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Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 26 April 2020, 02:48
by lufia
mrmadness wrote:The word "gay Christian" doesn't hit the ears right to many people, because to most people it sounds like an oxymoron. But, for me I think the notion that one has to be an atheist if one is gay should be challenged. A person's religious beliefs should not be up for debate, because that can be a very discomforting experience for a person. Whether an individual wants to believe in heaven or hell, God, Jesus, and sin is totally up to them. I think labelling oneself as a Christian shouldn't invite judgement if that person happens to be gay. But, I want to ask people on this forum a few questions: can one be gay and Christian? Should these notions of excluding gay people from religion be challenged? And, how do people on this forum feel about religiosity in a gay person's life?


That's a question that each person has to answer for themselves. I can only speak from my own experience. I was once a devout Christian. I was a member of Southern Baptist congregation, and I taught a Royal Ambassadors class, and taught Sunday School at 15. I even got counselor of the year at Kids Khoir Kamp one year. I realized that I was trans at a young age, fantasized about being fucked for the first time at 13, and realized that I was definitely bi-sexual around 15. As a devout Christian, I was extremely conflicted when I realized I was attracted to men. I was afraid of going to hell. I brought the issue up with my preacher in generalized terms, and asked him what would happen to a gay Christian who was a good person. He said there is no such thing. He told me that if a person is truly a Christian, then they would not engage in homosexual activity. He said all homosexuals go to hell, whether they are a good person or not. I threw my Bible away that night, and never returned. Once I began to think about it, none of it made any sense. The Bible says that all sins are equal in God's eyes. It also said that Jesus counted thieves and prostitutes among his closest confidants. I also says that God is a loving and forgiving God, yet my preacher said that all gay people go to hell, as if it's an unforgivable sin. If the Bible is the literal word of God as many Christians believe, how can we pick and choose which parts to follow and which parts to ignore? The Bible says that adultery and stealing are sins, but no one will say that they are unforgivable. If they are forgivable, then why isn't homosexuality? He also told me that transgendered people will go to hell, even if they are not homosexual, even though there is not one word in the Bible about transgendered people. I've gone off on a long diatribe here, but I guess the point I am making is that according to the Bible you can be a Christian if you believe. The Bible says that we are sinners and that God accepts our flaws if we truly seek forgiveness. Unfortunately most mainstream Christian denominations have perverted the teachings of the Bible to suit their own teachings and political aspirations. Personally, as nearly every Christian denomination opposes any form of equal rights for gay and transgendered people, I could never support it or be a part of it. If you truly believe in God and want to study the Bible and worship on your own, then there is nothing wrong with being a gay Christian. I just wouldn't support any churches or affiliate myself with any particular denomination.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 26 April 2020, 05:01
by poolerboy0077
The Bible is a problematic work of literature that needs to be edited to be more inclusive. It’s main protagonists are all anointed (read: privileged) straight males—and worse still, they’re Israeli Zionists! Where are the women of color? Not once did it ever occur to these scribes to add a disabled, black or Latinx trans woman as the central figure. Hell, even the Marvel Universe has more diversity and it’s only been around since they last century. The only homoerotic themes in the book are just dog whistles for homophobia (e.g., Judas’ kiss or not mixing dairy and meat).

As I’ve mentioned in the past, there are plenty of opportunities for LGBT themes to be interwoven into its storylines but they have been defiantly rejected to once again preserve these patriarchal, oppressive systems of power. So it isn’t enough for you to simply become a gay Christian. You should use your position to empower these silenced voices. Edit the Bible, but don’t simply revise—reimagine. You can invite your friends and treat this like slash, theophilia fanfic. Arianna Grande made God into woman. Be the one to make God a disabled trans vegan powerbottom.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 26 April 2020, 16:44
by Magic J
lufia wrote:If you truly believe in God and want to study the Bible and worship on your own, then there is nothing wrong with being a gay Christian. I just wouldn't support any churches or affiliate myself with any particular denomination.

I suppose that a problem here arises in that religion, to most people, is fundamentally about community, rather than just belief. I do wonder if one can be Christian without associating oneself with a larger church body, whether that's an institution or just a group of others who share your convictions. I'm unsure.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 26 April 2020, 20:30
by GearFetTwinkRomance
I probably shouldn't answer to this. :shrug:
I had a very hard time to fight my way out of religion and so called Christianity, I was rather lucky to survive their catholic, clerical fascism while youth. So also my views onto this subject have grown more and more toward the thesis of religion to be a psycho-manipulative, introjected type of mental impairment, at most sort of a diet program or delusion for the mind.

