Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

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Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby Fezzzzzzle » 17 January 2022, 21:43

A lot of the ppl I talk to online and ppl I've made friends with have been adults, and I've had feelings for adult males before, but I've never acted on them since ik it can be bad and ppl say it's wrong. My first boyfriend was 17 (which I was with when I was 14), and overall I can't seem to stop being attracted to older guys and adults even when it comes to just making friends.

What should I do from here? Ik most ppl will probably say not to give into any of these urges since it can be dangerous, but do I have to stop making friends with adults or older guys, and if so, how?

Srry if this is against any of the rules here!! Any help would be greatly appreciated though 😓

And ig as an edit:

Do you guys think it's okay for someone my age to be in a relationship with an adult??? Would it be a good or bad idea??
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 17 January 2022, 22:20

Well unfortunately, "adult" includes a wide range of individuals so hanging around with someone who's 22 isn't such a big deal. I think maybe some extra context is needed. Are you finding it difficult to find other LGBTQ+ friends and allies your age? Or do you just find it hard to connect with your peers in general?

You're by far not the first young gay man to have older friends and find himself attracted to older guys. I guess another question is who is making you feel that this older guy thing is an issue and what is their reasoning? Do they differentiate between IRL and online friends?

Honestly, if you have 'normal' friendships with people your own age, I wouldn't worry too much about it. In some ways, it's helpful to be able to talk with people who have a bit more life experience.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby Fezzzzzzle » 17 January 2022, 22:28

pozzie wrote:Well unfortunately, "adult" includes a wide range of individuals so hanging around with someone who's 22 isn't such a big deal. I think maybe some extra context is needed. Are you finding it difficult to find other LGBTQ+ friends and allies your age? Or do you just find it hard to connect with your peers in general?

You're by far not the first young gay man to have older friends and find himself attracted to older guys. I guess another question is who is making you feel that this older guy thing is an issue and what is their reasoning? Do they differentiate between IRL and online friends?

Honestly, if you have 'normal' friendships with people your own age, I wouldn't worry too much about it. In some ways, it's helpful to be able to talk with people who have a bit more life experience.


Well, most of my adult friends are In their late 20s or early 30s, and the ones I had feelings for were in their late 30s early 40s. I have found men even older to be attractive though 😓.

And I haven't really been able to connect with anyone irl who's around my age and is LGBT yeah. And I have always gotten along better with ppl older than me yeah.

When I talk about my old bf with ppl they're usually a bit concerned about the age difference, and a lot ppl I've talked with online think I'm weird for having this attraction (I'm way too embarrassed to tell anyone irl).

Maybe I am just weird though. I really wouldn't mind being in any romantic or sexual relationship with any older adults, but idk if I'm allowed to
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 17 January 2022, 22:51

No, you aren't weird, so let that go. What they are saying is they think it's weird based on their own life experiences and expectations. Don't let them put their expectations on you or make you feel bad for living an authentic life. Yes, there are some age-related issues if you're being sexual with men who are older, but that's more a risk for them. Also, some of this depends on your parents getting upset and deciding to make an issue out of it, or some parental equivalents like teachers.

We all mature differently and some of us are/were 14 going on 40. If you are that sort, then it can be more fulfilling to talk with people who are more mature. I would say that when I was your age, my experience was very similar. I was attracted to men in their 20s and 30s - though at that time I thought 35 about the limit though I didn't card the dudes or anything. Older men were very important for me to start coming to grips with my sexuality, what it means, what I should and shouldn't do, etc. I had to look to them since there simply wasn't anyone else to provide guidance and acceptance.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby PopTart » 18 January 2022, 04:48

You'll find people get concerned about certain types of age gaps.

Especially those that involve someone underage and someone who isn't. It usually comes from a place of concern, but don't let that make you feel judged or ashamed.

As to more significant age gaps, I'd say finish school and then go out and meet people. Don't sweat which ones appeal to you and which ones don't.

There was a time I naturally gravitated to older men (I've only ever had one boyfriend much younger than me) so I don't think that is unusual.

