Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby TenTwentyFive » 5 December 2016, 21:26

He's the anti-politician.

First non-politician president we've had, since George Washington, anyway.

Given the right voter atmosphere, that's enough all by itself.

But as mentioned, "we" ran a horrible candidate.

Fucking idiot Democrats. A Danny O'Day ventriloquist's dummy with a missing monocle and left foot could have defeated Trump. Cannot fucking believe Hilary Clinton is the idiot they chose.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby TenTwentyFive » 5 December 2016, 21:27

Bernie would have won.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Brenden » 5 December 2016, 22:52

TenTwentyFive wrote:First non-politician president we've had, since George Washington, anyway.

Eisenhower.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby TenTwentyFive » 5 December 2016, 22:59

Brenden wrote:
TenTwentyFive wrote:First non-politician president we've had, since George Washington, anyway.

Eisenhower.


Nice catch.. indeed. He was at least a bureaucrat and established within American politics, though. Trump is a fucking reality television personality.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Brenden » 5 December 2016, 23:28

TenTwentyFive wrote:
Brenden wrote:
TenTwentyFive wrote:First non-politician president we've had, since George Washington, anyway.

Eisenhower.

Nice catch.. indeed. He was at least a bureaucrat and established within American politics, though. Trump is a fucking reality television personality.

I would say Washington was pretty established within the politics of his time too. ;)

I think making such a comparison between Trump and Washington is both factually wrong, disgraceful to Washington, and puts Trump on a pedestal.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Iago » 6 December 2016, 00:52

Folks the real tragedy of the American election is that I haven't been able to give a shit about my own country's politics for the last two months.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby katzgar » 3 October 2019, 10:47

We have a cultural divide. Partly trumps rise is based on relatively uneducated factory workers being angry at the loss of their jobs or globalization. Partly it is homophobes and racists angry at things like Obamas presidency and gay marriage. In the end the trump people will be greatly diminished as they die off and civility will rule.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 6 October 2019, 12:09

Trump’s Presidency isn’t so much symptomatic of cultural divides and class stereotypes. It’s politics on a global scale not adapting to meet the needs of the citizens of the world and the subsequent disillusionment that causes.

I don’t think there’s anyone queuing to call Trump a learned or wise man, but he’s not an idiot and the continuing tendency of high minded liberalism to dismiss him out of hand as an idiot is fuelling his success. Like him or hate him, Trump is a great salesman. He can sell you an idea as a feeling and he does it through incredibly effective and structured communication. Trump strips syllables from sentences and favours rhythm over specificity. What he says sticks in your head for rhythmic reasons, not intellectual ones, because music is a universal process in the brain and leveraging that process makes messaging stick. It works in education and he’s showing that it’s a great political asset. He restructures sentences to end on repeated buzzwords, often at the expense of the structure of the sentence being a little clumsy. All he cares about is that the sentence ends well. When everything is one or two syllables, you stop paying as much attention to it, it’s just going in one ear and out the other. With the simple rhythmic tools and repetition of buzzwords, things stick on the way through without you even meaning them to.

Politicians have traditionally been people that have portrayed themselves as very clever, very qualified people who are obviously better than some guy of the street to represent you in government. More and more, because of the failings of politics to adapt, these politicians struggle to achieve what they promise and the electorate is moving to associate intellectualism with ineffectiveness. Trump leverages this. If Trump could, he would never use more than one or two syllables. He wants his language to be simple and comprehensible because he wants you to perceive him as simple and comprehensible. He makes no effort to seem smarter than you as the voter, he focuses on you seeing him as better than other candidates whilst allowing you to feel as smart or smarter than him. If you’re his equal, the little buzzword and messages that he has planted in your head almost seem to be your own ideas. He doesn’t want to seem intellectual because people are moving away from that. They’ve tried that and it isn’t working for them. He’s seen an opportunity, and like any great salesman he’s presented himself to it and is now selling himself to the broadest common denominators he can.

Trump isn’t the fault of the American electorate. Trump is a symptom of modern politics failing on a global level, he just presented himself as a response to it. The way he did it was very clever and very effective. It’s why he’ll win again in 2020, likely without the backing of the majority of Americans. Because the system isn’t fit for purpose anymore. Until it changes, people like Trump are going to become more and more common in the political sphere.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 6 October 2019, 16:08

Marmaduke wrote:I don’t think there’s anyone queuing to call Trump a learned or wise man, but he’s not an idiot and the continuing tendency of high minded liberalism to dismiss him out of hand as an idiot is fuelling his success. Like him or hate him, Trump is a great salesman.

He has a perverse talent, but he is a fucking idiot, and the people who love him are also idiots.

