Why do most gays vote democrat?

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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 16 July 2020, 23:34

abmis wrote:You should also hold them and Obama accountable too for bailing out corporations. When it comes to that, it;s deep than a party issue.

I do. I am significantly to the left of Obama and Clinton.

abmis wrote:HOWEVER, that's a very simplistic view. From a global standard, everyone on this forum, particularly if you're from the West, IS PART OF THE 1%! It's a simplistic analysis to start finger wagging at the 1% as a North American when clearly, if we start opening our eyes and stop getting emotional, we're actually more wealthier than we all realize.

From a "global standard", the 1% already controls 99% of the wealth, and it's getting worse at a blistering pace. What the fuck is your point, dude? That I'm a member of the economic elite which perpetuates exploitative global capitalism and therefore any criticism I make of wealth inequality in invalid? All parts of that are impossibly stupid.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Sullivan » 16 July 2020, 23:41

Don't be so willfully blind, Derek. He's insightfully pointing out that the real problem here is how few of us behave as the elites we truly are.

Now, come, join me in my kiddie pool of caviar.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 16 July 2020, 23:56

You're always trying to seduce me into abandoning my principles. Truly, you are the Eve to my Adam, the Delilah to my Samson, the Pandora to my box.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 00:09

Well I tried Derek. Lol. I'm not trying to insult in any way, but you're too ideologically possessed. You're clearly not open to different viewpoints. Granted, your views do have some validity though. I understand your frustration about wealth inequality, but I just think there's a different way of approaching it. I think a more realistic goal is to help eradicate poverty of all kinds, rather than finger wagging and waving ethical flags at the 1% which ultimately won't do anything. We do have more wealthier people nowadays, but with that, absolute poverty has PLUMMETED! That's AMAZING! More people from Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia are rising out of poverty and entering the middle class. We should be dancing on the street and singing "Twist & Shout" from the Beatles! Even if one is poor in America, you'll generally still be OK, roughly speaking. My personal and moral take on this issue: Feel fortunate for what you have, and if you want to make genuine change in the world, then start with your personal life. For Example, make realistic goals, develop better relationships with your sibling(s) or significant others. I mean, it sounds silly and insulting, but at least those are realistic changes anyone can do, and nobody's going to pat on the back and congratulate you. However, if people are going to keep pointing fingers at complex social systems and the vaguely corrupt 1%, then it will only lead to resentment. If the average person can't fix the computation systems in their automobile, then what makes people think that they can easily change complex social systems? The latter is FAR MORE COMPLICATED than the first!
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Magic J » 17 July 2020, 00:15

abmis wrote:Now, a left-winger in the American sense is someone who generally supports equality before the law for all, and providing a voice and empowering those who are dispossessed in society, so they can be back on their feet. Noble pursuits! I think that's beatiful!

Ah, okay, I think I understand. I get the feeling that you're working from a Left = Noble but Idealistic; Right = Harsh but Practical sort of perspective?

So, I'd invite you to consider some left positions which you might find more substantive! Your quick definition seems to miss out something fundamental to what I regard as "left wing stances": the criticism of capitalist systems (which are currently in quite bad shape :P) and alternative proposals for how we organise society. Leftism is the rejection, to a greater or lesser extent, of capitalistic economies, but many people in the US who are left wing essentially aim to ameliorate the worst effects of this economic system, through policies such as socialising medicine so nobody goes without a certain standard of care, taxing very wealthy individuals and corporations so they pay their fair share, improving workers pay and conditions, and providing for citizens' basic needs if they themselves are rendered unable to do so (through losing their job, for instance).

I'm sure you'll agree that, whatever your opinion on these issues, this is not what could ever be described as airy fairy idealistic nonsense, but rather quite substantive economic policy which has been found very much workable elsewhere.

Oh, also anti-racism and all that equally important stuff, but we can take it one step at a time, comrade. :P
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 17 July 2020, 00:23

Jesus Christ.

abmis wrote:Well I tried Derek. Lol. I'm not trying to insult in any way, but you're too ideologically possessed. You're clearly not open to different viewpoints. Granted, your views do have some validity though. I understand your frustration about wealth inequality

I also mentioned impending environmental collapse and perpetual imperial warfare.

abmis wrote:but I just think there's a different way of approaching it.

You haven't done anything except defend republicans for reasons you have not articulated.

abmis wrote:I think a more realistic goal is to help eradicate poverty of all kinds, rather than finger wagging and waving ethical flags at the 1% which ultimately won't do anything.

I don't think we should wag our fingers at them, I think we should confiscate their wealth and reform the structure of our economy.

abmis wrote:We do have more wealthier people nowadays, but with that, absolute poverty has PLUMMETED! That's AMAZING! More people from Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia are rising out of poverty and entering the middle class.

