Sick family relations

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Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 8 May 2020, 09:37

Hey, I have a situation because of which I feel terrible. My dad is cheating on my mum with... me. I enjoy it so much, he’s the best Man that i’ve ever slept with, but I dunno what should I do. Please help :(
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 8 May 2020, 10:23

...I've got nothing. I have no experience to reference from.

On one hand:
1. incest is taboo.
2. mom would be unhappy if she found out
3. it's not something you bring up in polite company

On the other hand:
1. He can try as much as he want but he won't get you pregnant
2. age difference is not as much of a taboo in gay culture
3. father-son roleplay is a recognized fetish

I'd say that first you should ask yourself if you really trust him and feel safe with him, or are you being used and abused? Would he leave you alone if you felt uncomfortable or would he force you to change your mind or convince you you liked it? Do you remember how it started, and how old you were? Are you asking us for advice because you feel ashamed that you like it, or that deep down you really want to stop?
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 8 May 2020, 10:42

Hey, thanks for Your reply!
Well the fact is that yeah, I do trust him, he’s my best buddy, I feel very well with him next to me, but I think that our relation would get way worse if I told him I don’t want it to be this way anymore, but the fact is that I enjoy it a lot what makes me feel terrible, ashamed, etc.
It all started when I was 15, so five years ago, his initiative.
I feel that it shouldn’t be this way, if You know what I mean. That’s why I completely do not know what to do :(
Sorry for bothering U all :(
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 8 May 2020, 14:54

It's not a bother, part of the whole reason we are here is to help.

It... Does sound concerning that he initiated sexual relations with you when you were only 15. In many countries that's below the age of consent for a very good reason - that at that age you're too young to be able to define boundaries and have a good understanding of what you really want. You are 20 now? So by now you'd be starting to develop a more mature personality and reassessing things you've done or liked when you were younger.
What is your support network like? Who else in your life do you trust? Do you think that your dad may be steering you away from trusting friends and family?

I'm not a trained counsellor, and so I'm not sure what would be the best thing to do. But it does sound like you were taken advantage of when you were too young to know any better. You have likely grown up really dependant on your father, and I don't know how you feel when you're away from him. Are you done school? Are you able to move out and work on your own? You might want to look into finding a trained counsellor or therapist to talk to, hopefully one that is part of a free service or inexpensive. Doing so will over time become a necessity, but will mark a new and strange and scary part of your life where you will have to reassess your relationship with your dad and what that has done to your teenage years and young adulthood. But first you need to figure out who you can trust and talk to, because the change is going to be painful.

Talking to us is a good first step, but you might want to find out if there's an anonymous mental health phone line you can call.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 8 May 2020, 15:18

Thanks for replying!

Well, in my country (Poland) the age of consent is 15 so at least it wasn’t against the law, but yeah, it seems to be a bit too fast.

The fact is that I have a few friends but none of them is as close to me as daddy is, most of them even don’t know that I’m gay, but daddy always told me that there’s nothing wrong with the fact that he’s the closest one to me.
Whenever he’s not close to me, I feel a bit worried and sad, I like his presence next to me, kinda need it, but he has nothing against my meetings with other guys for example, he just wants to know how was it, with details.

Right now I’m studying, but he asked me to choose my hometown university and still live in family house, and so I did and still do.

You think I should try finding a solution with a specialist? I’ll try to, but I’m kinda afraid, especially that Poland is not a very lgbt-friendly country, and I’ve read about many cases of discrimination from specialists. But I will!
Thank You so much for everything! ❤️
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Eryx » 8 May 2020, 18:20

Personally I don't have as many issues with gay incest as other people might, the issue I have with this story is the cheating. No matter how much you seem to like your dad romantically, don't you love your mother as the person who birthed you and raised you? Do you think it's fair that your dad and you are so selfish that you simply do not care about how heartbroken and distraught she might be if she ever finds out about this?

