Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

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Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby stevie1400 » 30 October 2021, 11:23

I have a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome (which is a type of Autism), so I tend to browse autism-related forums. I was reading one on Reddit a few weeks back when I encountered this topic:

https://old.reddit.com/r/autism/comment ... &limit=500

Does anyone know WTF people are talking about in that thread?

Autistic people tend to express themselves in odd ways, so its hard for me to tell if the people contributing to that thread are attempting to take the piss at political correctness... or if they are actually being serious.

Here's some of the "genders" and "sexualities" which I've copied/pasted which I'm sure I'd never heard of until recently:

Bigendered(non-binary & masculine AMAB), pansexual bisexual - Doesn't masculine kinda defeat the point of being non-binary?
Biromantic nonbinary transmasc - I'm guessing biromantic means you are attracted to ball point pens :lol: .
I’m bi/pan and trans-male-adjacent non-binary.
Yes, I’m Bigender (Non-Binary/Female), Bi/Omni, and Grey-Asexual - She/They - :wide-eyed:
I identify as Agender and Toric - Toric is definitely a new one to me.
im a demi-girl sapphic - Sapphic is also a new one to me.
Agender, genderfluid, and demiromantic asexual here - Again, don't these contradict each other?
Bisexual AMAB gender ambivalent poly (relationship anarchist)
im a lesbian (not sure on gender) - Probably female then.
I'm bisexual, demisexual, polyamorous, cisgender (she/her), and gender nonconforming.
Demiflor (maverique/genderblank) demiboy!

My 32 year old daughter even struggles with understanding this new world of gender terminology. My 16 year old though, he knows ALL those words and when the new ones come out he knows those too. His best friend says jellyfish is jellyfish gender (Not he, she, or they--- jellyfish) and goes by the name Jelly. And I don't know what the heck that means even after my son explains it! It's part of the nonbinary spectrum I suppose. - I think this quote sums it up quite nicely.

Assuming these people are all being serious, I guess I have some learning to do. I miss the days when we were either male or female, and either homo-, hetero-, or bi-sexual.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby pozzie » 31 October 2021, 19:37

Can't say I feel anything like qualified to comment on the authenticity of the words/phrases used. I certainly understand them on a linguistic level since they are made up of parts that I get, but exactly how they get mixed and matched and what that tells me about another person. :shrug: I might not get the meanings but do understand that people feel the need to express who they are in such a way (and avoid labels that feel alien to them -- just like such labels as listed above might feel alien to some of us).

Would you be willing to change the topic from "weird" to "unusual" or "rare" or something similar? Weird includes an unpleasant vibe and I for one don't want to label someone as weird simply because I don't have a good handle on what they are trying to tell me.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby Derek » 1 November 2021, 03:33

Non-binary identities are becoming increasingly common. I have noticed that terms like demiboy or demigirl, pan, and genderfluid aren't as popular as they once were - I think the emergence of non-binary identity and they/them pronouns has had something of a magnet effect.

I don't think it's something that bears overthinking. Some of those terms are categories of gender, some are just descriptions of affect and lifestyle. People like describing themselves. For some people, identifying as a bi-gender demigirl is a step on the way to settling on something more recognizable, and I'm loathe to criticize the gender expression of a teenager trying to figure themselves out. If you don't understand what someone's saying, just ask for pronouns and move on.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 6 November 2021, 17:33

And then there’s Microsoft:



I would suggest they modify their intros thusly: “We stand on ideas copied from the Netscapes and the Notions…”
Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
Ramzus: I can admit that I'm horny just about 24/7
homomorphism: I used to not think your name was deshay and that Erick was just being racist
Hunter: sometimes I think I was literally born to be a pornstar
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby AGIS » 8 November 2021, 11:37

None of that exists. People all want to be a part of the "non binary" community because they lack any identity, and reach out to find something. It's a way for people to be a part of something. And with this new found "identity", they feel it entitles them to "educate" others on their nonsensical self view (usually in the most patronizing, snarky way way possible). The "gender trenders" are just that. A trend.