The Roman Catholics lead a corporation. All them lies they told. They're still telling lies and threaten people, if it comes to all the shit they have done. Too many pedophiles, in their system, too, and they all keep paying for that and say it wasn't true. If all the now grown kids could just put one bloody finger print on every church building, the buildings would collapse from the blood's soak.

If they go against gay people to condemn their nature, they never do it about people that eat sea food in the very same way, or some, that grow different crops on the same field and wear garment made from different fibres. They never want these dead just the same. It's all phony! :lol:

I think religion can be excluded from gay people's life by choice, and one does not need such to govern one's life or one's principles. No need of religion to be a good person, one also can be a real arsehole and does not need religion to be it. ;)
Mental health seems to work much better without the troubles that religious ideas can put one through

I try to think of all the "holy books" somewhere next to Star Trek or maybe the Edda, Gilgamesh epos, the story of how the raven pecked the land and how all the people, animals and trees and rocks came forth, it's all mythology, and I wonder, how come that people are so serious about certain types of myth, while they make fun of the more serious ones, like space reptilians, ore the recent one of the pangolin people, Church of the flying spaghetti monster and them likes.

I'm an infidel, a non believer. I fought my way out and away from delusion.
There's a cure.
I still 'believe' you can cook good stew from half a pound of venison, if you do it right, though. :D

Other I had to say, I'll rather choose to be alone until I die, if I had to be together with a religious gay guy. Especially nothing of the Abrahamic, monotheistic realms.

No way. No need left.

If others feel the need, it's their own fault. I mean, choice. Just don't bother me and go some place else to inflict onto yourself, please.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 26 April 2020, 22:29
by Magic J
GearFetTwinkRomance wrote:I try to think of all the "holy books" somewhere next to Star Trek or maybe the Edda, Gilgamesh epos, the story of how the raven pecked the land and how all the people, animals and trees and rocks came forth, it's all mythology, and I wonder, how come that people are so serious about certain types of myth, while they make fun of the more serious ones, like space reptilians, ore the recent one of the pangolin people, Church of the flying spaghetti monster and them likes.

These are the most deadly serious matters. The Christian Mysteries are small fry in comparison. God really didn't know what he was getting himself into with this reality business. He had a good run, but there's shinier ontologies setting up shop. Ontologies featuring aliens and spooky techno-magic, like you say. Much cooler than what He's selling. Better up His game.

I'm at the moment inclined towards Zenny, Taoisty nonsense with Last Thursdayist characteristics. Much to chew on in this life, and Jesus just don't cut it. For instance, there's something going on with monkeys that is currently of paramount concern. I'll let you know if I get to the bottom of it.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 27 April 2020, 16:45
by Jryski
The words gay and christian don’t go together at all. But having said so, I do think the gay christianity stuff help some gay people that grew up under christian oppression live as a gay person without the paralyzing guilt of being this awful sinner. It’s like placebo to help them deal with trauma and brainwashing.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 27 April 2020, 17:10
by Severelius
There are just so many cooler religions that exist or have existed that people could choose to be part of (because despite what some people say your religion is entirely a matter of your choice) that don't have any hang-ups at all about homosexuality the way that the major Abrahamic faiths do.

Like why be a Christian and have to constantly do mental gymnastics to justify your belief in a faith system that vilifies your sexuality when you could instead worship the Greek pantheon who by the very nature of the deities and the culture of their native historical context categorically either at the very least didn't give a shit about the diversity of human sexuality, or actively were totally into it?

There's loads of mythology around the Greek pantheon that has deities in homosexual love interest shenanigans and actively encouraging homoexual relationships, the whole 'Achilles was totally gay and the entire Trojan War story makes no sense if you try and pretend otherwise' thing, not to mention Zeus being basically the Patron Saint of Indiscriminate Dickings.

I may have got hung up on the Greek pantheon there because it's kick-ass but the larger point stands: You can worship any religion you want so I don't get why people stick with ones that have a terrible track record in regards to sexuality.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 27 April 2020, 17:53
by Jryski
I think of it kind of like stockholm syndrome.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 27 April 2020, 22:29
by Magic J
Jryski wrote:It’s like placebo to help them deal with trauma and brainwashing.

