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What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 30 September 2021, 18:03
by o.o.pickme
Years ago I took part in a study which dealt with gay men and narcissism. What do you think? Are gay men narcissistic?

When I was younger i would have said "yes" to a extent, but now that I'm getting older (61 in Nov.) not so much. I mean I still try to look nice before I go out, but I'm not primping as much or at not all.

So, are we or no?

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 30 September 2021, 22:42
by Eryx
Not more than straight people

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 15:06
by Marmaduke
I think the data set as collated would seem to suggest a correlation between age and narcissism, rather than sexuality and narcissism.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 16:51
by Peter123777
I think gay people tend to be more perfectionist in their attitudes and behaviors.
That's express itself in working out more than the hetero population, investing more money, time and effort in dressing and looking well in general. That could be misinterpreted as narcissism, when the actual motivation is less self-confident and a need to prove as being worthy and through that, being valued and loved.
When a person doesn’t value himself much, they need outside approval to feel good about themselves. Looking good and dressing well is the easiest and fastest way to get “social approval” and (at least temporally) raise your self-value.

What’s your thought about that? Do you agree/disagree?
Maybe there’s another reason for gay people being thought of as narcissists?

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 17:23
by Eryx
I agree, Peter!

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 19:54
by pozzie
I've easily known just as many gay slobs as smart gays, so I'm not really sure.

Maybe this sort of navel gazing is the result of being too concerned about what others think in the first place.

Could other things be a factor? Like how parents dressed, why kind of occupations people have, or what social class one most associates with. On a different note, Wordnik's defition

narcissistic
adjective
Having an excessive love of oneself; egocentric; egoistic.
Having an inflated idea of one's own importance.
Obsessed with one's own self image and ego.


Do gay men really have "an excessive love of oneself" or "an inflated idea of one's own importance" especially when compared with John Q Public (edit: or maybe Donald Trump)? I think not. So far it seems discussion has centered on one's self image, no?

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 22:05
by PopTart
I mean, isn't this just people, to some lesser or greater extent? Why be more granular than that.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 22:08
by McTaggartfan
I mean, if you're going off of me as the basis for the generalization, I'd say no. I hardly notice my body or my appearance most of the time. But I also don't know many gay men, so it's hard for me to tell.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 1 October 2021, 22:23
by PopTart
McTaggartfan wrote:I mean, if you're going off of me as the basis for the generalization, I'd say no. I hardly notice my body or my appearance most of the time. But I also don't know many gay men, so it's hard for me to tell.
But does your self image, define your identity, be it positively or negatively? Are you not introspective? Could it not be argued, that introspection is a laser focused fixation upon the self?

Neither of which is to suggest that your are a narcissist. But that people are by our nature self interested, the degree to which, varies across our lives and can be influenced by a multitude of circumstances, external and internal factors. I don't see how our sexuality, would really play much of a role, beyond the superficial.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 2 October 2021, 10:10
by Peter123777
pozboro wrote:I've easily known just as many gay slobs as smart gays, so I'm not really sure.

Maybe this sort of navel gazing is the result of being too concerned about what others think in the first place.

Could other things be a factor? Like how parents dressed, why kind of occupations people have, or what social class one most associates with. On a different note, Wordnik's defition

narcissistic
adjective
Having an excessive love of oneself; egocentric; egoistic.
Having an inflated idea of one's own importance.
Obsessed with one's own self image and ego.


Do gay men really have "an excessive love of oneself" or "an inflated idea of one's own importance" especially when compared with John Q Public (edit: or maybe Donald Trump)? I think not. So far it seems discussion has centered on one's self image, no?


But, generally speaking, did you’ve known as much sloppy straights as much as smart straights?
Again, I think gay people tend to overemphasize external appearance importance, for reasons that are mostly related to low self-esteem and self-confidence. That, as a way to increase their self-value in others' opinion and through that, their own self-value (at least temporarily). What do you think?

It might be that gay people are usually more extravagant and extrovert in their behaviors, drawing more attention for themselves than straight people do, again to try to increase their self-value throughout the attention of others. What do you think about that?

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 2 October 2021, 10:33
by PopTart
Peter123777 wrote:But, generally speaking, did you’ve known as much sloppy straights as much as smart straights?
Again, I think gay people tend to overemphasize external appearance importance, for reasons that are mostly related to low self-esteem and self-confidence. That, as a way to increase their self-value in others' opinion and through that, their own self-value (at least temporarily). What do you think?
You really want to imply, in many of your posts, that homosexuality, is caused by low self esteem :gayblahblah: :lol:

I honestly have no idea why you seem to labour under this misapprehension.

