Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby PoisonFrosty » 13 November 2019, 01:42

I would definitely rather be a hot chick. And if i was i'd still be bi leaning more towards girls. I am more attracted to the female form, while wanting to have it at the same time. Also i have a villainess fetish where im turned on by a hot bad chick being defeated by a good girl, but also myself in that role being defeated by another femmish guy or a pretty boy.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Jryski » 13 November 2019, 07:54

No I never questioned my gender. Im happy being a guy. I however, have questioned if something was wrong with me because Im supposed to like girls but I find guys attractive instead. I'm not sure what receiving blowjobs have anything to do with being a bottom. Care to explain that one to me? I'm a little lost.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Eryx » 13 November 2019, 13:14

jonbennxo wrote:So you don't receive blowjobs, and you never top, correct? Because this is what I meant by being a "total bottom".
Um, no? Being a total bottom means you don't like to top and would never prefer to top during sex. Being blown or getting a handjob have nothing to do with it. Those are sexual preferences but being a "bottom" entails anal sex and not other preferences.
jonbennxo wrote:Whoa! You're not being straight-phobic there by any chance, are you? :P You wouldn't like it if a straight man talked about all the "dumb shit that gay guys do".
Probably, but I'm in a gay forum and I'm pretty sure I can speak my mind here. Straight people aren't a minority that they'd get scarred with me thinking most straight men are dickheads. And I don't think it really qualifies as a "phobia" to think a certain way about straight man behavior considering most of the stories that get to me confirm it. There are millions upon millions of good straight guys out there, but on average they tend to be assholes more often than any other group.
jonbennxo wrote:Of course. This is mainly about gender identity.
If you already know that, stop trying to make it seem like being a bottom is related to wanting to be a woman.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby jonbennxo » 13 November 2019, 20:07

I posted this same question on another forum and it was pretty well received there. Here, on the other hand, I seem to have really triggered some of you and I wonder why? Surely, if you're so confident and happy being men then this should be a simple/fairly straight-forward question. Some of you are acting like I am accusing you of wanting to be women, which is definitely not the case.

PoisonFrosty wrote:I would definitely rather be a hot chick.

So, pretty much like me then - you'd take the "pill" but you don't actively want to pursue "transitioning" into a woman, correct?


Eryx wrote:Um, no? Being a total bottom means you don't like to top and would never prefer to top during sex. Being blown or getting a handjob have nothing to do with it. Those are sexual preferences but being a "bottom" entails anal sex and not other preferences.

No, I meant someone who doesn't receive/doesn't like receiving blowjobs, and only ever "receives" anal sex.
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I don't know if the above is an actual term that's used for this sort of thing, but I heard it a few years ago and it stuck with me. I also know 2 other guys who identify as that (though they are quite happy being "men"). If you're purely talking about anal sex, I thought you'd simply use terms like "bottom" or "versatile bottom". But that's not really important here anyway.

To answer your question as to how it relates to being a woman - well, you see, someone who doesn't enjoy receiving BJs, nor do they enjoy "topping" could be described as someone who doesn't really use their dick, would you agree? If someone doesn't use their dick, it could all be nice and well and for genuine reasons, or it could also be due to potential body/gender dysphoria. Do you really not see the connection? You (and someone else here) seem to have taken one thing that I said and ran with it. I didn't just talk about "bottoms", I talked about many more things - feminine physique, smooth body, skinny body, long hair, makeup, AND being a TOTAL bottom on top of that. If you really don't see what kind of connection there might be there for someone who is questioning their gender, then I don't know what to tell you.

Eryx wrote:Probably, but I'm in a gay forum and I'm pretty sure I can speak my mind here. Straight people aren't a minority that they'd get scarred with me thinking most straight men are dickheads. And I don't think it really qualifies as a "phobia" to think a certain way about straight man behavior considering most of the stories that get to me confirm it. There are millions upon millions of good straight guys out there, but on average they tend to be assholes more often than any other group.