Religion: the cause and the cure to all of your trauma!

Christianity seems like the most socially acceptable abusive relationship on the market, to be honest.

Nobody needs that kind of influence in their life. Instead, just hail Eris. It's literally that simple! :awesome:

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 27 April 2020, 23:19
by poolerboy0077
Severelius wrote:I may have got hung up on the Greek pantheon there because it's kick-ass but the larger point stands: You can worship any religion you want so I don't get why people stick with ones that have a terrible track record in regards to sexuality.

I know, it’s so weird. It’s almost as if religions are adhered to based on how convinced they are of it.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 12:22
by Magic J
Severelius wrote:...despite what some people say your religion is entirely a matter of your choice...

"Choice" is the difficult word, here. We make choices, but not under conditions of our own choosing, as some dirty beard man used to say. Challenging the worldview you've been immersed in and formed by is extremely difficult. I suggest that this should be kept in mind if we're to criticise with empathy (i.e, effectively).

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 13:11
by azureflame
I quit religion when I was a kid but this same question stayed with me for a long time. In the end, I just came to the realization that it doesn't matter even if it was a sin. Everyone has a sin that they won't ask forgiveness for. It can be something very big or very small but everyone lives in sin. So you shouldn't feel like you don't belong as a christian just cause you are gay.

I believe the most important thing is to live in peace with yourself. Be a good person to others. Help whenever you can. I mean, a lot of the beliefs in the Bible aren't enforced now because they are just crazy. If being gay was something really awful, then it would have been written as the eleventh commandment or Jesus would have said something about it. AFAIK, he just said to love others without any conditions.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 13:22
by Severelius
Magic J wrote:
Severelius wrote:...despite what some people say your religion is entirely a matter of your choice...

"Choice" is the difficult word, here. We make choices, but not under conditions of our own choosing, as some dirty beard man used to say. Challenging the worldview you've been immersed in and formed by is extremely difficult. I suggest that this should be kept in mind if we're to criticise with empathy (i.e, effectively).

I'll be honest my view on religion is less nuanced that perhaps I'd like it to be. I've been identifying as an atheist since I was 11 because that's the first time I learned there was a word for not believing in any ideas of God or higher power. I don't think there's ever been a time in my life when I've believed in God in any way, shape or form or even been tempted by the idea of it. I don't have it in me to have faith in something of that nature. I don't believe in God, or fate, or karma, or even the idea of a soul being an actual thing.

I do still maintain that what religion you subscribe to is still, however, a matter of choice. Maybe not an easy one or one that a lot of people even consider but nonetheless the mere fact that people losing their faith, or converting from one religion to another, are things that can and do happen proves that it is a personal choice in some way.

Circumstances obviously varying from person to person but the alternative is that a religion is an immutable inherent facet of someone's very being which is not a conclusion borne out by evidence, such as the aforementioned idea of religious conversion. I don't deny that a lot of religious followers might view their particular denominational faith as something inherent to their very existence, but that doesn't make it true. It makes it a matter of faith, like the existence of God him/her/itself.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 13:43
by Magic J
Severelius wrote:I'll be honest my view on religion is less nuanced that perhaps I'd like it to be. I've been identifying as an atheist since I was 11 because that's the first time I learned there was a word for not believing in any ideas of God or higher power. I don't think there's ever been a time in my life when I've believed in God in any way, shape or form or even been tempted by the idea of it. I don't have it in me to have faith in something of that nature. I don't believe in God, or fate, or karma, or even the idea of a soul being an actual thing.

Yes, I'm basically similar. I've never been religious, and never had any sort of religious upbringing or schooling, so it's all quite an abstract matter to me. For all intents and purposes, I'm atheist. I suppose my interest in religious works (usually of the quite abstract and mystical sort) stems from a longing for some fixity in a topsy-turvy reality. For my part, that impulse can be fed without overly restrictive orthodox systems, though.

Severelius wrote:I do still maintain that what religion you subscribe to is still, however, a matter of choice. Maybe not an easy one or one that a lot of people even consider but nonetheless the mere fact that people losing their faith, or converting from one religion to another, are things that can and do happen proves that it is a personal choice in some way.

I'd think that believers in whatever religion have more in common with other believers than they do with atheists or agnostics. I'd still want to emphasise the community element as something which might make it particularly difficult to challenge religious beliefs. I feel that it's probably the sense of community that holds much of the value for believers, rather than the complexities of how many fingers are to be extended whilst making a blessing. :P It's an issue of identity as well as an issue of correctness.

