Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby MattPSmith » 21 January 2020, 15:44

Sullivan wrote:
MattPSmith wrote:Im Australian

Of course you are.


I don't get it, do you not believe I'm australian or was that an insult based on my nationality?
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 22 January 2020, 19:36

Derek wrote:It's super great how America doesn't have the same social benefits and economic safety nets as every other rich nation and then the president comes on stage and tells us we need another ten trillion to fight the immigrant caravan.

Why should my hard-earned money go to taking care of Consuela and Sharkesha who are just going to sit around all day doing nothing but living like royalty off the rest of us. Also, something something black on black crime something something. I won’t apologize for being white!

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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 27 January 2020, 21:31

Blow: "Nowadays even Liam can release an album of his screechy vocals and it'll probably go #1..."
Ramzus: I can admit that I'm horny just about 24/7
homomorphism: I used to not think your name was deshay and that Erick was just being racist
Hunter: sometimes I think I was literally born to be a pornstar
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Brenden » 27 January 2020, 21:42

"By Ezra Klein"

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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 28 January 2020, 00:10


I have to go do the jerk-off motion til I get carpal tunnel.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 28 January 2020, 04:14

Do it under my pants.

Okay so we all know you want a revolution or whatever because being an INFP means you’re an hysterical queen about everything now, but what about that was unreasonable?
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 28 January 2020, 04:44

The entire premise is that politics are the way they are and all the parties can do is conform to preexisting patterns to try to gain a majority of voters. It's blinkered and short-sighted in the fashion of 100% of liberals who can't conceive of a progressive alternative to their own politics. It wasn't that long ago that the South was a democratic stronghold, for reasons that have all but disappeared from the American consciousness. They can't imagine the voting blocs existing in any other configuration.

It also seems self-evidently wrong to suggest that democrats need the center when A: Sanders beats Trump in polls, B: the center cannot by definition exist closer to one party than the other, and C: winning over suburban moderates was Hillary's whole strategy and every single one of them was holding down a hard-on as they voted for Trump.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby John27 » 28 January 2020, 23:14

Derek wrote:winning over suburban moderates was Hillary's whole strategy and every single one of them was holding down a hard-on as they voted for Trump.


Not just Hillary's strategy. A lot of Democrats and Democratic strategists liked this idea in 2016--and still like it today. I think (but can't remember for sure) that I read articles saying that in Pennsylvania a belief that they could afford to lose working class voters because they'd pick up so many more moderates or something like that. (As I say, I don't remember for certain.) Trump won PA.

I heard one progressive commentator say that in an election when you have a case of a Democrat trying to Republican Lite Moderate, and you have a real Republican, then the Republican will win. (I'm sure there are exceptions. But I remember hearing this discussed after the 2018 election, when several Democratic senators who did the "I'll be moderate" lost their position--there were at least 3 I remember. Only one, Joe Manchin actually won.)
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby mxguy01 » 1 February 2020, 05:13

The saga continues. Big names named...
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby TommyB60 » 25 February 2020, 11:55

Nice to read something with a heart and a brain. Bravo.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby ThatNomad » 22 June 2020, 21:35

As the son of a Trump supporter who would likely proudly proclaim himself a White Christian Nationalist, if he were intelligent enough to string the three words together and actually understand the concepts behind them, I have to say all three concepts from the beginning of the post were at play. Trump stoked the fires of irrationality, and hate present in the worst, most phobic enclaves in our society. He also pandered to their belief that the left is out to take everything they value away, and enforce some sort of PC code on everyone in the country, simply because minority groups of all stripes are no longer willing to sit quietly and be treated like second class citizens.

When it comes to Hilary I just think she was the wrong candidate to put up against someone who had no problem using whatever fear mongering techniques he could think of to manipulate the gullible in our society into following his hateful rhetoric, and get sucked into his rather juvenile world of fear and paranoia fueled nationalism. She is not well-liked enough even in most Democratic circles for her to have had a hope in the world of swinging the Electorate in her favor against someone capable of stirring up a fervor like Trump is.

It's sad, but true, that in the history of the U.S. it's the lowest common denominators that often end up upsetting the best laid plans of mice and men. We saw that for a fact in Trumps election, when the ignorant, the racists, the phobic, and the zealots came out en mass, and won the election for a failed business man with no political experience, and no apparent moral/ethical compass. Here's hoping it won't happen again in the next election, because I honestly don't know what will become of the Union should he get another four years.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 23 June 2020, 02:09

ThatNomad wrote:I have to say all three concepts from the beginning of the post were at play.

It's funny you mention that, because I was just thinking about how much my perspective has changed since 2016. I believe all three concepts were at play too, but more than anything I think we overestimated how much of a departure Trump was from values of the American electorate. Political correctness was always negotiable; fears concerning globalism (when coming from the right) are just a smokescreen for white angst, which is omnipresent; and Hillary wasn't just personally unpopular, but a shining avatar of the utter bloodlessness of liberal politics.

