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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby Brenden » 6 June 2021, 23:09

Adolescent dating and sexual activity are consistently associated with risk for depression, yet the pathways underlying this association remain uncertain. Using data on 1,551 sibling pairs (ages 13-18) from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, the current study utilized a sibling comparison design to assess whether adolescent dating, sexual intercourse with a romantic partner, and sexual intercourse with a nonromantic partner were associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms independent of familial factors. Results indicated that adolescent dating, in and of itself, was not associated with depressive symptoms. The association between depressive symptoms and sexual activity with a romantic partner was fully accounted for by between-family genetic and shared environmental confounds. In contrast, sexual activity with a nonromantic partner was significantly associated with both mean levels of depressive symptoms and clinically severe depression, even within sibling dyads. This relationship was greater for younger adolescents (<15 years). These results are consistent with a growing body of research demonstrating that relationship contexts may be critical moderators of the psychosocial aspects of adolescent sexual experiences.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22985011/
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 6 June 2021, 23:28

Faulty methodology. It doesn’t account for alive versus dead partners.
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby Brenden » 6 June 2021, 23:30

Casual sexual relationships are relatively common in emerging adulthood. Yet the mental health implications of engaging in these relationships are unclear; past research has found negative associations, positive associations, or no association with mental health. In addition, little research has accounted for mental health status prior to entering casual sexual relationships. Using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (N = 12,401), we measured mental health prior to engaging in casual sexual relationships and subsequent mental health after engaging in these relationships. We found that suicidal ideation and depressive symptoms in adolescence were associated with entrance into casual sexual relationships in emerging adulthood. Furthermore, casual sexual relationships were associated with an increased likelihood of reporting suicidal ideation in emerging adulthood.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24168063/
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby Jzone » 6 June 2021, 23:49

So I can credit my emotional stability to the lack of sex in my teen years?
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby PopTart » 7 June 2021, 05:14

René wrote:
PopTart wrote:Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met. We all have a history.

Brenden and I did! We were each other's first sexual partner :)

And now your engaged in a three way relationship, hardly a typical or conventional circumstance, but I guess, that kind of unconventional is acceptable, because it's the one you engage in, but the unconventional others engage in?

Oh no, that's unacceptable.

I do wonder how many studies I might find that denounce, romantic and sexual, three way relationships in support of an arguement, that your chosen lifestyle is not only invalid, but dangerous (yes I read ahead :P )

poolerboy0077 wrote:
René wrote:
PopTart wrote:Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met. We all have a history.

Brenden and I did! We were each other's first sexual partner :)

Whores.

I’m going to church now and I’ll pray for you both. :oface:
You do realise that the local glory hole doesn't count as a church right? No matter how much you prostrate yourself?

Brenden wrote:
Casual sexual relationships are relatively common in emerging adulthood. Yet the mental health implications of engaging in these relationships are unclear; past research has found negative associations, positive associations, or no association with mental health. In addition, little research has accounted for mental health status prior to entering casual sexual relationships. Using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (N = 12,401), we measured mental health prior to engaging in casual sexual relationships and subsequent mental health after engaging in these relationships. We found that suicidal ideation and depressive symptoms in adolescence were associated with entrance into casual sexual relationships in emerging adulthood. Furthermore, casual sexual relationships were associated with an increased likelihood of reporting suicidal ideation in emerging adulthood.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24168063/
Oh, you found a study! I recall a litany of studies that found homosexuality in general, was harmful and aberrant as recently as the 1980's.

No reflection on your part then? Just a scramble for defense?

You realise ofcourse, that i can probably find a study that says romantic homosexual relationships involving more than two people, are also found to be harmful. There are still studies that find honosexuality objectionable.

You could try... it's just a suggestion, but maybe lifting your head out of studies, papers and data charts and try talking to actual people? With actual experiences.
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby poolerboy0077 » 7 June 2021, 06:25

PopTart wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
René wrote:
PopTart wrote:Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met. We all have a history.

Brenden and I did! We were each other's first sexual partner :)

Whores.

I’m going to church now and I’ll pray for you both. :oface:
You do realise that the local glory hole doesn't count as a church right? No matter how much you prostrate yourself?

Clearly I was referring to Church’s Chicken. :oface:
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby René » 7 June 2021, 11:12

PopTart wrote:
René wrote:
PopTart wrote:Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met. We all have a history.

Brenden and I did! We were each other's first sexual partner :)

And now your engaged in a three way relationship, hardly a typical or conventional circumstance, but I guess, that kind of unconventional is acceptable, because it's the one you engage in, but the unconventional others engage in?