That said, now that I'm middle aged, I find I like guys my age or there abouts.

I actually didn't like being in a relationship with someone considerably younger than myself for alot of reasons (he was a lovely guy, bit it just didn't feel "right") and I doubt I'd like one with anyone considerably older than myself at this point in my life either.

Why explain all this? Because I think the kinds of people we look for, changes with time and as we change.

I don't think it says anything in particular about your character, I think it's just what you like and so long as you have healthy, mutually consenting experiences, then everything is all good.

No need to over analyse who it is you do and don't like. Just let yourself be and other people can mind their own business.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby Marmaduke » 18 January 2022, 12:31

If you’re genuinely connecting with people because you share interests and passions and can have a relationship exist without there being a romantic/sexual element, then I think being open to seeing where that goes is a more reasonable proposition that simply pursuing the company of older men because previous experiences have predominantly been with older men.

If a thing has value platonically, and you want to see if there’s potential for romance, sure. If it doesn’t, do yourself a favour and enjoy the idea of it. Save yourself the disappointment.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby Subra » 20 January 2022, 12:52

He's 16 in America. It's a federal offence.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 20 January 2022, 18:22

Note, I don't know if it was on this board, but I think it was where someone made a distinction of terms for youth attraction. It is worth repeating:

"In research environments, specific terms are used for chronophilia [a form of paraphilia in which an individual experiences sexual attraction limited to individuals of particular age ranges]: for instance,

1) ephebophilia to refer to the sexual preference for mid-to-late adolescents,
2) hebephilia to refer to the sexual preference for earlier pubescent individuals, and
3) pedophilia to refer to the primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children"

While in many countries (including the USA) there are criminal laws against an adult having sex with someone under the age of consent (can vary from country to country). My concern is more about the well being of the minor involved. I too was attracted to certain adult men when I was under age. I was attracted primarily to masculine, muscular, hairy men. However, it wasn't just a physical thing. I also craved the thought of such a man loving me. I never acted on that craving as a minor and I'm GLAD I didn't. Why? Because if their motivation was due to their attraction to a certain youthful age range, I would have been devastated when I had outgrown their age of interest. My emotional wiring was never of the type where I could turn on and off my feelings for another man. Because such adults with such attractions would loose interest at some point, I cannot fathom such a relationship for the minor being in anyway beneficial to the minor -- regardless if the country of the minor has laws on the books against such relationships or not. A loving relationship with some kind of fixed termination date cannot be in anyway to the benefit of the minor who is still trying to figure himself out.

For me personally, another disadvantage is based on most accounts I have read on the subject is that "typically" the roles in this relationship is that the "adult" is the controlling partner and sexually is usually the "top" and the minor is the "bottom"...

While my sexually was somewhat evolving in my youth, certain parts of my orientation in my estimation were already hardwired. While I didn't know about oral sex or anal sex, etc. I did know that somehow I wanted to be "inside" another man. Kind of like I wanted to return to some kind of "male" womb or a merger of souls. From my youth even to this day, I have never had any strong attraction to "cock". Rather, I was attracted to the man that cock was attached to. I have been in a loving monogamous relationship with my partner for over 18.5 years. I love my partners body that includes his cock BECAUSE it is part of him -- not simply because he has a cock.

When I did finally have m2m sex, I was over legal age -- 21.5 years old.. Yet I was still even at that age very naïve. Due to that naivete, I ended up doing things I really didn't want to do. I was suckered into believing that because I wasn't hung, my role in life if I so chose to have m2m sex would be relegated to being a bottom. Now keep in mind in my day there was no internet, no easily accessible gay porn, or any other such resources that would have allowed me to contradict this BS that these "older" men were feeding me.

I was of a mind that any "sin" to homosexuality was that I would leave a rather miserable sex life in order to just have the love of another man that I was craving. Well about 3 years after my first m2m encounter, I had a brief encounter with a guy who let ME finally top. It was a momentous turning point in my sexual evolution. I finally realized just how wonderful m2m sex could be. For a while I was versatile -- thinking that we all had to take the miserable bottom role from time to time so that the other man could experience pleasure. However, over time I realized that even that too was a bad assumption. Some people actually are completely content to bottom and feel sexual fulfillment in that role. I was never a "selfish top": I want my partner to be completely satisfied too. Rather, I simply did not know that male sexuality varies from man to man.