Of course you can speak your mind. You can speak your mind anywhere you like. But there's always going to be social consequences to that (one of them being: someone else might call you out on it - like in this case). I have a different opinion. I wouldn't appreciate if straight people made homophobic remarks about me behind my back, but, if they did - I still wouldn't do the same to them. Two wrongs don't make a right. If someone steals your umbrella it doesn't give you the right to steal someone else's. And of course it can still be classed as a "phobia" (or "heterophobia" if you will - as much as I hate to use that word). It's prejudice against someone based solely on their sexual orientation. The fact that they are "the majority" and you're the "minority" is irrelevant, in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree there.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby rogonandi » 13 November 2019, 21:40

Um, no? Being a total bottom means you don't like to top and would never prefer to top during sex. Being blown or getting a handjob have nothing to do with it. Those are sexual preferences but being a "bottom" entails anal sex and not other preferences.


Mega :werd: on this.

I’ve never understood how giving hand and blowjobs could be considered passive or “bottom” things. You’re the one controlling the pleasure the recipient gets here. :thumbsupwink:
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Brenden » 14 November 2019, 00:39

Not typically inserting your dick into orifices doesn’t make you gender dysphoric.

This is some grade-A homophobic trans-ideological bullshit.

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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Derek » 14 November 2019, 01:02

jonbennxo wrote:To answer your question as to how it relates to being a woman - well, you see, someone who doesn't enjoy receiving BJs, nor do they enjoy "topping" could be described as someone who doesn't really use their dick, would you agree? If someone doesn't use their dick, it could all be nice and well and for genuine reasons, or it could also be due to potential body/gender dysphoria. Do you really not see the connection? You (and someone else here) seem to have taken one thing that I said and ran with it. I didn't just talk about "bottoms", I talked about many more things - feminine physique, smooth body, skinny body, long hair, makeup, AND being a TOTAL bottom on top of that. If you really don't see what kind of connection there might be there for someone who is questioning their gender, then I don't know what to tell you.

My understanding is that sexual preference is unrelated to gender dysphoria, and you'd probably annoy a lot of trans people if you suggested that it was. As we all know, gender is complex and reducing it to what you do or don't do with your penis is inherently reductionist.

Also, as someone who is smooth and skinny, I'm at a loss to explain why my genetic inheritance might contribute to your perception of my gender.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby jonbennxo » 14 November 2019, 18:44

Brenden wrote:Not typically inserting your dick into orifices doesn’t make you gender dysphoric.
This is some grade-A homophobic trans-ideological bullshit.

Where did I say it did? Please provide a quote if possible. As far as I can see, I said the following:

If someone doesn't use their dick, it could all be...for genuine reasons, or it could also be due to potential body/gender dysphoria

And I still stand by that. Again, you're taking one thing that I said and running with it. I included other things - things to do with (one's own choice of) appearance as well, for example.

Sucking dick doesn't necessarily mean you're gay, right? It could just mean that you're experimenting with your sexuality. But it could also mean that you ARE, indeed, gay (in many cases). Similarly, "not using your dick" - on its own - doesn't necessarily equal = gender dysphoria. But it could do.

Can you remember when you realised that you're gay? Was it really straight-forward? Or was it a longer/more complex journey, by any chance? Did you experience any stepping stones in between, before you finally realised: "OMG I'm gay!"?. So....why invalidate other people's journeys? Just because it's different from your own? The questions I am asking/have asked are 100% valid questions when it comes to someone questioning their gender. I wanted gay men's opinion in order to help me further explore my own journey of my gender identity.

Brenden wrote:#LGBdroptheT

You feeling OK?

Derek wrote:My understanding is that sexual preference is unrelated to gender dysphoria, and you'd probably annoy a lot of trans people if you suggested that it was. As we all know, gender is complex and reducing it to what you do or don't do with your penis is inherently reductionist.