Don't pay attention to them or feed them any relevancy.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby stevie1400 » 21 November 2021, 09:20

poolerboy0077 wrote:And then there’s Microsoft:


*sigh*

Although I can kind of understand them describing their appearance. That could be beneficial to those who are either visually impaired, or those who are just listening and not watching, but I think such descriptions would get tedious after a while.

AGIS wrote:The "gender trenders" are just that. A trend.


I only hope that it is in fact a trend and will go away after a while. Nonsense genders only seem to be getting more and more popular, so there's a chance it won't go away.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby stevie1400 » 21 November 2021, 10:05

Regarding that Microsoft video, is describing your appearance (in a video) the new fashion? I watched the video that poolerboy linked last week and didn't think much of it, but today I watched a (completely unrelated) video on another forum where they did the same thing, but worse. They were describing their hair cuts, how thick their glasses are, even the fact that one of them has cookery books in the background because she is currently in the kitchen.

Wait, I can't remember if the kitchen one had them's pronouns listed or not. If not, I apologise in case they is not a she.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby Brenden » 21 November 2021, 12:48

I think I'd be insulted as a blind person if I wanted to listen to a video about a specific subject, especially if it was relevant to my line of work, and the presenters spent several minutes of my time telling me completely uninteresting and irrelevant information about themselves. It also makes them seem narcissistic.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby asianduck888 » 21 November 2021, 15:33

I think LGBTQ community will hate me. I don't agree with non-binary view.
the universe become older and its ridiculous when people get angry when someone mistaken their gender. male identified as girl, girl identified as guy. People can't change their gender, even they cut their PP or do surgery.

I wish we can reverse the time, when we only see Male and Female as gender. thats my opinion, please don't hate me.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby pozzie » 21 November 2021, 21:33

If a person is unable to change his or her gender, then how is it that parents and doctors can 'decide' an intersexed child's gender?

If by being unable to change one's gender we are referring to the chromosomal markers that determine/influence gender, then we have to start by admitting that there are more possible results than XX and XY, for example XXY and XYY. Additionally, and this is way beyond my current level of knowledge, but I have read where there are specific genes that affect sexual characteristics beyond the basic chromosomal pairings. Even if I could, I think going into the specifics would be beyond the scope of our discussion.

While I'm not a huge fan of micro-describing gender identification, until such time as society and science catch up with the reality of the human genome and all the variations it can provide through natural variation, I'm reluctant to say it is obvious which of only two genders an individual is. "Only two genders" is entirely retrograde thinking which is NOT based on current scientific understanding.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby rogonandi » 21 November 2021, 21:52

^ There actually is an XXY genetic construct of a human but that’s known as Klinefelter syndrome. :glasses:
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby Brenden » 22 November 2021, 13:57

pozzie wrote:If a person is unable to change his or her gender, then how is it that parents and doctors can 'decide' an intersexed child's gender?

Sex is observed at birth, sometimes wrongly. However, only 0.05% of newborns have ambiguous genitalia.

Doctors and parents mis-gendering their intersex patients/children, or forcing a gender at odds with their biology, has led to a lot of suffering, especially during and after puberty. Sometimes in the past doctors would cut off the penis of an ambiguous male whose testicles were hidden inside and the parents would raise the poor child as a girl; many victims of that went on to kill themselves after puberty.

pozzie wrote:If by being unable to change one's gender we are referring to the chromosomal markers that determine/influence gender, then we have to start by admitting that there are more possible results than XX and XY, for example XXY and XYY.

'Before we can say that humans are bipedal animals with brains, we have to account for the fact that some humans are born without one or both legs and some are born without brains. That must mean that the human species isn't bipedal and brains are optional!'

I hope you can see how stupid an argument that is.

pozzie wrote:Additionally, and this is way beyond my current level of knowledge, but I have read where there are specific genes that affect sexual characteristics beyond the basic chromosomal pairings. Even if I could, I think going into the specifics would be beyond the scope of our discussion.

There is variation in males and females. Some men have more masculine features and some more feminine, and vice versa with women. This is often genetic. That doesn't mean that humans are not a sexually dimorphic species.

pozzie wrote:While I'm not a huge fan of micro-describing gender identification, until such time as society and science catch up with the reality of the human genome and all the variations it can provide through natural variation, I'm reluctant to say it is obvious which of only two genders an individual is. "Only two genders" is entirely retrograde thinking which is NOT based on current scientific understanding.

