Bottom looking for cleaning advice

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Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby Supersluttie » 12 October 2020, 05:10

Hi folks,

I'm a bottom who absolutely loves taking it, but does not like it when things get "messy." So much so, that I've googled cleaning out, and watched youtube videos to see how other guys are making sure they can go as hard, deep and long as they want without worry.

Tonight I set to prepping to get laid, but never got clear water coming out. I use a bulb anal deuche, filling myself with 6 bulbs each fill. I literally did 16 fills, and had the last come out dirty as ever. What's strange is that I've had clear water come out with fewer fills in the past. So:

Does anyone else ever have that happen? Are there any sure-fire tips you have for being sparkling clean?

Thanks guys!
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby René » 12 October 2020, 15:17

  1. Good diet
  2. Edit: I've recently discovered that a vital piece of the puzzle is that you need to have sufficient fat intake to stimulate the production and flow of bile, which may sound gross but is actually an essential part of proper digestion and provides important natural lubrication so that everything that needs to come out can do so without problems, while also making sex more comfortable for everyone involved and reducing the need for exogenous lubrication.
    Obviously aim for healthy fats like olive, coconut, peanut, sesame, butter, etc.
  3. Pure for Men
  4. Make sure you feel like there's nothing there
  5. If you want to be absolutely sure, check with a finger (note: you're not testing whether you're clean, because that should be a given; you're making sure your feeling that there's nothing there is accurate, which may take some calibration)
Douching is unnecessary and has potential negative health consequences. I've never done it and don't plan to. "Mess" is not something I experience.
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby jake.wriley » 13 October 2020, 11:37

Great question!

I second René's advice.

Douching is a bit controversial. Some say it has negative health consequences, others say it doesn't. If I'm planning to have really rough sex (i.e., to where the action down there could trigger the sigmoidal colon to empty into the rectum), bottom for someone very hung (i.e., long enough to penetrate the sigmoidal colon), or get into some particularly kinky things, I'll douche. Otherwise, I'm fine without douching. Douching or not, I think it's important to remember that the lower digestive tract is a very dynamic system, and it's not really possible to expect it to be the same every day. But with time and practice, you'll be able to feel whether or not you're clean down there ( like what René said with doing your own personal "calibration").

This is probably an unsatisfying answer, but I personally think it just takes a little time and practice to get used to feeling when you're clean, so just remember to be patient with yourself :)

Regardless, even if you do douche, douching won't get you clean if you don't follow a healthy diet anyway. I'm not saying you eat unhealthy, but without sufficient daily fiber, that's probably why your experiences douching in the past have been inconsistent.

That's why I take a fiber supplement. In addition to eating reasonably healthy, I also take Pure for Men and really like it. You have to take it regularly, and I'd recommend staying very hydrated when taking it, but a fiber supplement added to a balanced diet is a great way to go (and is just healthy anyway regardless of sex). Other fiber supplements work just as well; in the States, you can get Metamucil capsules at any pharmacy for a lot cheaper than buying Pure online. I prefer Pure though since it's formulation uses less psyllium husk and agrees with my GI tract better, but that just depends on the person. You'll figure out what works best for you.

Long story short, I personally would highly recommend the four points René mentioned, and whether or not you douche is up to you. In my experience, douching is not always necessary, and I don't douche regularly. I usually do for those special cases when things get particularly wild or kinky down there; otherwise, my diet, fiber supplements, and checking with a finger while showering beforehand are my go-to steps to staying clean and have been successful for me so far.

Best of luck to you! :P
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby René » 13 October 2020, 12:06

As usual, Jake makes some good points.

For biological reasons there's no way to be 100% sure of being 100% clean, but my experience has been that you can get it to be reliable enough to never have a bad experience, and that douching isn't required and (based on experiences with my boyfriend) doesn't provide any guarantees. A bad day for me is being "quite clean" instead of "ridiculously clean" :P

Having said that, if you're having sex with someone who gives you a hard time if you haven't quite got to that point yet, you probably shouldn't be having sex with that person anyway. :)

Pure for Men is a really interesting formulation with 4 different ingredients that goes far beyond just adding some fibre to your diet. I think it's clear they've put a lot of research into fine-tuning it for this purpose. :D (And as a consequence, it's probably very good for general health, e.g. cardiovascular health, as well.)
I take 3 capsules twice a day — before breakfast and dinner. But different people find different schedules work for them. My boyfriend takes 3 capsules once a day at 9pm when we're together, which seems to work for him.

