UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Discuss the news, current events, politics, etc.

Who will you vote for in the 2015 UK Election?

Conservative
7
23%
Labour
3
10%
Lib Dem
3
10%
UKIP
2
6%
Green
11
35%
SNP
1
3%
Other
4
13%
 
Total votes : 31

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Joe » 30 April 2015, 20:56

Brenden wrote:anti AV


What sort of PR? STV or list PR?
Image
User avatar
Joe
 
Posts: 361
Joined: 25 December 2012, 23:21
Location: مدينة برستن, شمال غرب إنجلترا
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Brenden » 30 April 2015, 22:41

Joe wrote:
Brenden wrote:anti AV

What sort of PR? STV or list PR?

STV kind of has the same undemocratic feel Marmaduke alluded to as AV, no? A person's vote getting "transferred" is essentially a second vote.

I think a party-list proportional large-constituency system would be best, sort of like the European Parliament. This also fits in with my desire to see the United Kingdom federalised, with regions such as Yorkshire, Scotland, and Wales gaining equal autonomy.
Disclaimer: All views expressed in my posts are my own and do not reflect the views of this forum except when otherwise stated or this signature is not present.

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Brenden
Administrator
 
Posts: 7832
+1s received: 2614
Joined: 20 December 2012, 20:12
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland
Country: United States (us)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 1 May 2015, 04:54

Brenden wrote:
Joe wrote:
Brenden wrote:anti AV

What sort of PR? STV or list PR?

STV kind of has the same undemocratic feel Marmaduke alluded to as AV, no? A person's vote getting "transferred" is essentially a second vote.

I think a party-list proportional large-constituency system would be best, sort of like the European Parliament. This also fits in with my desire to see the United Kingdom federalised, with regions such as Yorkshire, Scotland, and Wales gaining equal autonomy.

Never going to happen. It's ridiculous enough that America does that, it causes enough problems there. We're too small for it to ever make sense anyway.

Thr UK isn't going to devolve to anymore constituencies than it already has. Not meaningfully. We already have too many logistically and the British people already think government and MPs cost too much. We already have more MPs than we can actually fit in the House of Commons, they already have to pre-book seats on bigger days and the vast majority of MPs even in the big parties don't have offices because the Palace of Westminster isn't big enough. Devolving the issue just brings unnecessary and ridiculous bureaucracy and huge national disharmony. It opens the door to the ridiculous state of affairs of a man driving from London to Manchester and passing through 6 separate judiciaries in the space of 150 miles. How anyone can make a practical argument for such an obscene state of affairs is beyond me.
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 7202
+1s received: 2196
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby c1ask0 » 1 May 2015, 07:28

Brenden wrote:
Joe wrote:
Brenden wrote:anti AV

What sort of PR? STV or list PR?

STV kind of has the same undemocratic feel Marmaduke alluded to as AV, no? A person's vote getting "transferred" is essentially a second vote.

I think a party-list proportional large-constituency system would be best, sort of like the European Parliament. This also fits in with my desire to see the United Kingdom federalised, with regions such as Yorkshire, Scotland, and Wales gaining equal autonomy.

I can respect that the constituent countries of the UK may want to pass different laws to each other and that makes sense to an extent. However, there is no way I would ever support a system which enables different parts of England to be governed in different ways. The laws are different in different countries. I see no reason to make it more complicated than that.
Don't think about doing it tomorrow. You won't do it tomorrow. Do it today.
User avatar
c1ask0
Moderator
 
Posts: 4168
+1s received: 63
Joined: 17 December 2013, 19:48
Location: Preston
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Brenden » 1 May 2015, 09:30

I'm not saying more constituencies, Joe. I'm saying larger ones with fewer total MPs. The MPs from each large constituency would then be elected proportionally. This would mean you would still have somewhat local people representing locals nationally, but still have an overall proportionally representative Parliament.

What makes Scotland so different and special from Yorkshire? You know the people of Yorkshire rebelled against King Henry VIII. You know King William I committed genocide against the people of the North. Why should England remain one large entity dominated by the population of London when there are nearly as many people living in West Yorkshire alone, let alone all of Yorkshire, as there are in all of Wales? What makes the Welsh special enough to self-govern and have more autonomy than the people of Yorkshire or Cornwall?

Even during the highly centralised early Norman monarchies the historic counties were largely ruled by their own earls and shire courts!
Disclaimer: All views expressed in my posts are my own and do not reflect the views of this forum except when otherwise stated or this signature is not present.

ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Brenden
Administrator
 
Posts: 7832
+1s received: 2614
Joined: 20 December 2012, 20:12
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland
Country: United States (us)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby c1ask0 » 1 May 2015, 15:23

I have just discovered that my local labour candidate - the current MP of the constituency - voted against gay marriage. I must now rethink my course of action. :|
Don't think about doing it tomorrow. You won't do it tomorrow. Do it today.
User avatar
c1ask0
Moderator
 
Posts: 4168
+1s received: 63
Joined: 17 December 2013, 19:48
Location: Preston
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Severelius » 1 May 2015, 16:31

Hey, my Tory MP actively debated against it in the Commons, and made himself sound supremely stupid in the process.
User avatar
Severelius
 
Posts: 3416
+1s received: 563
Joined: 6 May 2014, 20:49
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby c1ask0 » 1 May 2015, 16:47

The sad thing is that they'll both probably be re-elected. I'll have to weight this up against my other options before I rule him out completely.
Don't think about doing it tomorrow. You won't do it tomorrow. Do it today.
User avatar
c1ask0
Moderator
 
Posts: 4168
+1s received: 63
Joined: 17 December 2013, 19:48
Location: Preston
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Eirik » 1 May 2015, 17:36

Brenden wrote:This also fits in with my desire to see the United Kingdom federalised, with regions such as Yorkshire, Scotland, and Wales gaining equal autonomy.


I totally understand that this, and most similar assertions, stem from a desire to see economic and cultural assets spread more evenly over the country and not just concentrated in London. But the fact remains that London is too important for that ever to happen, and even if the UK did federalise in the way you suggest, London would dig its heels and keep hold of everything it could.

Does anyone have an opinion on the VoteSwap website where Green and Labour voters agree to swap votes depending on which constituency they live in, purely to have the best chance of keeping out the Tories?
User avatar
Eirik
 
Posts: 470
+1s received: 1
Joined: 28 July 2013, 21:47
Location: London

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Severelius » 1 May 2015, 17:46

c1ask0 wrote:The sad thing is that they'll both probably be re-elected. I'll have to weight this up against my other options before I rule him out completely.

Oh mine is getting elected so comfortably they might as well call the election for this constituency now. Almost 100 years this seat has existed and it's never come even close to being held by anyone other than whatever Tory decides they want it.

The main challenge has recently and consistently been the Liberal Democrats. I don't see them putting up much of a fight this time around, because they've been destroyed by 5 years of being the Tories' begrudging mafia wife.

Nothing short of a massive Labour groundswell coupled with UKIP cleaving the Tory vote in half is ever going to change the colour of this place.
User avatar
Severelius
 
Posts: 3416
+1s received: 563
Joined: 6 May 2014, 20:49
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Edward » 1 May 2015, 19:59

I've realised that I'm undecided whether I'm anti-austerity or not. I think I've concluded that, whilst Labour can not be blamed for the huge rise in the national debt, we are now in a position where it is necessary to start running a surplus. However, I don't see how the majority of this can't be made up through tax receipts as our economy begins to grow again, given that the huge rise in the deficit came about as a result of tax receipts falling during the recession. Though I do think some balancing of the economy needs to be redone (over a gradual process) through a combination of tax increases, tackling tax avoidance and efficiency savings.

Krugman wrote a nice article on it

I struggle to agree with the Green Party on many issues but I think they'd be a good force to have in parliament. I'd probably vote Caroline Lucas if she ran for my constituency. As it stands though, I think I've firmly decided I'm voting Labour next week.

I'm also hoping that a party with electoral reform plans has some influence in the next parliament. However, the Liberal Democrats have proved how weak they are at pushing that agenda and I fear the SNP may go quiet on the issue now that FPTP is working fantastically for them (a recent poll predicted that they would win every seat in Scotland with just 54% of the vote). Ed Miliband supported AV but his party were generally against it, I hope he does a completely selfless deed and pushes for proportional representation.

Owen Jones wrote a nice article on this too. It seems to support my theory a few weeks ago that Labour may end up bringing in PR and calling another election.

Eirik wrote:Does anyone have an opinion on the VoteSwap website where Green and Labour voters agree to swap votes depending on which constituency they live in, purely to have the best chance of keeping out the Tories?



Mainly that it highlights everything that is wrong with FPTP. It also relies very strongly on trust. What's to stop a Tory voter claiming that they'll vote Labour in a Labour/Tory marginal?
Formerly known as upthebracket
Edward
 
Posts: 864
+1s received: 2
Joined: 21 December 2012, 00:54
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby c1ask0 » 1 May 2015, 21:14

Just an interesting point that one of my friends brought up today. Should we ever really expect the leading party to push through a change to the voting system that saw them take power in the first place? It's an interesting notion and she probably has a point. As much as people may not like it, FPTP could be around for a little longer than we think.
Don't think about doing it tomorrow. You won't do it tomorrow. Do it today.
User avatar
c1ask0
Moderator
 
Posts: 4168
+1s received: 63
Joined: 17 December 2013, 19:48
Location: Preston
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Joe » 1 May 2015, 22:53

c1ask0 wrote:Just an interesting point that one of my friends brought up today. Should we ever really expect the leading party to push through a change to the voting system that saw them take power in the first place? It's an interesting notion and she probably has a point. As much as people may not like it, FPTP could be around for a little longer than we think.