Anyway, I bring this all up because back to my premise that a minor having sex with an adult fixed on a certain age range has an imbalance which holds back the minor both romantically and sexually. In a perfect fantasy world back then, I wish I could have found that perfect partner who would have loved me like a father, older brother, lover. One who would have loved me for a life time, and who would have wanted me inside him all the time when we were intimate which I hoped would be very frequent given my extremely high libido.

That fantasy most likely would never have happened, and I would have simply had a more miserable childhood had I gotten involved with an adult back then. I was very mature for my age (which may have partially explained why I didn't relate to my peers back then), but I was NOT mature in the ways of loving and being loved..

I have to admit that I had some very serious flaws when I was a minor. I was so extremely attracted to men's behinds. I wanted so badly to touch them, to squeeze them, etc.; but I knew if I touched an adult man's behind that I would probably get beaten up. So I had a very bad habit of patting an adult woman's behind which was not appreciated. It was VERY rude and crude. I wish I could go back and apologize to those women.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby PopTart » 20 January 2022, 19:15

NobodySpecial wrote:My concern is more about the well being of the minor involved.... Because if their motivation was due to their attraction to a certain youthful age range, I would have been [u]devastated [/u]when I had outgrown their age of interest. Because such adults with such attractions would loose interest at some point, I cannot fathom such a relationship for the minor being in anyway beneficial to the minor -- A loving relationship with some kind of fixed termination date cannot be in anyway to the benefit of the minor who is still trying to figure himself out.

I've quoted what I feel are the most salient points in my estimation and the foundation of my own position on the matter. Since this particular topic crosses quite closely to another, less savoury one more recently posted, I think I might aswell expand more fully.

I have made no secret of the fact I was sexually active below the age of consent for my country at the time. The UK equalised the age of consent to 16 for all people regardless of orientation, in 2001, by which time I was already 19. Prior to which it was 18 for gay men. One of the reasons I don't tell people who are below the age of consent, to abstain. I try to avoid practising "Do as I say and not as I do" even if I believe it is unwise and risky to do.

Unlike NobodySpecial, I never had romantic inclinations towards older men, my engagement with those men was always of a sexual disposition and I never had any interest in long term engagement. At the time, I recall being very much in love with a straight friend of mine and the guys (of varying ages) I slept with, were very much casual, with the occasional experimental relationship, where it was more like trying one on for size, rather than being committed to a life long partner.

I met some guys who seemed to be interested in me, as a person, usually they were the guys nearest me in age or one or two, that were very much older. But there were far more who were of the type, that liked me for my apparent youth and who sought to capitalise on their perceived age and experience based authority or seniority, to bend me to their will and for me to do what they wanted.

I steered clear but I saw enough other young guys, who didn't, either because they didn't know how to push back against such insistent and predatory men or because they didn't really know what they wanted and just allowed themselves to be captured, passively and went on to have miserable experiences, because they thought they were getting something they weren't. That's just the ones, who didn't meet the really exploitative and nasty predators out there.

Which is why, even though this...
Subra wrote:He's 16 in America. It's a federal offence.
... is true and my attitude towards the age of consent is that it is important and vital, that I will always fight against those that argue against it's necessity. When it comes to those who are underage and considering making that decision for themselves, I feel compelled to let them know, they must make it for themselves, but to do so, armed with as much knowledge as possible, with the least amount of risk to themselves as possible and with as much confidence as they can muster, to assert themselves, should it be required, if a guy starts pressuring for anything they don't feel comfortable with.

Yet despite my experiences, I couldn't in good conscience, encourage them. I was an impatient and impetuous youth, prone to acting impulsively before thinking, I suspect, that had I known then, what I do now, I would likely have made different choices and would like to think I would have been more patient. That's not to suggest I regret my choices. I just recognise how extremely lucky I was and while some of it was mindset and a degree of vigilance, a great deal of it was dumb luck and nothing more.