If you want to be with your father romantically, that's your problem and your feelings, it's going to be doubly hard because of 1) You being Polish and 2) Him being your father, but those are challenges that can be beaten if you are careful enough. What I can't stand is the fact that you're both lying in your mother's face and doing this on her back. She's your MOTHER. Do things right. Tell your father to get a fucking divorce and buy a condo for you two. Do the right thing.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 8 May 2020, 19:34

Hey! Thanks for Your response.
The fact is that I do love my mother and that is one of the main reasons I feel terrible about all of that and feel completely lost, not knowing what to do :(
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 8 May 2020, 22:40

Here in Alberta there is a noteable pressure to act "straight" and so there are a few guy that are married to woman but prefer to be with men. I was thinking that you were in America where there was decent LGBT rights and resources available. Poland is a little more hostile to LGBT, and I don't know what resources would be available, and so I'd like to revise my recommendation based on that.

I can understand that you wouldn't want to hurt your mother by telling her, and your dad likely knows better than you how scary it can be to be gay in your country. But he can look your mother in the eye and honestly tell her that he loves her and no other woman - even if that's more as a very best friend then a lover.

I'm in a culture where I can be openly gay and largely feel safe accessing public resources as a gay man, and that would have affected my advice. Having two unrelated men hang out all the time and be close could be suspicious, but a father and son spending time together and from an outsider's view having a close relationship doesn't raise as many questions.

Is part of the reason why you feel safe with you dad is that you two share a world where you can be yourselves without fear?

In all honesty, I can't tell you what you should do. I can see the logic in your situation being the safest situation for two gay men in a country that does not like gay men. Maybe your mother knows but pretends not to notice as she knows it's the safest situation? Mothers can be pretty smart when that aren't bought by the scripture.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 8 May 2020, 22:54

Hey!
Well, I know that daddy loves my mother like no other woman, that’s true.
Also, You’re so lucky to have such culture around You! Unfortunately especially now that’s not an option here :(
And yeah, the fact that we two can be ourselves without fear strengthens my feelings towards him.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 8 May 2020, 22:59

I think the main thing is that you trust your dad and feel safe with him, and he likely trusts you and feels safe with you. It's not ideal, but it may be the best option.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 8 May 2020, 23:01

So, it should stay the way it is?
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 9 May 2020, 01:34

Do you want it to stay the way it is?
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 9 May 2020, 05:07

Well, I know that it’s wrong and for the reasons mentioned above it makes me feel bad, but I love him like no other person in the world and would love to keep it the way it is, but still I’m not sure if I should :(
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 9 May 2020, 07:55

Honestly? I don't know. Thinking about it I'm starting to Realize that I may be giving pretty terrible advice. And me doing so has taken charge of the dialogue so other members of the forum are more hesitant to chime in. I realize that I know very little of gay Polish culture, and and assuming it receives hostility that can be life-threatening. I fear that being open about it and stopping might cause a lot of harm and destroy your family. But I also fear that keeping it a secret will mess with your head and make grow up with unhealthy relationship issues.
The former will cause a lot of pain for the next few years that might fade into a dull ache over time, with the stigma being held against you whenever it's remembered. The latter may grow to be more difficult over time to deal with and may one day explode when your secret is accidentally discovered.

Do you have any idea how your relationship with your dad might look like in 10 or 20 years? Is your dad willing to accept that one day you will only want him to be your dad and not your partner?

(plus I don't really feel disturbed by it - and honestly find it a tiny little bit kinky. But I dont have a close connection with my own dad so I can't relate)
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 9 May 2020, 08:06

Hey! Thanks for your response!

Yeah, I am well aware of the fact that his look’s gonna change, but that doesn’t matter, I don’t love him the way I do because of the way he looks like (although he is a very handsome Man, and he’s still kinda young, because he’s only 21 years older than I am)

When it comes to the other question, I’m not sure. Meaning, I’ve had other partners in my life, and daddy had nothing against them, but in the meantime he was always reminding me that I’m the most important person to him and that he should be the same to me. None of those relations last for long, I just could not be as attracted to others as to daddy, what makes me even more confused. :(
(Oh and sorry for my poor English, that’s my third language and I’m still learning :c)
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby betonhaus » 9 May 2020, 08:25

No worries about your English, it is clear and perfectly understandable. And you know 2.9 languages while I only know 1.
I think one thing to keep in mind that us being gay, we are all defining a new normal for ourselves that is not shared by people around us. There are a lot of gay men who feel like they need to be ashemed to be interested in other men at all, and have to keep it secret from family members they are close to. I haven't really seen a consensus as to what a "gay normal" would even be - some guys have lots of partners, some guys have one that they love but still sleep with other partners, and some are exclusive to only the one man they are with. The man you love literally being your daddy is rare, but not much further out then a relationship between two different men where the younger one calls the older one daddy.