Yes, sexual preference and gender identity are two separate things, that's correct. But they definitely go hand in hand. Your sex life can definitely help you realise/better understand your own gender identity (e.g.: I like sex with men. I am a man. Therefore, I must be gay....right?? But.....I don't like to be a "man" in the bedroom..I don't like "man on man" sex...and I never am in the role of a "man" in the bedroom...and I like it that way...Could it have a deeper meaning? Do you see what I mean? NB: I am not necessarily saying those are my exact thought because that could spark a whole new conversation and trigger even more people on this forum.

Derek wrote:Also, as someone who is smooth and skinny, I'm at a loss to explain why my genetic inheritance might contribute to your perception of my gender.

Sorry, my bad, I meant smooth/skinny BY CHOICE obviously. I.e. someone who loves being skinny and wants to be skinny as well as someone who actively gets rid of their body/facial hair and prefers that smooth/hairless/slim physique (I am bracing myself for more triggered comments coming my way, and that's fine, but....again, put all these things I have said so far, together...and you can't NOT see why someone in my shoes would question their gender identity. I don't know how else to explain it.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Brasileiro » 14 November 2019, 22:51

jonbennxo wrote:I posted this same question on another forum and it was pretty well received there. Here, on the other hand, I seem to have really triggered some of you and I wonder why? Surely, if you're so confident and happy being men then this should be a simple/fairly straight-forward question. Some of you are acting like I am accusing you of wanting to be women, which is definitely not the case..

No, the thing is, we are men that are into men. We are not women in the wrong body and most of us seem to understand that being transgender has got nothing to do with sexuality (they can be lesbian, gay, straight, asexual, the whole spectrum) and being a bottom has nothing to do with femininity.

Yes, there are people who think it has something to do with being submissive, but it is an error to put that quality to females or typical feminine.

Just because one is a bottom, does not mean they automatically crave to be a female.

Also, a transgender person does not want to be the opposite sex, they already are, they just have the wrong body.
Just wanting to be the opposite sex sounds to me way more like a pure fetish thing, a fantasy. Like how they would enjoy having sex as a female. That is not being a woman.

The reason why some react somewhat stung lies in the fact that we know what a true transgender person goes through, and that real females (and I mean including transwomen) have to deal with a lot of harassment and prejudice.
And we know one can be on a scale between male and female and that can even be fluid, regardless of ones sex.

Ofcourse one can struggle with gender identity, but if you want sympathy towards that, make it about you and your struggle, not about fem gays, bottoms, sex and what not.

A lot of us are more than willing to listen and help with whatever when it comes to personal journeys.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby GearFetTwinkRomance » 15 November 2019, 14:09

No, I wouldn't want to change sex, but I would instantly take a pill that could transform me to become an attractive young man and start the game over. Thing is, I happen to have some problems that will be considered a bit female, as seen just from an anatomic or medical point of view and I never liked it. All the sports and training didn't help, classic surgery might, can't afford it though. Old. Who cares...

I don't oppose to the fact that being a woman certainly would heighten the chance to meet some attractive young man or even a Twink. And as I have fallen for heterosexual men all along my past,
( Always showed in the process of getting to know them or find out about their orientation ) the few times that I got fond of some guy, it likely would be a huge benefit to be a woman and attractive.

But well, I like being a guy, I just despise my faulty genes and damned anatomical limits. Being rejected by attractive guys over and over kind of does something to one's psyche, even if one's not the greatest loser of douche kingdom. I don't want to wear women's dresses and all that make-up and artificial scent or perfume and all them dangling earrings - okay, these days, women can choose what they want to wear. Women are allowed to grow facial hair, shave their head and wear leather chaps, even if it makes them look ridiculous. Still, there are all the things you have said, women don't like that much about being women. To add the part, where even in countries(like mine) that pretend this, women aren't treated equal to men. Women are not even paid for their work the same as men are.
Then, okay, men with no sex appeal are not treated equally to men with it either. But that's a different subject.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Eryx » 18 November 2019, 07:08

jonbennxo wrote:I posted this same question on another forum and it was pretty well received there.`
Maybe they're teenagers? No one's triggered, we're just disagreeing. Your lack of self-awareness makes itself clear in the fact that your logical reasoning is to consider everyone else "triggered" and yourself righteous, rather than the probable conclusion that your opinion is likely the wrong one. It's fairly common for people online to never accept that they have the losing opinion, though. Even more common for them to say that "everyone's entitled to their opinion" when that happens, so I'm not surprised in the least.