So OP, don't feel ashamed of your interests, so long as they come from the right place, like Marmaduke points to, but be mindful of the law in your state, of who you get involved with and realise your making adult decisions with adult consequences.

And with that, I don't think I have anything else constructive to add to the conversation and I'll leave now.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 20 January 2022, 20:15

Unfortunately, when it comes to two men with "same gender attraction", we always assume the 'relationship' to be sexual. Do people show much concern when someone called Uncle steps into the role of 'second father', taking little Timmy to ball games, on fishing/camping trips, or let's him 'help' while repairing the project-mobile? Probably not all that often, after all, "it takes a village" and I'm guessing there has been a long history of both actual uncles and friends who function like uncles, being involved in the molding of young minds. Sure, some of these develop into "mancrushes" or just plain old crushes, so we can't assume there aren't romantic overtones (and I use both meanings of romantic).

The real problem is the power imbalance whenever an older man is able to exert some influence over a younger one. This doesn't even have to become sexual to be problematic, after all, Uncle could be a man's man who has little respect for waitresses who bring them hamburgers at the dinner on the way to the fishin' hole. Or imparts racist thoughts while staking prey. Neither of the scenarios are any better than the priests who cross the line with alter boys, yet society doesn't get as bent out of shape by the molding of young minds with chauvinism and racism.

But not all older-younger friendships have to be this way: there's the dedicated science teacher who tutors students after hours and maybe conducts extra experiments that aren't part of the curriculum to keep curious minds engaged. Or maybe a coach who spends a bit of extra time talking with someone who's recently lost his dad and maybe even takes him on some of those fishing, camping, or hunting trips. It's these kind of men who expand a young mind's concept of manhood beyond what is shown by the father and given the often fraught father-son relationships, these men often function as parental equivalents, shaping young people along the way.

In almost all such cases, the older person has a lot more power in the relationship than the younger - maybe this has even morphed into the once persistent fear of 'recruitment' into the homosexual 'lifestyle', but I think we all know that most gay men aren't recruited or turned gay when they are really, really straight. Anyway, I digress.

It's risky to assume all older-younger situations are driven by sexual desire though clearly that can be and is a factor. This heavily unbalanced power dynamic is one of the strongest reasons I support the concept of age of consent laws and other users have given examples of how this goes wrong.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 20 January 2022, 22:00

pozzie wrote:The real problem is the power imbalance whenever an older man is able to exert some influence over a younger one. This doesn't even have to become sexual to be problematic, after all, Uncle could be a man's man who has little respect for waitresses who bring them hamburgers at the dinner on the way to the fishin' hole. Or imparts racist thoughts while staking prey. Neither of the scenarios are any better than the priests who cross the line with alter boys, yet society doesn't get as bent out of shape by the molding of young minds with chauvinism and racism.


Obviously, you have never dealt with real abuse otherwise you would not trivialize sexual abuse. Sexual abuse or even physical/emotional abuse should never be put into the same light as someone who does not share politically correct views on other topics with the rest of society.

The nature of an adult vs minor role is always going to have some kind of imbalance. However, real abuse raises to a much higher level than sharing politically incorrect views.

I have two younger sisters (half sisters -- on my dad's side). I found out when I was an adult that their step-dad with the assistance of their own mother (my former step-mother) abused both of them.
Putting your penis inside a minor a minor who is supposed to trust you and protect you is a MUCH more serious offense than sharing views that are not politically correct. For instance, not everybody agrees with the view that transsexualism is should be normalized. Would you add that to your list that if an older adult shares that transsexualism is not normal, they are just as abusive as an adult who wants to put his penis inside a minor???

Most adults are going to have some views that are not in vogue with the latest politically correct views
on every topic. I remember on a bus trip and older lady befriended me. I was 14, and she was a senior
citizen. We got on the topic of religion, and I told her my maternal grandmother was a devout Catholic. She insisted that I needed to "save" her from the false religion and let her know about born again Christianity. That she knew people who suffered greatly as Catholics. Namely, how men were not allowed to have sex with their wives unless they were going to make a baby. Was she abusing me. NO. She was a wonderful lady with some weird twisted views.