Many gay people are really quite confident. Not all overt confidence is over-compensation for insecurity or low self esteem. Sometimes self assurance is the result of, being self assured. Which isn't unexpected in someone who has had to contend with the emotional, mental and social challenges that arise in being outside the norm and overcoming personal, familial and wider social stigmas and flourish regardless while learning to accept ones self.

Peter123777 wrote:It might be that gay people are usually more extravagant and extrovert in their behaviors, drawing more attention for themselves than straight people do, again to try to increase their self-value throughout the attention of others. What do you think about that?
No Pete, you liking boys is not indicative of something being wrong with you, I'm sorry to break this to you.

Have you considered that at one time, not long ago, gay people had to learn to "hide in plain sight" many of the excessive behaviours that people consider stereotypically gay, allowed men to signal their sexuality in a manner that, while being somewhat obvious to many, was NOT outright spoken or acknowledged and thus allowed men to identify one another, without incurring legal repurcussions. (In liberal western soceities ofcourse. No such security in places where law and order weren't important or codified.)

That is just one alternative reading, with as much, if not more likelihood of being accurate than, all gay men are inherently flamboyant (which they aren't) and "extra" (which they aren't) because they secretly lack self confidence (which most don't, any more than any of their contemporaries, anyway) and need the approval of other people, usually "real" men who are self assured because they put their penises in the right kind of orificies.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 2 October 2021, 21:32
by pozzie
Peter123777 wrote:But, generally speaking, did you’ve known as much sloppy straights as much as smart straights?


Absolutely! I really think this is more a function of age and general place in society.

Peter123777 wrote:Again, I think gay people tend to overemphasize external appearance importance, for reasons that are mostly related to low self-esteem and self-confidence. That, as a way to increase their self-value in others' opinion and through that, their own self-value (at least temporarily). What do you think?

It might be that gay people are usually more extravagant and extrovert in their behaviors, drawing more attention for themselves than straight people do, again to try to increase their self-value throughout the attention of others. What do you think about that?


I think you're focusing on the people who get lots of attention while forgetting about all the invisible gay people who largely just blend in. They're still gay.

I get were you might be coming from in terms of "overemphasize external appearance importance" though I'd argue that might be 1) because gay culture is all about youth and 2) young people (regardless of orientation) are generally looking for potential 'mates' (ie: sexual partners)

My experience with people who have esteem issues is they tend to want to disappear, not go on Rupaul's Drag Race.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 3 October 2021, 16:43
by PopTart
pozboro wrote:I think you're focusing on the people who get lots of attention while forgetting about all the invisible gay people who largely just blend in. They're still gay.
Yeah, if there is one stereotype I find myself resenting, it's the one that suggest we are all meant to be special little unicorns, with lustrous hair, glittering halo's of exceptional beauty and sun shining out of our asses. We are normal people. That fat guy on the bus? With mismatching shirt and trousers, and a bald patch barely hidden under a comb over? He is just as likely to be gay as anyone else.

pozboro wrote:I get were you might be coming from in terms of "overemphasize external appearance importance" though I'd argue that might be 1) because gay culture is all about youth and 2) young people (regardless of orientation) are generally looking for potential 'mates' (ie: sexual partners)
I'd go further and suggest that, men find youth desireable. This is true of heterosexual men, as much as it is true of homosexual men. Men are also alot more concerned with superficial appearances, compared to women and as such, it's not surprising that in Male/Male relationships (sexual or more emotionally involved) men prioritise different things and in different orders of importance. (broadly speaking)

pozboro wrote:My experience with people who have esteem issues is they tend to want to disappear, not go on Rupaul's Drag Race.
My experience too. Some people can and do overcompensate, but those that do, usually experience greater success than those that hide in the background and they usually overcome insecurities more quickly through affirmitive experiences.

Re: What do you think?

Unread postPosted: 3 October 2021, 22:52
by pozzie
PopTart wrote:
pozboro wrote:I get were you might be coming from in terms of "overemphasize external appearance importance" though I'd argue that might be 1) because gay culture is all about youth and 2) young people (regardless of orientation) are generally looking for potential 'mates' (ie: sexual partners)
I'd go further and suggest that, men find youth desireable. This is true of heterosexual men, as much as it is true of homosexual men. Men are also alot more concerned with superficial appearances, compared to women and as such, it's not surprising that in Male/Male relationships (sexual or more emotionally involved) men prioritise different things and in different orders of importance. (broadly speaking)


yeah, I was thinking along the lines of those seeking men for mates (straight women, gay men) learn that they have to compete for the attention so to speak - and like most animals competing for mates, they primp, fluff, decorate, etc as is expected for their species - ours looks at grooming, fashion, cleanliness, etc