You can get it from their website on subscription for cheaper than on Amazon, by the way (and cancel anytime).

And yeah, drinking quite a bit of water is essential for it to work properly. It takes more water than just the amount needed to technically avoid dehydration and thirst. I'm always drinking big glasses of water, generally 1-2 litres of filtered tap water a day. My boyfriend has some crazy big glasses and probably drinks more like 2-3 litres a day. :P

And I'd say either showering beforehand or using wet wipes when using the bathroom (or both) is a good idea. I actually save money by just folding a piece of toilet paper and spitting on it, generally :lol: (though usually for me there's nothing or essentially nothing to wipe).
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby René » 14 October 2020, 15:42

I've recently actually discovered another crucial piece of the puzzle (now added to my first comment): you need to have sufficient fat intake to stimulate the production and flow of bile, which may sound gross but is actually an essential part of proper digestion and provides important natural lubrication so that everything that needs to come out can do so without problems, while also making sex more comfortable for everyone involved and reducing the need for exogenous lubrication.

Obviously aim for healthy fats like olive, coconut, peanut, sesame, butter, etc.

jake.wriley wrote:Douching is a bit controversial. Some say it has negative health consequences, others say it doesn't.

I hope you do agree evidence indicates douching is associated with significantly increased odds of contracting sexually transmitted infections.

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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby jake.wriley » 14 October 2020, 23:30

Good point about the healthy fats! I feel like healthy fats are never given the mention they deserve in nutrition. In my experience, the reasonable fat content with consistent fiber intake helps make the cleaning process much more consistent.

I hope you do agree evidence indicates douching is associated with significantly increased odds of contracting sexually transmitted infections.

hehe, you hope I agree with you?

I do agree that there is an association between the two, but proving non-spurious causality from a meta-analysis is virtually impossible. Not to mention that journal is not very reputable in its field, and the most recent paper was authored by researchers with no scientific training in infectious diseases or any other clinical field. I'm not at all saying that they're wrong but rather just claiming that these studies are not definitive; that makes me a little uncomfortable why one would "hope" I agree with it.

Unfortunately, the neglect of men's sexual health in the scientific and medical communities -- especially for the MSM population -- has led to a sad amount of ambiguity surrounding things like this. Even something as prototypical as rectal HIV transmission is poorly understood. Although this isn't the context to talk about mucous adhesion to the rectal epithelium, it is a mechanistically complicated thing to study which hasn't received adequate attention to know how rectal lavage affects the epithelial lining with regards to conferring immunity. Thankfully this is changing and people are placing more emphasis on these sexual practices, but in the meantime, I simply don't think there's sufficient evidence to claim that douching is either safe or dangerous.

And just to recapitulate what I was saying in my previous post and in other threads on this topic, I'm not trying to claim that douching is safe. Inserting a foreign object anywhere in your body always presents some level of risk. On the flip side, I also don't think it's evidenced to claim that douching is definitely risky.

From my own investigation of the topic, I personally think that douching can be safe if done properly, e.g., using spit or lube, using a clean source of water (but NOT distilled water), only irrigating the rectum and not further into the sigmoid, using a bulb douche instead of a shower attachment (not as popular nowadays anyway), not douching everyday, etc. Just like safe sex practices greatly diminish the probability of contracting an STI, I believe safe douching practices can limit its dangers.

Hence why I originally said that douching is a controversial topic. Do your own homework and believe what you want. That's how I formed my opinions on douching and why I practice my cleaning routine the way I do; I believe my practices are safe and outweigh the risks of not douching. It's ultimately your own body and the risks you're willing to take with it.
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby René » 15 October 2020, 03:55

jake.wriley wrote:
I hope you do agree evidence indicates douching is associated with significantly increased odds of contracting sexually transmitted infections.

hehe, you hope I agree with you?

As in, I would hope you would not write it off as "some say this, others say that; who can say what's real????" :lol:
No need to read more into it than that. :P

jake.wriley wrote:I do agree that there is an association between the two

Oh, good! :)

jake.wriley wrote:but proving non-spurious causality from a meta-analysis is virtually impossible.