And you are only 20. You are still pretty young, and nobody should expect you to know the perfect way to handle any situation. You're going to college and have a plan for the future, and you have close ties with your family. Those two things are good.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 9 May 2020, 08:33

Woah, thank You, I feel way better now! Maybe it’s not gonna be that bad in my life! We’re having a date in a moment, I’m so glad You calmed me down!
Thank You so much! ❤️
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby PopTart » 9 May 2020, 10:22

Betonhaus's advice, is likely some of the best and most even handed your likely to get on your issue.

I would stand to say, that like Eryx, I don't have any moral objection with incest between same sex people either and Betonhaus is correct that there isn't really a well defined "normal" anymore, gay or straight. So if your asking yourself if you "should" feel ashamed, when you don't, which in turn, makes you feel ashamed for not feeling that way :P (Yeah, I know, our minds can be weird that way) you don't need to feel ashamed, either for the relationship you have or for NOT being ashamed about it in the first place.

If you are comfortable and happy in this situation, thats all that matters on that front.

On the relationship side of things, I would add, to be honest with yourself about what your expectations are. Do you see yourself having a meaningful fully fledged relationship with your father? Do you see him leaving your mother for you? Setting up house together? Is that what you want or not? Because I'm not entirely convinced that will be possible. Do you envision developing other relationships, outside of the one you have with your dad? How would that work? Would your potential other partners, be aware of your relationship with your dad or not? Would you be able to maintain that level of deception in your life and not have it negatively impact you? Do you understand what that would mean for those in your life that were misled?

I would also suggest, you consider the long term implications of keeping this secret relationship going, both to yourself and to your family, in the event it ever came out. Are you comfortable with the prospect of harbouring this secret and sneaking around for what could be, a really long time? Are you aware of the potential fallout, should your mother ever discover the truth?

These are all tough questions that are likely not easy to answer, but only you can answer them. Those answers will likely help to inform any further choices you make, about the direction of the relationship you have with your father and where that will go.
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby Stud21 » 9 May 2020, 10:56

Hey, thanks for response!

If I’m to be completely honest, I love him so much I’d like to be the only one to him, but unfortunately I know that’s impossible. I’ve just spoken with him and he told me that divorce is a no-go, what made me feel sad on the one hand (only one because well that’s my family and I know I shouldn’t want to destroy it)

When I’m thinking about my future, he’s always there next to me, I can’t (and don’t want to tbh) imagine any other scenario.
When it comes to the other potencial relations, I’m not convinced that I’d like to try them. My heart beats for this one person and I doubt it’ll ever stop :(
Also, I would not want to be again in a situation when I’m in a relationship with another guy and still sleep with my father etc, as it used to be.

(Btw I’m trying to find a therapist or counsellor or anyone like that, but that’s extremely hard due to the virus, and lack of lgbt-friendly specialists :c)

Sorry for wasting so much of Your precious time on this topic :c I’m just so lost :c
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Re: Sick family relations

Unread postby PopTart » 9 May 2020, 11:48

I really can't believe I'm going to say this. but be very cautious with a therapist. There are many that would see a problem with the relationship you have with your dad and might seek to lead you to a similar conclusion.

Be sure the therapist outlines what they might say outside of your sessions, to people in your life. I don't know what the rules are in Poland, but there may be laws that require a therapist to disclose relationships that are seen as harmful or morally objectionable, to authorities. It would be unusual but we live in unusual times and always go into a situation with all the information you can find.

You don't want to pore your heart out to some one, seeking help and guidance, just for them to throw a grenade into your life. Be aware and protect yourself.
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