Even as a child, I would have rather dealt with adults with views different than mine than being lured into sex against my will, or being physically abused or emotionally abused. The later did happen to me thanks to my NON-racist, woman-loving, asshole of a dad.

PS: Your close enough to my age, that you should be aware that the MAJORITY of people used to be very opposed to homosexuality. Obviously, I didn't agree with them. Sure it took me time to accept my feelings, but I'm not going to write off the vast majority of that past society just because their views were different than mine. Many of them eventually came around. They were NOT my abusers, they were simply not enlightened at the time.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 20 January 2022, 23:03

So, the way you tell it, the Apartheid government in South Africa prior to the mid 90s was "politically incorrect"? That's what you've equated racism to. Apartheid was racist, wrong, and incredibly violent. The Israeli/Palestinian situation could also be written off with that label as well, but I'm not assuming you're comfortable with the murder. After all, they just are living in a less enlightened time, place as well.

I hold that teaching others to hate or mistreat other people because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, or sexual identity - hell, for supporting this team over that team - is wrong and a misuse of trust. The main difference is it doesn't usually involve force or coercion, often components of sexual abuse. Furthermore, I didn't include such examples to illustrate equivalency between sexual abuse and the sharing of opinions, they are simply examples of how the power imbalance can effect those younger who look up to the adult.

Please don't try to assume nefarious intent, where there is none, from an ally. I apologize if I didn't quite state that in a more precise way. Young people look up to adults and they learn from what they see these people do and what they say.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby PopTart » 21 January 2022, 05:55

Yeah, I gotta agree with NobodySpecial here in that, paedophiles are worse and do far greater harm to a child, than a father or uncle who teaches some conservative values.

Conflating the two is think is akin to conflating conservatives with Nazis.

I don't see the two as the same in anyway.

I don't think your have malicious intent Poz, I just think you likely have views very much influenced by the current cultural conversation in the US, which comes with extreme attitudes towards political opposites.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 21 January 2022, 09:42

Seems I need to repeat myself.

I didn't include such examples to illustrate equivalency between sexual abuse and the sharing of opinions, they are simply examples of how the power imbalance can effect those younger who look up to the adult.


In no way am I saying that telling a young person never to trust a ___________ is the same as fucking a three year old. Oh hell no. They are clearly miles apart though having seen, first hand, what racism does in both the US and South Africa, I can say it is just as brutal and violent and can't easily be written off as "oh, they just weren't politically correct back then". That's bullshit. Slavery, lynching, and the rest of Jim Crow White Supremacy is not just being a bit politically incorrect.

Does this help any?

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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 21 January 2022, 11:25

Actually, you did compare to make equivalences. I QUOTE you again:

"Neither of the scenarios are any better than the priests who cross the line with alter boys.."

To refer back to your silly truth table, you took two examples of what you call lesser evil "normalizing disrespect" (waitress) and "normalizing inferiority" (racism) and compared them to a greater evil "child sexual abuse" (priest abusing alter boy), and the made the quoted statement above.

If you cannot comprehend what you said is VERY distorted, then I don't know what to tell you. There is a BIG difference between a person in power sharing YES politically incorrect views with a minor vs sexually, physically, or emotionally abusing a minor. I do not have personal experiences with sexual abuse as a minor, but I do know what it was like for my sisters. I do have experience with physical and emotional abuse. I would have rather even listen to a rant and rave about how all gays should be put to death over getting bashed in the face with a measuring cup because I was too "stupid" to know the difference between pints and quarts, to get my toe hit with a hammer enough that my nail eventually fell off as a way to teach me the evils of walking around barefoot in the house, as well as forced to stand in an ant pile for being barefoot. Or to be told periodically that you are retarded despite consistently bringing home work two grades ahead of where I was placed. Oh, but you will be happy to note that he wasn't a racists as he had no problem with making me strip to my underwear in the house hold when his minority prostitutes were present to make me more tolerant. Or to cut my hair to expose my defective ear, for not showing him the appropriate level of respect.