I chose my words carefully.

jake.wriley wrote:Not to mention that journal is not very reputable in its field,

I saw it's published by a subsidiary of the British Medical Association. Kind of figured they would have decent standards... :runaway:

jake.wriley wrote:and the most recent paper was authored by researchers with no scientific training in infectious diseases or any other clinical field.
Peiyang Li # 1, Tanwei Yuan # 2, Thomas Fitzpatrick 3, Kumi Smith 4, Jin Zhao 5, Guohui Wu 6, Lin Ouyang 6, Ying Wang 7, Kechun Zhang 8, Yiguo Zhou 2, Meijuan Li 2, Dahui Chen 2, Linghua Li 9, Weiping Cai 9, Yong Cai 10, Huachun Zou 11 12

Affiliations
1 School of Public Health, Sun Yat-Sen University, Guangzhou, Guangdong, China.
2 School of Public Health (Shenzhen), Sun Yat-Sen University, Shenzhen, Guangdong, China.
3 University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, Washington, USA.
4 School of Public Health, University of Minnesota Twin Cities, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.
5 Shenzhen Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Shenzhen, China.
6 Institute for AIDS/STD Control and Prevention, Chongqing Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Chongqing, China.
7 School of Public Health, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, School of Medicine, Shanghai, China.
8 Shenzhen Longhua District Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Shenzhen, China.
9 Center for Infectious Diseases, Guangzhou Eighth People's Hospital, Guangzhou, Guangdong, China.
10 School of Public Health, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, School of Medicine, Shanghai, China zouhuachun@mail.sysu.edu.cn caiyong202028@163.com.
11 School of Public Health (Shenzhen), Sun Yat-Sen University, Shenzhen, Guangdong, China zouhuachun@mail.sysu.edu.cn caiyong202028@163.com.
12 Kirby Institute, University of New South Wales, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
# Contributed equally.

None of these 16 people associated with all these universities' schools of public health and medicine and such in 3 countries, including the one at the Center for Infectious Diseases at that Chinese hospital, has scientific training in infectious diseases or otherwise knows what they're doing?

jake.wriley wrote:I'm not at all saying that they're wrong but rather just claiming that these studies are not definitive;

I don't think anyone would ever claim all the answers lie within them...

jake.wriley wrote:that makes me a little uncomfortable why one would "hope" I agree with it.

I would hope one would agree with what appear to be unconstested facts. :P
Which it appears one does!

jake.wriley wrote:And just to recapitulate what I was saying in my previous post and in other threads on this topic, I'm not trying to claim that douching is safe. Inserting a foreign object anywhere in your body always presents some level of risk. On the flip side, I also don't think it's evidenced to claim that douching is definitely risky.

Did I say it is "definitely risky"? I could have done, since clearly if there are unknowns and much depends on how it's done as you have said, it certainly can't be definitively stated that it's a safe practice, and there clearly are considered to be risks. I believe I said (deliberately somewhat vaguely) it has "potential negative health consequences", which you seem to agree with.

I often get such a combative vibe from you, Jake. :lol: Is that intentional? Just curious.
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby jake.wriley » 15 October 2020, 10:00

I often get such a combative vibe from you, Jake. :lol: Is that intentional? Just curious.

Yes, you do get a combative vibe from me, for my impression is that you mistake your popularity on this forum for qualification to speak about all things related to being gay. Having sex doesn't make you an expert in having sex, and being gay doesn't make you an expert in being gay. Sure, it equips you to provide your own opinions and advice — which I agree with many on this forum is very helpful at times — but for me, cherry-picking information from scientific journals is a VERY bad practice and crossed a line.

I would hope one would agree with what appear to be unconstested facts. :P
Which it appears one does!

Just to be sure, do you mean to say that these papers are reporting uncontested facts? If that's the case, then you clearly don't understand how research works or likely what science even is in the first place. Scientific research doesn't involve many uncontested facts and, cherry-picking information from journals is probably the fastest way to get a scientist to laugh at you.

I saw it's published by a subsidiary of the British Medical Association. Kind of figured they would have decent standards...