Oh no, that's unacceptable.

I do wonder how many studies I might find that denounce, romantic and sexual, three way relationships in support of an arguement, that your chosen lifestyle is not only invalid, but dangerous (yes I read ahead :P )

Huh? I didn't denounce anything except the universal statement that "Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met".

In case you're genuinely interested, I don't care about typical or conventional, but, having said that, findings from a demographically representative sample of adults in the United States show that 1 out of 6 people (16.8%) desire to engage in polyamory, and 1 out of 9 people (10.7%) have engaged in polyamory at some point during their life — both several times higher than the proportion of people who identify as gay, bi or lesbian (5%).

Beyond demographics, within the peer-reviewed academic literature, I find evidence that we are discriminated against, e.g. in Canada, though courts typically consider this unjust and are fighting this, recently e.g. ruling that in writing provincial family law the legislature had not properly taken into account polyamorous families and ordering that a third partner be recognised with full parental rights and responsibilities and listed on a birth certificate.

Research is very limited, but there is also evidence indicating that polyamorous people tend to have, if anything, more secure attachment than most (i.e., lower in anxiety and avoidance).

This is all I've found so far. As far as I can tell, the answer to your wonder is zero. Indeed, it would be highly inappropriate for a research paper to denounce people's love and relationships as invalid, and I should think such a paper would certainly not be accepted for publication in any reputable scientific journal.

Finally, I resent your use of the word "lifestyle". I would argue whom I love is no more a lifestyle than whom you love. (My lifestyle involves mainly a lot of work to provide for my household, some TV, YouTube, music, friends, family, board games, love, cuddles, sex, walks, holding hands. Number here is as arbitrary a distinction as sex/gender.)

PopTart wrote:
Brenden wrote:
Casual sexual relationships are relatively common in emerging adulthood. Yet the mental health implications of engaging in these relationships are unclear; past research has found negative associations, positive associations, or no association with mental health. In addition, little research has accounted for mental health status prior to entering casual sexual relationships. Using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (N = 12,401), we measured mental health prior to engaging in casual sexual relationships and subsequent mental health after engaging in these relationships. We found that suicidal ideation and depressive symptoms in adolescence were associated with entrance into casual sexual relationships in emerging adulthood. Furthermore, casual sexual relationships were associated with an increased likelihood of reporting suicidal ideation in emerging adulthood.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24168063/
Oh, you found a study! I recall a litany of studies that found homosexuality in general, was harmful and aberrant as recently as the 1980's.

No reflection on your part then? Just a scramble for defense?

You realise ofcourse, that i can probably find a study that says romantic homosexual relationships involving more than two people, are also found to be harmful. There are still studies that find honosexuality objectionable.

You could try... it's just a suggestion, but maybe lifting your head out of studies, papers and data charts and try talking to actual people? With actual experiences.

As far as first-hand accounts are concerned, we hear from plenty of people on this very forum about miserable experiences with casual sex and sadness that all the gay guys they can find only seem to be interested in sex, not love or relationships. But that's not a representative sample. You need research to know the truth. Can you truly not conceive of the possibility that there is an impact on people, not necessarily on you but taken in aggregate? An association? Even though you may not like that thought?

You don't get to use memories of supposed references to outdated, biased "studies" (which you've not even bothered to cite) apparently from almost half a century ago, to refute research performed in the last 10 years using a nationally representative sample of 12,401 Americans and published in a leading peer-reviewed academic journal on the study of human sexuality.
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby PopTart » 7 June 2021, 16:44

René wrote:
PopTart wrote:
René wrote:
PopTart wrote:Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met. We all have a history.

Brenden and I did! We were each other's first sexual partner :)

And now your engaged in a three way relationship, hardly a typical or conventional circumstance, but I guess, that kind of unconventional is acceptable, because it's the one you engage in, but the unconventional others engage in?

Oh no, that's unacceptable.

I do wonder how many studies I might find that denounce, romantic and sexual, three way relationships in support of an arguement, that your chosen lifestyle is not only invalid, but dangerous (yes I read ahead :P )

Huh? I didn't denounce anything except the universal statement that "Long gone are the days when anyone settled with the first person they ever met".
Fair play :D I guess I was aiming that one at Brenden but firing across your bow (it was pre-work and I was getting dressed while replying, so two birds one stone) But I would point out that you too share Brendens views, albeit, you don't make a habit of shaming people who live the lifestyle you disagree with. That is what is most egregrious here.