Humans are sexually dimorphic. That is the scientific understanding. Gender is a concept in linguistics where human sex is mapped to words, with the inclusion of a "neither" option called neuter. It is only in the last half century or so that this concept from language has been taken and used by post-modernist philosophers and social "scientists" as a way to describe tertiary sexual characteristics and behaviours and their interaction with society.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby asianduck888 » 22 November 2021, 16:15

pozzie wrote:If a person is unable to change his or her gender, then how is it that parents and doctors can 'decide' an intersexed child's gender?

If by being unable to change one's gender we are referring to the chromosomal markers that determine/influence gender, then we have to start by admitting that there are more possible results than XX and XY, for example XXY and XYY. Additionally, and this is way beyond my current level of knowledge, but I have read where there are specific genes that affect sexual characteristics beyond the basic chromosomal pairings. Even if I could, I think going into the specifics would be beyond the scope of our discussion.

While I'm not a huge fan of micro-describing gender identification, until such time as society and science catch up with the reality of the human genome and all the variations it can provide through natural variation, I'm reluctant to say it is obvious which of only two genders an individual is. "Only two genders" is entirely retrograde thinking which is NOT based on current scientific understanding.


NO one can change people gender in intersexed gender, even the child itself can't decide. our body decide our gender.

our body has show all the sign of sex characteristic, we just need to see the pattern genome, gonad and genitals. for example if people confuse too see PP, then see the chromosome and gonad. for the more accurate method , see if he/see able to pregnant or not. Yes, specific genes can affect some hormone production, for example woman with facial hair still biologically identified as a women she can't identified as man, or man who can produce milk he can't identified as women.

two gender view is not retrograde, nowadays I think human reproduction understanding already advance. even without so advance understanding people can decide the gender if people can pregnant its a girl, if not its a male. there is no one can produce egg and sperm at the same body then he/she can decide their gender.

I think all of this gender identified thingi is become an excuse for some people to validating their subjective view. there is some cases in Male trans to women married to guy, I feel sad for the guy whose being fooled to this marriage when he dreaming to have wife and biological child. or man identified as woman to compete at sport in women category. I think its okay their subjective view stay in their mind and don't need validating from others. I am ok to have trans friend but i still see their biological gender.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby stevie1400 » 22 November 2021, 18:28

With the exception of intersex people (which is rare), people are either male or female. Simple as that.

I have always acknowledged the existence of Gender Dysphoria, a medical condition which means, to put it bluntly, a male thinks they are female, or vice versa, which can be treated by hormones and surgery. Although due to differences in chromosomes, you cannot truly change sex. You can just do as much as you can with the surgery.

Something I refuse to acknowledge is these popular 'neither gender' or 'somewhere in between gender' or 'mostly male but not quite' etc etc.

rogonandi wrote:^ There actually is an XXY genetic construct of a human but that’s known as Klinefelter syndrome. :glasses:


Given that some [silly] people think Autism is a gender (as opposed a psychiatric disorder), maybe Klinefelter syndrome can be a new gender as well :). It would certainly make more sense as a gender than Autism would, given that its related to chromosomes.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby PopTart » 22 November 2021, 19:34

It's not unusual for young people to hold off on ascribing to a specific identity and for them to "try on different hats" as they journey through life, trying to understand who they are.

In that context, I tend to agree with Derk that, there isn't much point getting bothered by kids not having a clear or well defined sense of gender identity or picking random ones that, might not make alot of sense to people who have never had such uncertainty about their identity.

On the other hand, I most definately ascribe to the biological reality of our species and gender dimorphism, including that men and women are different in very clear, physical and sometimes even psychological terms and that not everything to do with gender is actually a social construct.

So much of the confusion around things lile non binary etc, is that people get muddled over the distinction between biological sex and social gender.

Even people who advance new ideas and philosophical principles, seem to get abit confused around the topic.