And for some reason you think this is a reason why we shouldn't criticize our political order?

abmis wrote:Feel fortunate for what you have, and if you want to make genuine change in the world, then start with your personal life. For Example, make realistic goals, develop better relationships with your sibling(s) or significant others. I mean, it sounds silly and insulting, but at least those are realistic changes anyone can do, and nobody's going to pat on the back and congratulate you.

Buddy, you have no fucking idea what my life is like, and it's not relevant.

abmis wrote:However, if people are going to keep pointing fingers at complex social systems and the vaguely corrupt 1%, then it will only lead to resentment. If the average person can't fix the computation systems in their automobile, then what makes people think that they can easily change complex social systems? The latter is FAR MORE COMPLICATED than the first!

What the fuck are you talking about? I can't have political opinions until I learn how to fix a car? Fucking what? I'm not the one being vague here. Moreover, I'm not the one whose only opinion on anything seems to be that it's... unethical?... to point out how they fall short. What a fucking simp.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 00:44

Of course you're entitled to have your own opinions. Also, if you haven't noticed, I've stated MULTIPLE TIMES that there is great utility for being a Democrat! I also partially agree with Republicans because values like personal responsibility, the choices one makes in life, and hierarchies are all important elements in stabilizing society. Republicans acknowledge that humans are flawed from day one, and the most sensible way to handle the difficulties in life and society is through a matter of better trade offs because life isn't fair. We can't make society perfect nor ideal, but we can make it better. Makes sense to me! In regards to the car thing? I was being metaphorical. I'm not saying that there isn't a place to exercise activism and questioning political order, but don't you think if you want to make any sort of slight positive change of any kind, that it's better to talk to the other side, because whether you hate it or not about 50% DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU! Pretty darn hard to make any sort of change, if you don't involve them. That't why it's important to have a CIVIL DIALOGUE and try to reach some sort of middle ground where at least MOST people can benefit, so then we can change systems. Republicans don't believe in NO CHANGE, they just want gradual change.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 17 July 2020, 00:56

Derek wrote:Buddy, you have no fucking idea what my life is like, and it's not relevant.

I’m pretty sure it involves lots of cats and binge watching The Price is Right.
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Ramzus: I can admit that I'm horny just about 24/7
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 01:16

Magic J wrote:
abmis wrote:Now, a left-winger in the American sense is someone who generally supports equality before the law for all, and providing a voice and empowering those who are dispossessed in society, so they can be back on their feet. Noble pursuits! I think that's beatiful!

Ah, okay, I think I understand. I get the feeling that you're working from a Left = Noble but Idealistic; Right = Harsh but Practical sort of perspective?

So, I'd invite you to consider some left positions which you might find more substantive! Your quick definition seems to miss out something fundamental to what I regard as "left wing stances": the criticism of capitalist systems (which are currently in quite bad shape :P) and alternative proposals for how we organise society. Leftism is the rejection, to a greater or lesser extent, of capitalistic economies, but many people in the US who are left wing essentially aim to ameliorate the worst effects of this economic system, through policies such as socialising medicine so nobody goes without a certain standard of care, taxing very wealthy individuals and corporations so they pay their fair share, improving workers pay and conditions, and providing for citizens' basic needs if they themselves are rendered unable to do so (through losing their job, for instance).

I'm sure you'll agree that, whatever your opinion on these issues, this is not what could ever be described as airy fairy idealistic nonsense, but rather quite substantive economic policy which has been found very much workable elsewhere.

Oh, also anti-racism and all that equally important stuff, but we can take it one step at a time, comrade. :P


Actually, I'm mostly in favor of those policies, but with some twists. I'm generally pro-capitalist, and I do believe that some regulation is necessary. And yes! I absolutely believe that there should be a social safety net for citizens and not for corporations. I don't agree with socialized medicine. I'm in favor of improving working conditions, but worker's pay is a bit more complicated, which is a whole other topic I could write about. Lol. I also believe that rich people and corporations should pay higher taxes, but not at a substantial amount.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 17 July 2020, 01:25

abmis wrote:I also partially agree with Republicans because values like personal responsibility, the choices one makes in life, and hierarchies are all important elements in stabilizing society.

And I and others have pointed out multiple how Republican values are hypocritical or fatuous or harmful. You haven't defended your point of view, you've just repeated it.

abmis wrote:Makes sense to me!

I have no doubt.

abmis wrote:hat't why it's important to have a CIVIL DIALOGUE and try to reach some sort of middle ground

I disagree on two counts. For one, I don't think compromise is the goal and the conflation of process with politics goes a long way in explaining how the American left-wing has ceded incredible ground since the New Deal. For another, I don't want to have a civil dialogue with them or you, because your brains are smoother than marble. Uncivil, take it or leave it.

abmis wrote:where at least MOST people can benefit, so then we can change systems. Republicans don't believe in NO CHANGE, they just want gradual change.