You're right, BMA journals are generally VERY highly esteemed in the medical community, but this particular journal is not. All scientific journals, including Science and Nature, have what are called "baby journals" which are generally lower-impact journals, some of which are VERY low impact. The journal from which these two papers are pulled is an example; just look up its h-index and impact factor. If you don't have this basic understanding of how scientific journals work, I'd recommend you don't site them and pretend to know what you're talking about. For those of us in the scientific community, this type of behavior is comical, and more importantly, it can be tremendously misleading for those who don't know any better.

None of these 16 people associated with all these universities' schools of public health and medicine and such in 3 countries, including the one at the Center for Infectious Diseases at that Chinese hospital, has scientific training in infectious diseases or otherwise knows what they're doing?

I'm not trying to claim that they don't know what they're doing. However, when the first author and PI come from an institute and school of public health, that's why I questioned their understanding of clinical research. I'm NOT questioning their expertise, intellect, and research acumen. There's just a big difference between doing statistical analysis of data reported by others (i.e., what these authors did) and actually acquiring that data yourself. Schools of public health provide training in the former but not the latter. Unfortunately, meta-analyses performed without knowledge of the latter often over-fit data and extract information that simply isn't contained in that data based on how it was acquired. Careful consideration of data acquisition prior to performing a meta-analysis is very difficult but critical to provide sound conclusions; unfortunately, these authors did not report that they considered the data in this way.

...reducing the need for exogenous lubrication.

Also, that you would try to undermine the need for lube during anal sex makes me seriously question your advice. If you claim that douching increases transmission rates of STIs, then what do you think the effects of micro-abrasions or an anal fissure are? I'd be hard-pressed to find any medical professional who would recommend anal intercourse without lube. If you're bottoming for a one-pump chump with a micropenis, maybe you don't need lube, but in all other cases, relying on the mucus lining as "lube" is downright foolish for a number of reasons. The mucus down there is not lube (the anus is not a vagina), and the friction from unlubricated anal intercourse will likely wear through that mucus too quickly for it to do anything.

To others reading this, USE LUBE! If you're concerned about putting foreign substances inside of you, there are many natural options out there for lube these days.

Anyway, I think this concludes my participation on this forum. If I can't share my opinions lest they disagree with this self-proclaimed expert of a moderator, then it's not much of a forum. Cherry-picking information in the way that was done here is such a tremendously bad practice and runs the risk of misleading people who don't know any better, and trying to fake scientific understanding despite demonstrated ignorance on the subject can really hurt people on this forum without the discernment to see past it.
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby René » 15 October 2020, 16:01

Wow. I hardly know where to begin addressing this, but I guess if you're gone it's kind of a waste of time anyway, and I have better things to spend it on. Just a few cursory thoughts:

Regarding your combative attitude, I was also referring to your posts here for example. Downright hostile. It's like you're actively trying to be dislikable. :(

If something is contested, shouldn't there be *something* pointing to the contrary? If there is, I haven't seen it, and I would welcome being shown.

Self-proclaimed expert? :wtf: That sounds more like you!

I'm not saying don't use lube, for heaven's sake! OBVIOUSLY! Just that, in my obviously personal and limited experience*, an ideal diet reduces (NOT ELIMINATES) the amount needed or means you can manage e.g. with spit and that, as a result, sex can be much less messy, sticky and annoying.

*Do I really need to qualify everything I say like this to avoid you thinking it's meant to be some kind of expert opinion, objective truth or gospel? That's the impression I get from you.

A recurring theme in your posts, besides hostility, is putting words in people's mouths.

Can't share your opinions? Have you seen me banning you (or anyone else who isn't a spammer)?

Bye, I guess. :oface:
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby Derek » 15 October 2020, 17:51

:lol: what a bitch
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Re: Bottom looking for cleaning advice

Unread postby Marmaduke » 15 October 2020, 18:03

Dear Supersluttie,

As you can see, the sluicing of one’s colon is very much like religion in these parts. Strong views are held, and debate around those views pays no heed to good sense.

Just apply common sense, try to eat as well as you can and accept that every now and again, there’s gonna be a instance of less-that-ideal personal hygiene.

Whatever you do, don’t adhere to a bum-cleansing regimen with such fervour and passion as you have seen above. Nobody wants to stick it in a zealot.
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