jonbennxo wrote:Some of you are acting like I am accusing you of wanting to be women, which is definitely not the case.
Nah, I just said I don't, and I gave you some strong reasons for that, but that seems unlikely to you for some reason, so we're still going.

jonbennxo wrote:Image
I'm glad to know a ten-year old definition of "total bottom" or Urban Dictionary now constitutes a source. Truly fascinating.

jonbennxo wrote:Do you really not see the connection? You (and someone else here) seem to have taken one thing that I said and ran with it. I didn't just talk about "bottoms", I talked about many more things - feminine physique, smooth body, skinny body, long hair, makeup, AND being a TOTAL bottom on top of that. If you really don't see what kind of connection there might be there for someone who is questioning their gender, then I don't know what to tell you.
And girls wear pink, and boys like cars... Bogus connections that remind me of Catholic priests trying to explain what it means to be gay. No, I don't see the connection, because it doesn't exist. People with gender dysphoria can tell you they feel it, they don't need to use sexual preferences to make that point clearer. You're the one mixing things up, not me.

jonbennxo wrote:It's prejudice against someone based solely on their sexual orientation. The fact that they are "the majority" and you're the "minority" is irrelevant, in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree there.
I'm someone who falls under the LGBT umbrella because I'm gay, but that doesn't force me to become an activist on political correctness in every area of my life. If a Saudi person comes to live in Brazil, I'm going to draw assumptions on them. I'm going to assume they're Muslim and very much homophobic, unaware of the social cues and cultural structure of Brazil. I'm going to be wary of approaching them with certain topics or making it clear to them that I'm attracted to men, so that 1) I can interact with them in healthy ways and 2) They don't threaten my well-being. That's a prejudice, and it's warranted, because that's what I get of Saudi Arabia. If they go out of their way to tell me that they are not homophobic and that they're welcoming to Brazilian culture and want to assimilate, I'm ready to be their friend, accept their heritage and be upfront to them about myself. Same for straight guys. I don't owe them a blank plate.

The social consequence of me being wary of straight men's behaviors due to how they're brought up is basically that you're upset about it more than they themselves probably are, since they don't really visit this forum.

Be a woman, cut your dick off, do whatever you want. If you're pleasing enough to interact with, I'm with you, just don't try to make correlations that are complete bullshit, you won't get me to agree with them.

jonbennxo wrote:Sorry, my bad, I meant smooth/skinny BY CHOICE obviously. I.e. someone who loves being skinny and wants to be skinny as well as someone who actively gets rid of their body/facial hair and prefers that smooth/hairless/slim physique
Why the FUCK is that related to being female? You're all over the place dude... Am I to say fat girls are now masculine?
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby jonbennxo » 18 November 2019, 21:13

@Brasileiro:
Thanks! I wouldn't say I'm looking for "sympathy" or anything like that, but when it comes to questioning my gender I think speaking to gay men (especially those who are similar to me) is just as important as speaking to actual trans people. Like I said I know sexuality and gender identity aren't the same thing, but I do firmly believe they go hand-in-hand (see my earlier post) and that your sexuality can definitely help you learn about your gender identity (e.g. very common stories of "I used to think I was a gay boy, but turns out I am trans" etc)

@GearFetTwinkRomance:
Yeah that makes sense! Thanks for replying!

@Eryx:
Have you ever heard of the saying "Attack the argument; not the person!"? I really have no idea what's making you so angry (maybe it's nothing to do with this post/who knows) but I still stand by my original statement - you definitely seem triggered. Your responses are filled with anger and contempt.

Eryx wrote:Maybe they're teenagers?

Funnily enough, I thought THIS place must've been filled with teenagers considering some of the responses.

