Page 1 of 1

Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:06
by Hunter
Perhaps this might get moved to ID depending upon how this goes, but I found this interesting little article (that at least personally makes me want to vomit in my mouth)

http://time.com/2969951/dear-white-gays ... e-culture/

You can read it for yourself. It's basically the ramblings of a deluded black woman who more or less seems to be insinuating that because sexuality is hidden we are far more privileged and don't have it nearly as bad as black women. EDIT: She ignores the fact that, in many ways, being a "hidden" minority is far harder; black people don't exactly have to come out of the closet. Being secretly gay is not a benefit. It not only augments the stigmatization of being gay but leads to horrible self-shame.

She also erroneously seems to think that only gay men are guilty of appropriating black female culture, and that black women somehow abstractly "own" Madea.

Plus, it's not like gay white women, straight white women, straight white men, straight Asian women, etc, etc, don't "appropriate" black culture.

I probably find this little tidbit the most ridiculous and aggravating, if not downright offensive:

Black people can’t have anything. Any of these things include, but aren’t limited to: a general sense of physical safety, comfort with law enforcement, adequate funding and appreciation for black spaces like schools and neighborhoods, appropriate venues for our voices to be heard about criticism of issues without our race going on trial because of it, and solid voting rights (cc: Chris McDaniel).


Again, she seems to be operating under the assumption that gay men (and women) also don't have issues with these things (and then a plethora of other problems that black people don't have to deal with, but why bother comparing - 'tis the plight of being a minority).



A culture of racism is bad enough, but pairing it with patriarchal structures that intend to undermine women’s advancement is like double-fisting bleach and acid rain.


More bullshit. Patriarchy hurts men and women alike, and everybody else who doesn't subscribe to the gender binary. A heterosexual male dominant patriarchy especially hurts gay men.

I sympathize with her; calling yourself a ghetto hoodrat bitch can certainly be offensive in some contexts, but I see no reason as to why her frustration is directed at the gay community.

Curious about what other people think!

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:26
by poolerboy0077
:rofl:

The title and first paragraph is hilarious if only because it's so true, especially when you go to the PMDT.

That being said, the lady is clearly a deluded imbecile. I've heard permutations of this argument before, like when black women argue that black men "belong" to them and not to white women whenever they see interracial couples mostly form as black men with white women but not the other way around. The part about privilege is the cringiest part if only because I first confused it for a Tumblr-styled parody before realizing this bitch was being serious. It's a complete non sequitur too. That's like saying I can't like Matzah ball soup because I've never endured their peoples' struggles. The fuck? People just like to complain about something and revel in their own perceived sense of persecution, don't they. Sheesh.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:32
by Mod

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:33
by Derek
I agree with the author, although for different reasons. Her argument is full of old fashioned tumblr-style inconsistencies and whiny hysteria. The best reason for, uh, you people, to stop is because it makes you sound really, really stupid.

poolerboy0077 wrote:That being said, the lady is clearly a deluded imbecile. I've heard permutations of this argument before, like when black women argue that black men "belong" to them and not to white women whenever they see interracial couples mostly form as black men with white women but not the other way around. The part about privilege is the cringiest part if only because I first confused it for a Tumblr-styled parody before realizing this bitch was being serious. It's a complete non sequitur too. That's like saying I can't like Matzah ball soup because I've never endured their peoples' struggles. The fuck? People just like to complain about something and revel in their own perceived sense of persecution, don't they. Sheesh.

See, you can say this because you're a minority yourself. Man, I'd give anything for that kind of privilege.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:35
by Hunter
poolerboy0077 wrote::rofl:

The title and first paragraph is hilarious if only because it's so true, especially when you go to the PMDT.

That being said, the lady is clearly a deluded imbecile. I've heard permutations of this argument before, like when black women argue that black men "belong" to them and not to white women whenever they see interracial couples mostly form as black men with white women but not the other way around. The part about privilege is the cringiest part if only because I first confused it for a Tumblr-styled parody before realizing this bitch was being serious. It's a complete non sequitur too. That's like saying I can't like Matzah ball soup because I've never endured their peoples' struggles. The fuck? People just like to complain about something and revel in their own perceived sense of persecution, don't they. Sheesh.


It is true. Almost laughably so. Gay men certainly like twerking to Beyoncé, but I see no reason as to whysuch a thing is unethical or wrong at all.

The concept of owning a culture confuses me. Can gay men not "share" this "culture" with black women? Though the author denies it, I do see similarities in what black women and gay men go through, regardless of color.

Quite frankly, I think the reason gay men look up to so many female popstars (especially black ones such as Whitney, Bey, etc) is because there's a sense of mutual respect and appreciation. Though I'm speaking for a large group of people here, it seems to be out of admiration and nothing else. Gay men see themselves in incredibly strong, (and yes- I use this phrase literally) independent, fierce women.