So if one is feeling abit nonplussed, that is fine. It means your in the same boat as most everyone else.
Last edited by PopTart on 22 November 2021, 19:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby PopTart » 22 November 2021, 19:47

stevie1400 wrote:I have always acknowledged the existence of Gender Dysphoria, a medical condition which means, to put it bluntly, a male thinks they are female, or vice versa, which can be treated by hormones and surgery. Although due to differences in chromosomes, you cannot truly change sex. You can just do as much as you can with the surgery.

It's a rather sad reality that changes are cosmetic and I suspect for some, that is enough and I know that for others it's not.

stevie1400 wrote:Something I refuse to acknowledge is these popular 'neither gender' or 'somewhere in between gender' or 'mostly male but not quite' etc etc.
it's worth noting that non binary, is less about being neither sex (in a biological sense) and more about not conforming to societal expectations of any gender (social gender)

Contrary to modern thinking, this isn't new. Indeed, for decades atleast, if you ever heard someone say "That girl is very masculine" it's likely that the person being referenced, might today, be regarded as non binary, might even have identified as such. The mere distinction of masculine and feminine as something that can be ascribed as seperate from male and female, highlights that those that walk a line between genders has always existed and have always been recognised by wider society.

It's only that modern thinking has latched onto these distinctions, and imagined it a new discovery and more importantly, the fixation upon these distinctions and the need to define and categorise them, for political purpose, that has really brought them to the fore in social and political discourse.

None of this is new.

Nor need it be a cause for much concern.

What is worrying, is the desire to conflate social gender (a social construct) with biological gender (a physical reality)
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby pozzie » 22 November 2021, 22:50

Okay, I'm happy to set the social construct portion of the discussion aside since that's different, but want to see if I get the gist of what was said to rebut my earlier argument, and I'll summarize: humans are either male or female. Those are the only possibilities genetically. Nothing else is possible. All genetic possibilities will fall either to one or the other.

Or did I misread something?
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby Brenden » 22 November 2021, 23:19

pozzie wrote:Okay, I'm happy to set the social construct portion of the discussion aside since that's different, but want to see if I get the gist of what was said to rebut my earlier argument, and I'll summarize: humans are either male or female. Those are the only possibilities genetically. Nothing else is possible. All genetic possibilities will fall either to one or the other.

Or did I misread something?

The human species is sexually dimorphic. It has two sexes because it has two kinds of gametes (sexual reproduction cells, the egg and the sperm). This is determined by the presence a Y chromosome — XXY and XYY males are males, and X and XXX females are females. Although they are aberrations which cause disorders in the human body-system ranging from mild (like more acne for XYY males) to severe and debilitating.

So-called "intersex" people are either chromosomally male or female, but they have ambiguous genitalia at birth (like males with very tiny clitoris-like penis and a vagina-like cavity and recessed testicles).
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby Derek » 22 November 2021, 23:51

Brenden wrote:Humans are sexually dimorphic. That is the scientific understanding. Gender is a concept in linguistics where human sex is mapped to words, with the inclusion of a "neither" option called neuter. It is only in the last half century or so that this concept from language has been taken and used by post-modernist philosophers and social "scientists" as a way to describe tertiary sexual characteristics and behaviours and their interaction with society.

A variety of cultures throughout history have had a concept of a third, fourth, or non-gender. It's a relatively new concept in our culture, but then so is the idea of sexual orientation.
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Re: Weird "genders" and "sexualities"

Unread postby Brenden » 23 November 2021, 01:52

Derek wrote:
Brenden wrote:Humans are sexually dimorphic. That is the scientific understanding. Gender is a concept in linguistics where human sex is mapped to words, with the inclusion of a "neither" option called neuter. It is only in the last half century or so that this concept from language has been taken and used by post-modernist philosophers and social "scientists" as a way to describe tertiary sexual characteristics and behaviours and their interaction with society.

A variety of cultures throughout history have had a concept of a third, fourth, or non-gender. It's a relatively new concept in our culture, but then so is the idea of sexual orientation.

Mhm. Eunuchs have existed in certain cultures, that is true. We humans can be a barbarous peoples sometimes.

Often just another way homosexuals have been persecuted and othered, or intersex people have had their lives determined for them.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... itive=true
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