Eryx wrote:It's fairly common for people online to never accept that they have the losing opinion, though.

Well, that's ironic because I could say the same about you? Who gets to decide if you're the one who has a "losing opinion" or me?

Eryx wrote:I'm glad to know a ten-year old definition of "total bottom" or Urban Dictionary now constitutes a source. Truly fascinating.

My exact words were (I've copy-pasted them so you don't have to scroll back):
"I don't know if the above is an actual term that's used for this sort of thing, but I heard it a few years ago and it stuck with me. If you're purely talking about anal sex, I thought you'd simply use terms like "bottom" or "versatile bottom". But that's not really important here anyway."

Does that sound like I was providing a source? I clearly said I didn't know if it was an actual term or not. And finished by saying it doesn't matter (i.e. I didn't know it wasn't used in that sense everywhere).

Eryx wrote:I'm gay, but that doesn't force me to become an activist on political correctness in every area of my life

Nope. It doesn't force you to become an activist on PC. But, again, your words have (social) consequences. If you are brave enough to make "hetero-phobic" remarks (or indeed express your prejudice against people of different nationalities) knock yourself out, but, again, I have the right to call you out on it.

Eryx wrote:just don't try to make correlations that are complete bullshit

Please could you provide a direct quote by me where I made correlations that are complete BS?

Eryx wrote:Why the FUCK is that related to being female? You're all over the place dude...

you sure you're feeling OK (=/non-triggered) still?

Eryx wrote:Am I to say fat girls are now masculine?

Have you ever heard of the term "straw man argument"? (A form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent).
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Brasileiro » 18 November 2019, 23:03

jonbennxo wrote:@Brasileiro:
Thanks! I wouldn't say I'm looking for "sympathy" or anything like that, but when it comes to questioning my gender I think speaking to gay men (especially those who are similar to me) is just as important as speaking to actual trans people. Like I said I know sexuality and gender identity aren't the same thing, but I do firmly believe they go hand-in-hand (see my earlier post) and that your sexuality can definitely help you learn about your gender identity (e.g. very common stories of "I used to think I was a gay boy, but turns out I am trans" etc)

Trans people, believe me, KNOW they are trans. Often from a tender age, sometimes later, but they do not experience feeling attracted to the same sex (= being gay) as being male or female. It is NOT COMMON at all for them to think they were "just gay" and suddenly find out they are in the wrong body. I am sure it can happen, but it is not a common story.
I do not see how attraction helps you with gender identity. You can like the opposite sex or the same sex as a woman and man alike and everything in between. You don not have to be one or the other to like what you like.

There is also a difference between "wanting to be" and knowing you are and the body just does not fit. I do not take the "wanting to be" people serious, sorry. It sounds more like jealousy and unrealistic expectations. Especially when they talk about wanting to wake up as the opposite sex. And ATTRACTIVE.

As a SUPER fem gay person I am aware I am perceived as having "female mannerism" but in all honesty, what is female? Why do we think of some mannerism being male or female? (Not talking about physical differences). Who decides that? I do not give a fuck what other people think.

But, as for your journey, have you tried cross dressing? Because that IS in fact a way a lot of people find out they are trans if they did not know when they were young.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby jonbennxo » 19 November 2019, 19:25

Brasileiro wrote:Trans people, believe me, KNOW they are trans. Often from a tender age, sometimes later, but they do not experience feeling attracted to the same sex (= being gay) as being male or female. It is NOT COMMON at all for them to think they were "just gay" and suddenly find out they are in the wrong body. I am sure it can happen, but it is not a common story.

They don't always "know" straight away though. Of course, once they "come out" (to themselves), in hindsight - they feel like "they've always known" (similar to being gay - you may go through a phase of questioning first - at some point before you finally come out (to yourself). Yes, there are the trans people who felt very strongly about being trans already pre-puberty, but they're definitely not the majority here. I do not know exact numbers/percentages/statistics, so you might be right about the fact that most trans women never used to think they were a "gay man", I was only going off of what I have seen myself (3 transgender women I know personally - and I knew them as "gay men" in the past). There used to be a Youtube channel called "Androgenetics" - there was 6 of them there at one point; every single one of them was a self-identifying feminine gay man (at the time), and every single one of them self-identifies as a trans woman now. But these could be the "exception" to the rule; you might be right - like I said, I don't know the official numbers.