Trump isn't the president we needed, but he's absolutely the one we deserved.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 24 June 2020, 04:55

Give us your most scathing review of capitalism and of white people. Don’t be afraid to draw blood.

I’ll get the popcorn....
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby Derek » 24 June 2020, 05:10

Capitalism and white people are the two forces which took a proud Mexican family a produced a Boba-swilling lib who covertly jerks off under the table at Panera to videos of boy bands on his laptop.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby abmis » 24 June 2020, 06:29

Wow! It's good to know that there are some non-straight people who think independently and don't follow the left-winged narrative. I'm not against liberals nor am I a conservative, but it's just refreshing to hear that there are some people with different viewpoints.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby ThatNomad » 24 June 2020, 11:47

I actually have to agree with you on that Abmis. It is good to know. For far too long most of the people I met in the LGBTQ community were straight up Democrats, and voted party over anything. I never really understood that. Even when the person was clearly unfit to be in office, they still voted, because, well, Democrat, amiright?

If someone can't be bothered to actually get involved, and learn about a candidate, their voting history, what they say they stand for (Not that you can trust it, but still, better to know), and what kind of person they present themselves to be, why even bother?

And, Derek, I completely agree that Trump was the president we deserved. We, as a country had grown far too complacent about the injustices being done in this country, to various minority groups at the hands of the alt-right, neo-cons, white supremacists, and the conservative evangelical Christians. Trump fanned those flames of hatred, discrimination, and oppression to an all-time high, and showed every citizen of this country just what has been going on, in a way they cannot ignore. We will have his utterly despicable term as President to thank for forcing it all out into the open so we can deal with it.

Let's also not forget that he's a radical departure even from the Republican "values" as he has no actual values, per se. He is a vain, narcissistic individual who will pick up a tagline, or a talking point, or even a belief system, only long enough to stroke the egos of those he is hoping to curry favor with, and then drop it when it no longer suits him. He is a chameleon in that way, able to fool the gullible people in the U.S. into thinking he's working for them, that he's trying to increase their freedoms, and make this country "Great" again. While I have never agreed with the strong traditionalist bent of the Republican party, I grew up around mostly Republicans, and before Trump came along most of them were really upstanding people, and many of them wouldn't even vote straight party, but they all had the courage of their convictions about the political party they chose. I just really don't understand how he swindled them into believing he was one of them.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby abmis » 24 June 2020, 15:47

Wonderfully said ThatNomad! We should vote for people in office for their merits, accomplishments, and well-thought out policy goals (Which is something that's missing for most politicians). I grew up in a very liberal household. Hence, being an ethnic minority, growing up poor, and living in southern California. I mean, it's extremely rare to not be a conservative with that kind of background. So, with that being said, Trump does have his flaws, and has definitely committed political malpractice. Sometimes he needs to be wary of what he says. Recent polls from even most Republicans are disfavoring him. This might change the tides for the 2020 Presidential Election. However, on the other side of the spectrum, we have good ol' Joe Biden. My first thought is, "Really?" Oh gosh, it's another story about how much I loathe him! Anyways, Obama hasn't done much to improve the economy and ease racial and minority tensions during his presidency. Trump has done a better job with that, and the data shows. So yeah, we've got Trump and Biden. They're both nutjobs in their own ways, but there is clearly no contest if you boil it down. Trump would be the most tolerable and competent in my opinion. Just so that everyone knows, I've never voted Republican my entire life, so it's quite amazing how opinions can shift over time for some people. Although, it could be because I'm relatively young at 26. Idk, lol.
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Re: Which of these two narratives do you think explains Trump's rise?

Unread postby ThatNomad » 24 June 2020, 18:03

I dislike both option. But I feel like Biden would be safer for us on the global arena. Another four years of Trump and it may take us decades, or longer, to recover from the loss of faith of our allies, and other nations around the globe. He has been an unmitigated disaster in just about every way possible, and has taken us from a superpower on the world scene to a sideshow. Also, I'd be really curious to see the data you speak of in regards to the economy. Everything I've seen, heard, or looked at has shown the exact opposite to be the case, but I am fully capable of changing my opinion when given evidence.

Only one thing I will say that I absolutely repudiate within what you said. Donald Trump has done nothing but fan the flames of tension in regards to ethnic and minority groups since taking office. From his apparent goal of stripping LGBTQ people of all they've achieved, to his appeals to white supremacy, his call on police to shoot people in the streets during the initial explosion of protests and riots, and even his "Muslim Ban" attempts, he's shown himself to be an absolute enemy to anyone that might be Other than a white, Christian evangelical, capitalist, preferably male.
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