You are obviously clueless to what real abuse of a minor is like. I'd much rather live full time with the rantings of a racist, than someone who wants to impress minorities so he looks like a liberal white angel, while behind their backs do shit to his own family. I should know, I lived in hell with an evil so-called "anti-racists" for 3.5 years too many

Finally, it is also BULLSHIT to bring up apartheid, Jim Crow, etc. That is NOT what you brought up in the beginning. You simply brought it up later to appear to have some cross to pontificate from. Do you think you are the only one who ever saw evil in other parts of the world? My years in hell were actually half way around the world in the Philippines where my beloved father was stationed. The Philippines may not have had apartheid, but Mindanao had warfare between Christians and the Muslims. They had horrible distinctions between the haves and have nots.. They also looked down on the Nigretos (https://www.everyculture.com/East-South ... ritos.html). A woman couldn't ride a buss safely unless accompanied by a male, otherwise she might be fondled or worse.

The world has problems ever where you look. People, at the time looked up to places like Sweden, yet it was uncovered that back in the 70's they were sterilizing the "undesirable" as if they had totally forgot of the evils of eugenics. Regardless, I know to be true that I will never trivialize the sexual, physical, and emotional abuse of minors.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 21 January 2022, 18:19

NobodySpecial wrote:Actually, you did compare to make equivalences. I QUOTE you again:

"Neither of the scenarios are any better than the priests who cross the line with alter boys.."


Oh fuck, come on. Why do you continue to tell me what I'm thinking when I've tried to make it clearer and apologized for not being clearer in the first place? How many times do I have to say fucking a kid is wrong and a huge crime and not in the same league with sharing unpopular ideas? The problem is they still involve misusing a child's trust (unless it's all out violent rape, though it's really hard for to fathom that having sex with a child, definitely under 10, is anything else). What the fuck do you want already?

You also don't get to tell me what I know about being abused as a child. Fuck that.

But you're more than happy to attack me personally because I don't view racism as simply being "politically incorrect". I provided examples of institutionalized racism that went way over being politically incorrect to illustrate my point in an attempt to clarify my beliefs, but clearly you won't allow that because you've decided you know me, know what I believe, and you, like too many assholes on the right, are only to happy to tell me these things rather than ever trying to understand what I've written. That's bullshit.

I'm truly sorry for the difficulties you've had in life and the horrible things you've witnessed. You clearly have issues with some other people in the world. Please address them with those people. Please don't project those problems onto me.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby PopTart » 21 January 2022, 18:58

NobodySpecial wrote:Actually, you did compare to make equivalences. I QUOTE you again

I read pozzies statements the same way you did, but he has said that he didn't mean to conflate the two situations to be on par and I think that rational minded folks, should take that at face value.

It's easy to play fast and loose with language when having informal/casual conversations, ruminating on the fly, which can lead to misunderstandings.

I get being passionate about the subject, It's a live one and evokes a great deal of potent feeling. So I get your taking a strong stance on the issue.

All that being said, I think we all benefit from giving one another the benefit of the doubt, offering trust and seeking to meet eachother in the middle, especially when disagreements ensue.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 22 January 2022, 19:45

PopTart,
As you know the topic of this whole thread was about a 16 year old's attraction to older (adult) men. That is to what I was initially addressing. However, I do find offense with his initial comments. Beyond what he now claims was was bad examples, he still ended with the comment:

"..yet society doesn't get as bent out of shape by the molding of young minds with chauvinism and racism..."

You may be from the UK unlike us who are in the USA, but I am sure you are bombarded with US culture and news just like the rest of the world. There is a big difference between talking about "ideas" and actions.. Politically correct vs Politically incorrect is always about speech. Claiming that I'm defining the old SA Apartheid system as something politically incorrect is illogical as that was actions and laws -- not just speech and ideas.