René wrote:In case you're genuinely interested, I don't care about typical or conventional, but, having said that, findings from a demographically representative sample of adults in the United States show that 1 out of 6 people (16.8%) desire to engage in polyamory, and 1 out of 9 people (10.7%) have engaged in polyamory at some point during their life — both several times higher than the proportion of people who identify as gay, bi or lesbian (5%).
Indeed.

René wrote:Beyond demographics, within the peer-reviewed academic literature, I find evidence that we are discriminated against, e.g. in Canada, though courts typically consider this unjust and are fighting this, recently e.g. ruling that in writing provincial family law the legislature had not properly taken into account polyamorous families and ordering that a third partner be recognised with full parental rights and responsibilities and listed on a birth certificate.
Once again, interesting. I do find it quite distressing when people discriminate, for any reason. For example, against those that might choose a lifestyle someone else doesn't approve of, for whatever reason. I couldn't imagine what rationalisations one must conceptualise, to legitimise the stigmatisation of others, simply choosing to live their lives in the manner in which they choose. Surely we can do better, no?

René wrote:Research is very limited, but there is also evidence indicating that polyamorous people tend to have, if anything, more secure attachment than most (i.e., lower in anxiety and avoidance).
That is great to know. I think, when people enter into any kind of relationship, if they do so from a position of personal stability and clarity of purpose, their relationships are going to be both, happier and more fulfilling. If only all relationships, both commited and casual, could be entered into, so well equipped. I think it is marvelous that we have this broad and wonderful diversity of choices and options in life and hope that society can continue to demonstrate tolerance, understanding and respect for the choices others might make, no matter how much we might find those choices unpalatable.

René wrote:This is all I've found so far. As far as I can tell, the answer to your wonder is zero. Indeed, it would be highly inappropriate for a research paper to denounce people's love and relationships as invalid, and I should think such a paper would certainly not be accepted for publication in any reputable scientific journal.
I'm not sure that historically, that has been the case. As I state, it wasn't until very recently, that homosexuality, was considered by most western mental health institions, as anything more than an illness, such relationships as harmful or at the very least, dysfunctional. Ofcourse, times have changed and what is tolerable to say openly, has changed too. But we can still find studies that make similar claims. Such as sexuality being a choice. That being gay is a lifestyle choice etc.b There are plenty of people who would disagree with such papers. Ofcourse.

But the comparison I draw, is not to suggest that your love is less valid, for encompassing more than one other person. But that while you demand acceptance and toleration from those that adhere to more conventional ideals, for your specific brand of non-conventional, in the same breath, you denounce the legitmate choice that others make in relation to how they conduct themselves in their relations with others.

There is a double standard here, no? It could be argued that those in glass houses, perhaps, shouldn't cast stones. That being unconventional in your own life choices (which I do not find illegitimate, nor, even if I did, would I seek to shame you or launch into arguements for why your personal choice was wrong and harmful or how I felt contempt for the pittiable broken person you must be, for making such a harmful choice) That perhapd having made unconventional choices, you would have some empathy, understanding and tolerance for those that also make, different, unconventional choices. I guess that's just asking too much.

René wrote:Finally, I resent your use of the word "lifestyle". I would argue whom I love is no more a lifestyle than whom you love. (My lifestyle involves mainly a lot of work to provide for my household, some TV, YouTube, music, friends, family, board games, love, cuddles, sex, walks, holding hands. Number here is as arbitrary a distinction as sex/gender.)
Yet you are and Brenden both, are more than happy to tar the connections I might have with people, on a casual basis, as being lifestyle choices and worse besides. If we are going to begin to take exception and umbrage at what people are saying in this discussion. How about the implicit suggestions that someone like myself, is venal, degenerate, lonesome and contemptible, or does the offense only travel one way on this issue, since you both labour under a presumption, that you hold the moral high ground? Just to clarify, I'm not greatly bothered by the implied sentiments. I've listened silently for years as you and Brenden both sneer with contempt for anyone who favours a casual sex lifestyle, seemingly blissfully ignorant that, a person you claim to be a friend, has been happily living that same lifestyle. It does raise questions about how exactly you regard a person like myself, when you each express the views and attitudes that you do. How am I supposed to take that?