Brasileiro wrote:I do not see how attraction helps you with gender identity. You can like the opposite sex or the same sex as a woman and man alike and everything in between. You don not have to be one or the other to like what you like.

I didn't say "attraction"; I said sexuality. And I didn't say sexuality is the same as gender identity; I said they go hand-in-hand together (or even better: your sexuality can help you determine/figure out your gender identity)

Example: I haven't had sex "as a man" for about 10 years now. I always cross-dress when I have sex; I 100% prefer it that way. And I prefer to be treated the way a guy would "normally" treat a "woman" when I am having sex (I am using quotation marks here; so take this with a grain of salt; and don't come for me for these words please). When I did have "man on man" sex in the past, I never enjoyed it; it almost made me feel sick to my stomach afterwards at one point. I knew I wasn't asexual because men still turned me on and I DID want to have sex with them. Just not....as a guy. When I finally cross-dressed and tried having sex that way, it was a 180 degree turn immediately! So, in a way, sex "helped me" realize this part of my "gender identity".

Maybe I should've just said "sex" in the first place; not "sexuality". What I'm trying to say is; If a (biological/cis-gender) woman woke up tomorrow in a male body, she would not enjoy sex with men. You could argue: "Hey what's the problem? You like men, right?" -well, she does, but she doesn't want those men to "like her" for her (now) male body. Because she doesn't identify with that male body. It's not hers.

Brasileiro wrote:There is also a difference between "wanting to be" and knowing you are and the body just does not fit. I do not take the "wanting to be" people serious, sorry. It sounds more like jealousy and unrealistic expectations. Especially when they talk about wanting to wake up as the opposite sex. And ATTRACTIVE.

Again, very early on, even kids (for the lack of knowledge/vocabulary) say "Mommy I want to be a girl". It's exactly as you said: "they already are a girl" (but they are only just discovering that hence the incorrect/clumsy use of language). And you can remove the word "attractive" from this equation. I would take that pill even if that wasn't a guarantee.

Brasileiro wrote:But, as for your journey, have you tried cross dressing? Because that IS in fact a way a lot of people find out they are trans if they did not know when they were young.

Yes, I've been cross-dressing for about 10 years now. I have a pretty androgynous looking face, so, when I'm out "dressed up" most people don't notice that "i am a guy" and the men who hit on me, are mostly self-identifying straight men (I am going off of what they tell me here). I only ever wear somewhat-male-ish clothes for work... Funny you should bring up "cross-dressing" btw because the majority of cross-dressers, are actually straight men. Clothes are man-made so I am really surprised you say that THAT's how a lot of people find out they are trans.

I wonder how much longer I will have this "androgynous" face of mine; it's making me think nature will soon start taking its course and I will start aging "as a man" and that scares me quite frankly...hence why I think I am where I am (i.e. questioning my gender identity).
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 20 November 2019, 01:29

Derek wrote:Also, as someone who is smooth and skinny

:drool: Show us
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby Brasileiro » 20 November 2019, 17:19

As for clothes: What I mean is that if you find out that you are actually more comfortable in the clothes of the opposite sex, like being able to express the real you more freely, it might be that you have been expressing yourself in a harnassed way in the clothes that you were supposed to wear according to your assigned sex. It might be you were more playing a role that society fits to your assigned sex than who you really are.
You would know which body you are comfortable in if you are trans. But if you doubt it is a good check. another good check is asking yourself if you want to be an old as a woman or a man (or neither). Because, you know, you wil age.
Also crossdressing is not linked to being straight or gay. It can be a fetish, it can be linked to performing, it can be just a feeling of expressing your feminine side, it can be for fun and it can be because you feel more comfortable in it. But it has nothing to do with your preferences for partners, either romanticly or sexually.