I agree that the high-minded liberal approach of saying "How dare you!" over and over doesn't work, but still. It takes absolutely no intellect and no vision to become a demogogue to the ~30% of the population that is a bunch of hooting hogs.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 6 October 2019, 16:43

I’m telling your mother.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Eryx » 6 October 2019, 18:47

Derek wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:I don’t think there’s anyone queuing to call Trump a learned or wise man, but he’s not an idiot and the continuing tendency of high minded liberalism to dismiss him out of hand as an idiot is fuelling his success. Like him or hate him, Trump is a great salesman.
He has a perverse talent, but he is a fucking idiot, and the people who love him are also idiots.

I agree that the high-minded liberal approach of saying "How dare you!" over and over doesn't work, but still. It takes absolutely no intellect and no vision to become a demogogue to the ~30% of the population that is a bunch of hooting hogs.
The talent of being a great salesman doesn't translate to intelligence. The director of the company I worked for up until last year was extremely captivating, but it was only at the surface level. He was an absolute moron with no ability to truly run a company, hence its demise. I feel like Americans actually kind of lucked out with their puppet, at least he's got business skills and is very conniving. My president is simply atrocious. Not intelligent, not a salesman, good-for-nothing homophobe piece of shit, whose only accomplishment was to survive Congress for enough years to retire at top salary without ever contributing to the Brazilian society. He's such an awful person I can't even begin to rank out the absurdities he has said so far without feeling angry. I'd go to jail for killing him.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 6 October 2019, 18:50

poolerboy0077 wrote:I’m telling your mother.

She doesn't love him, she's just a republican.

That's where the actual genius comes in. It's the republican establishment capitalizing on Trump's appeal to said hogs to do the same things they always do.

As far as republican presidents go, Trump hasn't done half as much damage as Bush, so maybe it's worth the embarrassment of having him in office.

Eryx wrote:The talent of being a great salesman doesn't translate to intelligence. The director of the company I worked for up until last year was extremely captivating, but it was only at the surface level. He was an absolute moron with no ability to truly run a company, hence its demise. I feel like Americans actually kind of lucked out with their puppet, at least he's got business skills and is very conniving. My president is simply atrocious. Not intelligent, not a salesman, good-for-nothing homophobe piece of shit, whose only accomplishment was to survive Congress for enough years to retire at top salary without ever contributing to the Brazilian society. He's such an awful person I can't even begin to rank out the absurdities he has said so far without feeling angry. I'd go to jail for killing him.

Yeah, I've heard people describe Bolsonaro described as Brazil's Trump, but I don't think that the case at all. He's more like Brazil's Duterte and that bodes much worse for you guys.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby katzgar » 6 October 2019, 18:52

The massive amount of anti-gay executive orders coming from trump is a shitload more than embarrassing
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Eryx » 6 October 2019, 18:56

Derek wrote:Yeah, I've heard people describe Bolsonaro described as Brazil's Trump, but I don't think that the case at all. He's more like Brazil's Duterte and that bodes much worse for you guys.
The thing that lets me sleep is the fact that I do truly believe that, despite all of his shortcomings, he's respectful of our democracy. If he gets ousted, he'll pass the banner on and take it as it is. The issue is that our left is in shambles, there's no one to take Lula's place, no one can agree on anything and I don't think there's enough time for all the groups to unify against his reelection. In fact, I think we're becoming more and more segregated. There will need to be a massive shock for the Brazilian society to go left again. And it sucks. The dollar is 1 to 4. For perspective, it was 1.60 when I was in Colorado and met you guys at GTF. It's brutal!

And now I just realized how entitled I am lol. Talking about international travel while in Brazil... Well, we've each got our problems, right?
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Marmaduke » 7 October 2019, 17:27

So, I all but praise Trump and he goes and posts this on twitter. So throughly has he contradicted everything that I said about him in such fucking staggering fashion that I kinda have to agree with the high-minded liberals that I dismissed out of hand.

He is an idiot.

I was wrong.

I, too, am an idiot.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 7 October 2019, 18:16

That was the tweet that broke the camel's back?
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby NvM » 8 October 2019, 10:46

trump was not elected by the popular vote.
US elections are decided by only a few percentage points. Who says your vote dosnt count
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby NvM » 11 October 2019, 20:34

Obama Care turned some voters republican.
US elections are typically called on only a few percentage points.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Jzone » 11 October 2019, 21:35

Derek wrote:That was the tweet that broke the camel's back?


Was this the face that launched a thousand shits?

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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 11 October 2019, 22:07

NvM wrote:Who says your vote dosnt count

People whose presidents aren't elected by popular vote? Did you forget the first sentence of your post?
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