You feel resentment? When was the last time I cast aspersions towards the lifestyle choices you make? Last time I checked, I was full of support and encouragement, even if, in all honesty, the choice you make, is strange and unusual to me and wouldn't be one I would choose for myself. Yet have I ever suggested anything even leastways negative about the lifestyle you choose to live? And yes, Rene. It is a lifestyle. That you can love deeply and meaningfully in that lifestyle choice, I would have thought, goes without saying. Perhaps in this, I was wrong. Perhaps as I was in so many other assumptions I made in relation to Brenden and yourself. How very sad. If only I had realised before now. What low esteem you must hold me and those like me.

René wrote:
PopTart wrote:
Brenden wrote:Casual sexual relationships are relatively common in emerging adulthood. Yet the mental health implications of engaging in these relationships are unclear; past research has found negative associations, positive associations, or no association with mental health. In addition, little research has accounted for mental health status prior to entering casual sexual relationships. Using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (N = 12,401), we measured mental health prior to engaging in casual sexual relationships and subsequent mental health after engaging in these relationships. We found that suicidal ideation and depressive symptoms in adolescence were associated with entrance into casual sexual relationships in emerging adulthood. Furthermore, casual sexual relationships were associated with an increased likelihood of reporting suicidal ideation in emerging adulthood.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24168063/
Oh, you found a study! I recall a litany of studies that found homosexuality in general, was harmful and aberrant as recently as the 1980's.

No reflection on your part then? Just a scramble for defense?


PopTart wrote:
René wrote:
You realise ofcourse, that i can probably find a study that says romantic homosexual relationships involving more than two people, are also found to be harmful. There are still studies that find honosexuality objectionable.

You could try... it's just a suggestion, but maybe lifting your head out of studies, papers and data charts and try talking to actual people? With actual experiences.

As far as first-hand accounts are concerned, we hear from plenty of people on this very forum about miserable experiences with casual sex and sadness that all the gay guys they can find only seem to be interested in sex, not love or relationships. But that's not a representative sample. You need research to know the truth. Can you truly not conceive of the possibility that there is an impact on people, not necessarily on you but taken in aggregate? An association? Even though you may not like that thought
I would like to refer you, Rene, to this sentence I wrote, in this very thread, not one day past... attend:

PopTart wrote:Does harm come from the pressure people feel to live upto (or downto, in your estimination, I assume) a particular lifestyle (one might say stereotype?) If so, then there is something to this arguement, but I again, would say, the problem is not that some people wish to indulge in casual sex, which is perfectly legitimate and fine, but that others assume that in order to fit into a certain group, they must adopt that behaviour aswell, to qualify.
Here I clearly concede that there is room for a link to be made, but that I dispute the cause of harm. That the harm is not casual sex itself, but the state of mind of those that choose to engage in casual sex, when perhaps, they are not in a position to do so in a healthy fashion.


René wrote:You don't get to use memories of supposed references to outdated, biased "studies" (which you've not even bothered to cite) apparently from almost half a century ago, to refute research performed in the last 10 years using a nationally representative sample of 12,401 Americans and published in a leading peer-reviewed academic journal on the study of human sexuality.
Ofcourse not. I note, that people are very fond these days, of using the term "lived experience" but it has become abundantly clear to me, that "lived experience" is only admissable in any debate or dialectic, when it's the right kind. Specifically, the kind that agrees with your position.

Forgive me for not citing the litany of studies, I thought, you too would need no reference too, you having knowledge of their like, in numerous debates with visitors to this very site, that have sought to use said studies to de-legitimise our shared sexuality. Oh, what folly, that I might expect an arguement in good faith, from one I presumed a friend no less. :toogay:

The fact that studies, now, just as then, are quite clearly capable of being influenced by politics, cultural and personal biases, surely has no bearing when calling into question, the first study one found using google, to prop up their position, rather than countenance, that maybe one was being unreasonable and rude.

You, see. I am not the one, demonstrating intolerance and a complete lack of flexibility in my opinion or viewpoint. It would be nice if it wasn't too much to ask for, that, if not an open mind, from Brenden and it seems yourself on this matter, you might refrain from implying that those of us who make life choices that you don't like, not be made to feel like scum.

I wouldn't have thought it was such a big ask. But, to my surprise, apparently it is.
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby René » 8 June 2021, 19:49

I'd just like to mention PopTart, Brenden and I talked privately and worked out a number of misunderstandings, and all is well. :keke:
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby PopTart » 9 June 2021, 19:01

That we did! :P

Sorry to derail your thread OP.
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby Anno_boy » 9 June 2021, 19:22

No problem, i got my answer!
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Re: Hookup to lose virginity

Unread postby Eryx » 12 June 2021, 14:15

Stick around! It's fun like this all the time.
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