There is no correlation between being gay and anything else, period. Gay is being attracted to the same sex, no more, no less.

I am not even reading your posts completely. It is wearing me out and I made my point days ago.
We are talking about something that is not possible anyway, changing just like that.

If you feel you are non binary, or gender fluid or transgender, or whatever, it is all fine, it is your journey. It can change over time, it can get stronger, it is all good.
Express yourself the way you are.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby René » 22 November 2019, 09:36

To quote Derek:
Derek wrote:Hell no

jonbennxo wrote:
Brasileiro wrote:There is also a difference between "wanting to be" and knowing you are and the body just does not fit. I do not take the "wanting to be" people serious, sorry. It sounds more like jealousy and unrealistic expectations. Especially when they talk about wanting to wake up as the opposite sex. And ATTRACTIVE.

Again, very early on, even kids (for the lack of knowledge/vocabulary) say "Mommy I want to be a girl". It's exactly as you said: "they already are a girl" (but they are only just discovering that hence the incorrect/clumsy use of language).

I think it's very important to note that research (as summarised here, here, here and here) indicates that, in the clear majority of cases (some 60 to 90%), such children eventually cease to identify as transgender/transsexual, and that in the case of boys, many end up identifying as gay men instead.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby NobodySpecial » 23 November 2019, 08:51

I have to say that this thread is very difficult to follow. I think if one is honest, they realize the way humans think is as varied as snowflakes.

For one thing, I have to say that I don't comprehend the whole trans thing. I have known some trans people. The saddest thing was one individual who said that their mother beat them for wearing her shoes. As odd as a male-child wearing heals may seem, they do not deserve to be beaten up over it. They are just children. I personally do not believe that someone born with a fully functional penis (works for sex as well as pro-creation) can be a woman. If they feel like a woman in side, then I'm fine with using terms like trans-woman if that is what they wish. Still I seem them apart from being simply women.

Case in point, I have a bad ear. I have spent a good deal of my life with an interest in music, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't have two "normal" ears. I can wish myself to feel like I have two ears, I could have plastic surgery in modern times that would be far superior to what I had in the 60's, but all it does is approximate what having two ears from birth is like. I don't like being reminded that I'm not "normal", but as long as someone doesn't treat me as an inferior, why should I not accept that I simply do not have two "natural" ears? As a deist, I do not consider myself to have a one-ear-ed soul, just like I do not have a "white" soul or a "gay" soul, or a male soul. I simply have a soul. I never could understand when I heard M->F individuals saying they have a female soul. I just don't raise one's gender to the level of a religion.

As to gender and sex, I think many forget that sex has two major purposes pro-creation and bonding. Just because someone has same-sex attraction (gay or bi) doesn't mean that they do not like children, or don't wish that it was possible to breed someone that they loved to create a new life.

One of the hardest things for me to accept was in my early 20's getting checked out, and realizing that I am VERY infertile. I had no choice. It too was part of my condition -- just like only have one ear, etc.

So as to a pill to be a woman, I would consider it only from a stand point if that meant I could reproduce. It would not be something I would wish for any reason other than pro-creation. I also wouldn't mind taking another pill to return back to male after the child is past the nursing stage.

I would also do the test-tube route for fertilization, as I just am not attracted to penises at all. Rather, I am attracted to men. As a gay man, I only find beauty in penises via the love I have for the man it is attached to -- in other words, cock cums with the territory of loving men.

If I was the creator, I would have created a creature that is all man -- hairy, muscular, manly, but with a cunt and balls -- not cock and balls.

Now does that mean I wish my partner could take a pill and turn himself into that? NO! Why? Because I love him, and he loves his cock, so I love him JUST the way he is. (Well I do wish he would change a few things such as giving up smoking so that he won't need another 5 by-passes caused from that habit, but then we all have our imperfections.)