They believe in regressive change. It's right there in the name: conservatives. Who opposed abolitionism? Who opposed Civil Rights? Who opposed LGBT equality? Who opposed women's liberation? Who opposes restorative justice for minorities, immigrants, and the disenfranchised? Who platforms their denial of science to the tune of massive body counts? You're apparently too dumb to recognize the pattern here.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 01:52

Haha! You truly are ideologically possessed! You have my pity, even if you don't want to take it. BTW, the KKK was founded by Democrats, It is now Democrats who control the narrative of Anti-Americanism in higher academia, and sometimes the K-12 system. Oh, and pro-science? Hmm, well gee, who's pushing the idea that men and women are the same when clearly they AREN'T biologically and psychologically? Oh, but it's A-OK if we find and cherry pick studies where women are better than men. That there's more than 2 genders? Why isn't BLM talking about Black on Black crime? Who wants to defund the police which will actually HURT minority communities because those calling for help are usually minority victims? Why aren't Democratic politicians condemning looters during the riots and protests AND as part of a significant spread of more COVID cases? Oh, that's right! Blame in-door dining and gyms! I mean, clearly they know that protesting perfectly blocks COVID! Yes, Republicans have done bad things in the past, but so has Democrats. Also, a couple of years back Obama and Hillary Clinton opposed Same-Sex marriage. I guess that slipped your mind. Somehow, they magically found it in their hearts to accept it.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 02:08

Oh, and if you disagree with dialogue, then that is a strong sign that you are anti-free speech! The FACT and REALITY still remains! 50% DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU! You are inadvertently promoting division, rather than unity. That is a hard a pill that you have to swallow. If that doesn't bother you, then just wait, it'll backfire eventually. That worked well for Hillary Clinton as far as I'm concerned, and I voted for her btw. Lol
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 17 July 2020, 02:29

See fellas? All it takes is a bit of prodding before you get the "black on black crime", "biological differences", "free speech", "the Democrats were the anti-black party in the 19th century", "the BLM protests are harmful", and "what about Hillary" even though you've already explained that you aren't a Democrat. Civil dialogue is the trap people try to foist on you when they don't want you to notice the shine of their perfectly smooth brains gleaming out their ears.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 02:37

I'd be super careful Derek. I mean this sincerely because it's people like you with those ideas that are making quite a substantial amount of regular liberals, and non-partisan people vote for Trump. I also find it incredibly disturbing how you oppose civil and open dialogue because the alternative is violence and force. Do you want to be a civilized person and talk things though even though they are unpleasant, or do you want to be an uncivilized savage?
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 17 July 2020, 02:49

Buddy, if calling you a smooth-brain gets you to vote for Trump, all it proves is that you were a disgusting, immoral cretin to begin with. At best, you're an amoral simp whose greatest intellectual contribution to political discourse is "Both parties are great!" At worst, you're a reactionary asshole; the aforementioned dog whistles paint a clear picture. Either way I don't give a fuck.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 03:00

Oh, but why are you attacking a yellow/tan skinned gay Asian man who grew up poor, works in a blue-collar job, and is the child of Southeast Asian parents who fled war to America during the 70s so that they wouldn't get shot by soldiers and escape political chaos? :( I thought you were all about diversity, inclusivity, and open-mindedness. (Look at my Self-Pictures in the Intro section). Congats! You've demonstrated those core values well. :3 (Mwuah) LMAO!
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Sullivan » 17 July 2020, 03:17

Derek wrote:You're always trying to seduce me into abandoning my principles. Truly, you are the Eve to my Adam, the Delilah to my Samson, the Pandora to my box.

No, I'm just trying to have some fun while you shout your principles into the void.

Like really, where's the sport in engaging this person?
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Derek » 17 July 2020, 03:21

Sullivan wrote:No, I'm just trying to have some fun while you shout your principles into the void.

Like really, where's the sport in engaging this person?

I'm doing it all for you. I'd hoped this display of toxic Bernie-bro aggression would get you revved up.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby Sullivan » 17 July 2020, 03:38

Baby if you want to get me revved up stop replying to someone who writes in all caps and join me for a soak in my fancy fish roe before it gets too soupy.
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Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postby abmis » 17 July 2020, 03:39

As I suspected. No comeback. You can't have true diversity and open-mindedness without diversity and open-mindedness of ideas! Nothing personal, I'm not attacking you as a person, but you have to acknowledge that people have different viewpoints, just like some people have high or low metabolisms and some people like their steaks medium rare or well done. We're all different and that's ok. It's also ok to disagree. So no hard feelings?
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