As to molding young minds, I don't know a single culture of any sizeable population that didn't have a problem with homosexuality. I cannot speak for every religions' view, but we all know where the Abrahamic religions went with it. (I even knew a closeted, married University student from the Saudi kingdom who spent his life being terrified that he would be thrown off a tall building which I guess was one of their customs for adult men caught in m2m sexual situations] if anybody in his culture ever found out about his private sexual thoughts. He had yet to act on his urges.)

Sure we hear stories about various cultures where homosexuality was more tolerated but only certain conditions. Most of those conditions were where there is an age imbalance and the younger person (sometimes a minor) is supposed act as a substitute for a woman. Heaven forbid that two equal guys not trying to imitate women PREFER to be intimate with each other. That is more of a modern concept it seems.

I have a difficult time with condemning adults for just sharing views that are not popular even if it is with minors. Why? Because who is going to "police" all these adults? The "state"? We all have had to deal with crap -- especially as gay men when it comes to being told all our lives that we are evil, mentally ill, intrinsically disordered, or countless other negative explanations.

I understand that the "state" may have a compelling reason to get a handle on things when it threatens its people. That is why I can understand that Germany has laws against denying the Holocaust. As you know in the US, we are bombarded by fanatics who spread absolute nonsense about our 2020 election, vaccinations, etc. No matter how much evidence it out their to contradict those lies, they keep spreading. Society being bombarded by lies continually is why we have weak minded people who do things such as the US's 6-Jan-2021 attack on our Capitol. Imagine if left unchecked for instance in the case of vaccinations, and eventually few ever got any vaccinations -- let alone COVID ones? So many (especially children) used to die of measles, etc. Sadly, even my sisters are messed up, both of them seem to have become antivaxxers..

I would say that probably most of us have somethings that we believe contrary to the prevailing trends of thought...

I myself don't interact with minors. (Sadly, I am that way because of my own fear that if I did, someone find out I was gay, they would buy into the stereotype that I must be recruiting minors. Personally, I was never attracted to minors even when I myself was a minor.) However, I admire those men who do find working with children rewarding. I do not judge them because they may hold (and share) views different than mine, but I will judge them if they mess around with a minor.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby PopTart » 22 January 2022, 20:35

I understand you (and I, initially) believed Pozzie to be drawing a false equivalence.

I do understand your position, that it is on everyone to stand up and challenge ideas they believe to be wrong.

I understand your stated reasons for doing so, though I would caution, that in defending against ideas one believes to be concerning, one should remain open and attentive to peoples arguments and replies.

While it can seem that initially, Pozzie made an equivalence, it wasn't his intention to do so. Which kind of negates the cause for conflict. As he has sought to explain the misunderstanding.

Holding onto anger after that fact, is part of the problem in the American social and political discourse. People aren't listening to eachother. But going over the same points in ever more contentious discourse.

If you want a more reasoned and rational society and social discourse, someone has to start engaging in it.
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Re: Attracted to adults and guys a lot older than me??

Unread postby pozzie » 22 January 2022, 21:14

All,
How is my quote:

So, the way you tell it, the Apartheid government in South Africa prior to the mid 90s was "politically incorrect"? That's what you've equated racism to.

this (NobodySpecial's quote):

Claiming that I'm defining the old SA Apartheid system as something politically incorrect is illogical as that was actions and laws -- not just speech and ideas.

Is the question mark AFTER the first sentence not visible to anyone other than me? Does it not denote a QUESTION per chance? If you're not equating codified systemic racism with being politically incorrect, you're more than welcome to say so - just as I tried to say that sexual abuse of a child is not the same thing as sharing an idea.

I'm reluctant to say any more at this point because I feel an extremely low level of trust in trying to have an open discussion with NobodySpecial. However, that doesn't mean that trust can't be built. Clearly, from my reading at least, we share many similar ideas and opinions.

Last, a thought experiment: Was the final solution "just speech and ideas" at one point? Was it okay to discuss? Did such discussion produce harm (well, other than eventual action, but I trust we can accept that as a given)? At what point does discussion cease being helpful or even acceptable?
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