Anyway, I just don't understand why anybody would want to change what is natural and fully functional. My ear deformity was not natural nor functional, but I will say this:: I dearly loved my grandma who raised me. She lived to be almost 100. There were times she would get a bit confused. At one point she confused me with a cousin. However, all I had to do was lift up the hair on my bad side, and let her see (and feel) my ear, and she snapped out of it and remembered me and all the surgeries I had. She wanted me to be able to easily wear glasses. (Sadly, I still don't wear glasses very easily.) For such moments with my grandma, it was worth it, because the most loving person I knew still remembered me. That recognition was priceless.

Sexually for myself, I loved being inside another guy. Not because I want to get my rock off-- to hell with the other person; Rather, I have multiple reasons, one of the biggest is that I feel a deep sense of being loved when a guy lets me inside of him. Even though I have ED now, those feelings are still there. I feel like there is a merger when I'm inside another MAN.

Now I have been on forums where some of the guys want to be mounted, but only as fem (sometimes referred to as being a sissy). That does absolutely nothing for me. Plus when I have sex, I like being nude with my partner. I don't want someone with goop all over their face, eyes, lips. I don't want a wig, starched hair. I don't want panties, bras with fake boobs, no nylons, no high heals, etc. I just want my naked body to be next to theirs. This whole thing with female props are SO fake. Plus it seems to me that it is about not accepting the fact that their is nothing physically, sexually, emotionally, or spiritually inferior or wrong with two men making love to each other. One does not need to "act" or "look" like a woman to somehow normalize it. ( I should also add that I couldn't understand the connection of skinny to fem. In the art world for centuries, feminine was referred to more as curvey, and some of the females in paintings were outright obese! )

Finally, as I am sure I have said before. A man who (as a man) bottoms because he loves or cares for YOU (the other man [as opposed to just any cock]), is the most beautiful thing in the world. We are told that anal sex is dirty, emasculating, sinful. Yes it can be dirty if there isn't time to prepare to clean out. Calling it sinful is simply using a term thrown out by people who are trapped in the dark ages. Rather such bottom men, are the most brave, and loving men I known and are not emasculated in anyway shape or form. My partner is an angel, and he is more masculine than I could ever hope to be.

Simply put bottom MEN make the world worth living in.
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby GearFetTwinkRomance » 24 November 2019, 14:55

Could someone explain the part of "treat one like a woman" vs. "treat them like a man", since I don't follow, what is meant by this. If gay men are in a loving relationship, one would imagine, they treat one another as men, naturally, unless they didn't have some role play feminise fetish or something.
I don't see why there should be a need to categorise men on men sex into roles that matter for heterosexual couples.
I think this is what may irritate a bit, one doesn't treat someone like a woman, if he's having sex with a man. Maybe I'm not smart enough to get the meaning of this "treat someone like a woman"-thing. :shrug:
I would want to treat the guy like a man would treat a man, if I knew one to be in love with.

Now we have certain people who will ask these funny questions of a gay couple, if they get to know one, like "Who is the woman if you're in the bed together?"
I would tell them, we don't need a woman. :D
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Re: Gay men - if you could, would you be a woman instead?

Unread postby kenzie_matt » 25 November 2019, 12:42

jonbennxo wrote:
Eryx wrote:I'm a total bottom myself and I'm happy about being a man

So you don't receive blowjobs, and you never top, correct? Because this is what I meant by being a "total bottom".

Total bottoms can receive blowjobs and really like them (in my experience). A total bottom is merely somebody who doesn't top - in other words, does not put his penis up another guy's ass. Clarity is best here.

Back to your original question. When I was young, I thought women were lucky in that they could have more fulfilling masturbation since they could have the sensations of sex without a man. Of course that was the folly of immaturity.

Apart from being obviously attached to my penis, I would hate to be without it. I think we, as men, have it easier in a lot of ways. As others have stated, there's more to being a woman than just sex though. So to me, a pill that made me a woman overnight would most likely rewire my brain in a lot of ways. I would agree to such a pill if it made me a woman for a week, merely so that I could better understand what it all entailed - that would be an awesome experiment! But no, I would not take one if the change was irreversible.
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