Severelius wrote:Circumstances obviously varying from person to person but the alternative is that a religion is an immutable inherent facet of someone's very being which is not a conclusion borne out by evidence, such as the aforementioned idea of religious conversion. I don't deny that a lot of religious followers might view their particular denominational faith as something inherent to their very existence, but that doesn't make it true. It makes it a matter of faith, like the existence of God him/her/itself.

Yes, I'd basically agree. There's nothing in "human nature" that makes religious belief inherent. A need for community? Perhaps there is that need. Religion can provide that in a scary world. Obviously, that has its limits, as we see in the case of its generalised aversion to non-heterosexuality, and also all the other stuff like religious warfare and other general insanity. :P

EDIT: Went back and put scare quotes around "human nature". Coz I'm just that cool. :lol:

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 16:20
by poolerboy0077
azureflame wrote:I quit religion when I was a kid but this same question stayed with me for a long time. In the end, I just came to the realization that it doesn't matter even if it was a sin. Everyone has a sin that they won't ask forgiveness for. It can be something very big or very small but everyone lives in sin.

Exactly! What’s the point in having joined the Christian faith if you can’t even use the excuse that having had someone’s redemptive death forgiving all of humanity’s sins allows you to do whatever you want?

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 16:33
by Magic J
poolerboy0077 wrote:Exactly! What’s the point in having joined the Christian faith if you can’t even use the excuse that having had someone’s redemptive death forgiving all of humanity’s sins allows you to do whatever you want?

Jesus died for your right to party. Never forget that.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 28 April 2020, 16:39
by Jryski
Christianity is oppressive in general. I find it hilarious when people say they don’t follow the entirety of the bible because some of it is just insanity. “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” Your God comes first and the bible is your God. If your god is unstable, then pretty much anything goes. A sin is something that you commit. My condolences to anyone who believes that they are a sin deserving of eternal torture in hell fire because of how their brain is naturally wired to love and experience life. It’s silly to not care or to know about the religion you’re following and getting into.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 29 April 2020, 05:24
by Lil-Joe
mrmadness wrote:The word "gay Christian" doesn't hit the ears right to many people, because to most people it sounds like an oxymoron. But, for me I think the notion that one has to be an atheist if one is gay should be challenged. A person's religious beliefs should not be up for debate, because that can be a very discomforting experience for a person. Whether an individual wants to believe in heaven or hell, God, Jesus, and sin is totally up to them. I think labelling oneself as a Christian shouldn't invite judgement if that person happens to be gay. But, I want to ask people on this forum a few questions: can one be gay and Christian? Should these notions of excluding gay people from religion be challenged? And, how do people on this forum feel about religiosity in a gay person's life?


How can we know what God thinks about gays, did he came on tv or something? Oow btw if God dont like gays, why has he made me this way?

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 29 April 2020, 08:42
by PopTart
Most branches of Christianity don't mesh well with homosexuality if you seek to abide by doctrine and approved dogma. As such, I often find that those that try to make it fit for them, are perhaps, misguided. No offense.

Faith, in it's purest form, should not be about your relationship with an institution that represents that faith, but with the object of that faith.

If you believe in a christian style God, it should be your relationship with God that should matter. Do you need a book, written by men two thousand years dead, or men, no different from you now, to tell you what your chosen deity wants of you? How to divine right from wrong?

Abide by your conscience, lead your life as best you can and make right your mistakes when it is possible to do so and hopefully, if there is a God, he will judge your intent, if judgement is in your beliefs.

I guess I'm saying that, gay people, who want to be christian and want to be acknowledged and accepted by mainstream christianity, are perhaps, setting themselves up for a fall.

Re: Christianity and being gay

Unread postPosted: 29 April 2020, 09:59
by poolerboy0077
PopTart wrote:If you believe in a christian style God, it should be your relationship with God that should matter. Do you need a book, written by men two thousand years dead, or men, no different from you now, to tell you what your chosen deity wants of you? How to divine right from wrong?

Christians wouldn’t know what the faith even is if it weren’t for Bible. It seems selective to retain certain vague elements from it, like who Jesus is or what he did for humanity but discard the parts where it tells you how to live. At that point, just discard the entire thing and go with your gut on matters of ethics, epistemology and ontology.