree with as much.

That's all well and good for a country with a population the size of some middling US states, but what about for a country with a larger population spread out over a larger geographic area? If you like the concept of constituencies and having certain politicians beholden to a local population, which I do for geographically diverse countries such as this, there is mixed-member proportional representation, such as Germany's system.

Either way, the point is to produce a legislature that actually represents the will of the people.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 10 March 2015, 04:55

They all but guarantee coalition governments - often far more fragile ones than the one we've been burdened with in the UK. Fine, you may say. But the reality seems to be that rather than co-operating and reaching compromises (and compromises are not always good policy decisions), govts borne from PR systems will actually just as often ignore heavy issues that are likely to cause the coalition to break down.

I also seem to remember reading (and hearing from friends from Germany) that the system often causes it to take forever for local governments to form - I know in Frankfurt it once took months for a local govt to form. Not ideal.

I far prefer majoritarian systems like the one used for the French presidential elections, where a majority is engineered by a candidate who has some degree of support from enough people to be happy with them.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 10 March 2015, 04:59

Either way, the point is to produce a legislature that actually represents the will of the people.


The "will of the people" is extremely schizophrenic, though. There is no such thing.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Brenden » 10 March 2015, 14:35

Zdrastviy wrote:
Either way, the point is to produce a legislature that actually represents the will of the people.

The "will of the people" is extremely schizophrenic, though. There is no such thing.

No, the will of the people is diverse. Hence why legislatures and governments ought to be diverse.

Zdrastviy wrote:They all but guarantee coalition governments - often far more fragile ones than the one we've been burdened with in the UK. Fine, you may say. But the reality seems to be that rather than co-operating and reaching compromises (and compromises are not always good policy decisions), govts borne from PR systems will actually just as often ignore heavy issues that are likely to cause the coalition to break down.

Fragile coalitions ensure that one party can't take the entire country down their particular ideological route, as is essentially happening in Canada and here despite the ruling parties only getting 39.6 and 36.1 percent of the popular vote, respectively. Rather, they keep the country in the centre lane of a well-paved motorway. They ensure that one party can't take the country to war because its leader happens to be sucking another world leader's dick. They allow for government to have the checks and balances which are otherwise sorely lacking in a system where a unicameral (in practice) parliament reigns supreme.

What's "schizophrenic" is having government tumbling back and forth on a seesaw from political extreme to political extreme every 5 to 10 years.

Zdrastviy wrote:I also seem to remember reading (and hearing from friends from Germany) that the system often causes it to take forever for local governments to form - I know in Frankfurt it once took months for a local govt to form. Not ideal.

Local governance is a whole different matter.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 10 March 2015, 15:22

No, the will of the people is diverse. Hence why legislatures and governments ought to be diverse.


Taking the electorate as a whole, it wants tax cuts, but higher welfare and military spending, it wants less immigration but a world-leading NHS and a major world city. There is no will of the people - just different people who will different things and expect the government to listen.


Fragile coalitions ensure that one party can't take the entire country down their particular ideological route, as is essentially happening in Canada and here despite the ruling parties only getting 39.6 and 36.1 percent of the popular vote, respectively.


I don't disagree that those are valid problems - but I don't think they stem entirely from the electoral system. I also don't think trading one set of problems for another is much of a solution. Is it really all that democratic for instance to have a government that is fairly representative - yet it is hampered by that representativeness from actually doing anything or governing effectively? Democratic governments don't only need to be held accountable by an electorate - they need to be capable of serving, of governing.

Rather, they keep the country in the centre lane of a well-paved motorway. They ensure that one party can't take the country to war because its leader happens to be sucking another world leader's dick.


The truth is not always in the middle, though. Also, bear in mind when you say "ensure", you mean that they hold the country's governmental stability like a bargaining chip. What happens when you need to stray from the middle road? Governments - especially modern ones - are enormous in size and are presented with problems that are hugely complex even on their own terms, even before you take into account vying interest groups. Sometimes problems are extreme - or the only realistic solutions are. Coalitions present a massive incentive to ignore or patch over policy issues that are divisive - or even just unpopular ("the people" are not always right about what is important, unfortunately). Stray too far from the middle road and boom - down comes the government.

Local governance is a whole different matter.
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Well, yes and no. I think it's still a good example of a problem that derives from using proportional voting.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby GoPink! » 10 March 2015, 18:36

Brenden wrote:
GoPink! wrote:
Brenden wrote:That a small European country in 2015 still uses FPTP, and with a whopping 650 representatives, is astounding.

You say this but every voting system has its cons, and some of worse than the FPTP system.

No, no. I'm pretty sure the system that allows for a party to receive just 35.2% of the popular vote yet control 54.6% of a legislature and single-handedly rule a country for 5 years is extremely unrepresentative and undemocratic. Any system that is even marginally proportional is far better.


GoPink! wrote:Despite what I said earlier towards Brenden's comment on FPTP, I think we do need a new voting system. Maybe SV, like used for the Mayoral Elections.
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Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Edward » 15 March 2015, 19:14

My prediction is that Labour will form a minority government propped up by the SNP and Lib Dems for a few months before finally supporting proportional representation (as FPTP now actually works against them in Scotland) and calling another election in November.

I'm still undecided who I will vote for. Toss up between Labour, Greens and Lib Dems.
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