It's something that's been widely discussed in the local party; if, heaven forbid, we ever won a majority, would we really change the electoral system? I'm all but certain the only reason we support it is because it'd make it easier for Lib Dems to be elected. National list PR at the last election would have given us around 150 MPs.
Image
User avatar
Joe
 
Posts: 361
Joined: 25 December 2012, 23:21
Location: مدينة برستن, شمال غرب إنجلترا
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Jacketh » 2 May 2015, 00:25

c1ask0 wrote:Just an interesting point that one of my friends brought up today. Should we ever really expect the leading party to push through a change to the voting system that saw them take power in the first place? It's an interesting notion and she probably has a point. As much as people may not like it, FPTP could be around for a little longer than we think.


Exactly. Both Labour and the Conservatives benefit from FPTP. It supports a two party system and it is even worse in the US.

The electoral system will remain undemocratic and fucked for the foreseeable future; just how the politicians want it to be. Because, you know, who cares about democracy?
User avatar
Jacketh
 
Posts: 606
+1s received: 326
Joined: 30 January 2015, 00:12
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 2 May 2015, 09:29

What did people make of Miliband on Thursday night?

I must say, he won a lot of respect from me. I think to openly say that you are willing to forgo a chance at governing rather than make deals with the SNP is a very principled thing to do, and I admire him for having the guts to say it.
Nonsense, I have not yet begun to defile myself.
User avatar
Ciniselli
 
Posts: 311
+1s received: 3
Joined: 8 March 2015, 16:17
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 2 May 2015, 10:11

Ciniselli wrote:What did people make of Miliband on Thursday night?

I must say, he won a lot of respect from me. I think to openly say that you are willing to forgo a chance at governing rather than make deals with the SNP is a very principled thing to do, and I admire him for having the guts to say it.

He should've been more political about it. It was bad enough that he couldn't just admit that Gordon Brown overspent, to also basically tell Scotland to go fuck themselves will badly alienate voters. Yes, he managed to be quite personable but his content was so damaging to Labour. He came away from the debate badly bruised. And you saw him stumble and nearly fall off the stage at the end of his time.
Marmaduke
 
Posts: 7202
+1s received: 2196
Joined: 23 December 2012, 17:56
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Ciniselli » 2 May 2015, 15:24

As I argued earlier, I think the "Labour spent all the money" argument (which is what people were confronting him with really) is something of a fiction. But he could and should have done more to counter it rather than let people walk all over him like they did.

You're right, though, on balance it probably wasn't a good showing for him.
Nonsense, I have not yet begun to defile myself.
User avatar
Ciniselli
 
Posts: 311
+1s received: 3
Joined: 8 March 2015, 16:17
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Edward » 2 May 2015, 17:52

The huge increase in the deficit was primarily due to a fall in tax receipts. Labour had been running a deficit before that (one that was lower than at the end of the Major Government) but the opposition weren't exactly jumping up and down in their seats panicking about it. Cameron, for example, was more interested in calling for less banking regulation.

Perhaps they should have done more to rebalance the economy during the boom years, though the deficit was pretty stable as a percentage of GDP. If Labour are to be blamed for that though, then so should every other party.
Formerly known as upthebracket
Edward
 
Posts: 864
+1s received: 2
Joined: 21 December 2012, 00:54
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Severelius » 2 May 2015, 17:54

Honestly, even with the slip-ups I still think Ed Miliband is a league above David Cameron in my books.

Wonky messaging is bad, yes. But accidentally calling the election "career-defining" instead of "country-defining" is a touch worse in exposing you for the cretin in a posh suit you so clearly are.

Miliband's problems aside, I still get the feeling that beneath it all there's a halfway decent person in there. David Cameron, beneath all his imaging, is a Silurian.
User avatar
Severelius
 
Posts: 3416
+1s received: 563
Joined: 6 May 2014, 20:49
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

Re: UK Election - Who are you voting for?

Unread postby Tony » 2 May 2015, 18:00

Severelius wrote:David Cameron, beneath all his imaging, is a Silurian.

:rofl:



I'm still kinda undecided at the moment :/
Tony
 
Posts: 3294
+1s received: 194
Joined: 24 October 2014, 20:30
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom (gb)

PreviousNext

Recently active
Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], holumhood and 40 guests