Yes, however, cultural appropriation can sink into offensiveness quickly. Katy Perry pretending to be a geisha for seemingly no reason is offensive for obvious reasons. Talking about true tea and whatever else? Harmless.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:36
by Descuff
I felt like I just read a mess of an article that went from a random quip about beyonce and weave to gay vs black women in america.

Personally I haven't seen any white gays imitating black females culture- which is quite ranged within itself- at least not so seriously. GTF's PMDT is just a funny footnote.
But I have seen a more general women focus within the gay community but that really shouldn't be an issue. People should be free to expressed themselves. None of this "Don't be a black woman" which imo consist of being strong-willed and faithful which I haven't seen too much of any community to be honest.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 01:40
by Hunter
Descuff wrote:I felt like I just read a mess of an article that went from a random quip about beyonce and weave to gay vs black women in america.

Personally I haven't seen any white gays imitating black females culture- which is quite ranged within itself- at least not so seriously. GTF's PMDT is just a funny footnote.
But I have seen a more general women focus within the gay community but that really shouldn't be an issue. People should be free to expressed themselves. None of this "Don't be a black woman" which imo consist of being strong-willed and faithful which I haven't seen too much of any community to be honest.


In truth, white gay men take from the "black female culture" more than you'd think, at least on social media and internet forums. PMDT exists on a much larger scale on websites such as ATRL and even on Twitter.

I think the root of it just comes from an appreciation of women. Gay men love independent and strong women like Madonna and Gaga because they go through similar things. Being black more or less just tops it all off; there's just more of a struggle to relate to. Again, I think it's out of admiration and respect.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 02:00
by Descuff
hunterplusmariska wrote:
Descuff wrote:I felt like I just read a mess of an article that went from a random quip about beyonce and weave to gay vs black women in america.

Personally I haven't seen any white gays imitating black females culture- which is quite ranged within itself- at least not so seriously. GTF's PMDT is just a funny footnote.
But I have seen a more general women focus within the gay community but that really shouldn't be an issue. People should be free to expressed themselves. None of this "Don't be a black woman" which imo consist of being strong-willed and faithful which I haven't seen too much of any community to be honest.


In truth, white gay men take from the "black female culture" more than you'd think, at least on social media and internet forums. PMDT exists on a much larger scale on websites such as ATRL and even on Twitter.

I think the root of it just comes from an appreciation of women. Gay men love independent and strong women like Madonna and Gaga because they go through similar things. Being black more or less just tops it all off; there's just more of a struggle to relate to. Again, I think it's out of admiration and respect.


I can definitely get on board with that as it's somewhat true for me.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 02:30
by poolerboy0077
hunterplusmariska wrote:I think the root of it just comes from an appreciation of women. Gay men love independent and strong women like Madonna and Gaga because they go through similar things. Being black more or less just tops it all off; there's just more of a struggle to relate to. Again, I think it's out of admiration and respect.

What perplexes me, though, is the lack of admiration (at least by comparison) that successful gay men get.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 03:29
by Hunter
poolerboy0077 wrote:
hunterplusmariska wrote:I think the root of it just comes from an appreciation of women. Gay men love independent and strong women like Madonna and Gaga because they go through similar things. Being black more or less just tops it all off; there's just more of a struggle to relate to. Again, I think it's out of admiration and respect.

What perplexes me, though, is the lack of admiration (at least by comparison) that successful gay men get.

Jealousy..

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 03:32
by poolerboy0077
hunterplusmariska wrote:
poolerboy0077 wrote:
hunterplusmariska wrote:I think the root of it just comes from an appreciation of women. Gay men love independent and strong women like Madonna and Gaga because they go through similar things. Being black more or less just tops it all off; there's just more of a struggle to relate to. Again, I think it's out of admiration and respect.

What perplexes me, though, is the lack of admiration (at least by comparison) that successful gay men get.

Jealousy..

:lol:

Oh gays :gay:

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 04:18
by Paragon
I think the transfer begins with the drag community, who emulate the diva persona as part of the performance. It's assumed empowerment. And then the language just flowed to the flamers and throughout the rest of homotopia.

Meanwhile, I've always been weary of the idea of "cultural appropriation". It's one thing for a person of one culture to misconstrue the meaning of an aspect of another's culture and making a mockery of it for their own amusement. Take for example when white college girls get into Cinco De Mayo and unwittingly insult Erick's tribe. You know. That's appropriation.
But when the borrower actually takes the time to figure out and appreciate a thing, even if it's not perfect, then who cares? Making that argument of like, "Can't we have a thing that's just for us?" is short-sighted and blatantly isolates people into Us VS Them rhetoric that ultimately impedes mutual understanding.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 06:12
by xyz72
Cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation are easily mixed up and lately, maybe due to the whole Tumblr activist situation, a rather black and white view has arisen. I do think it can be quite offensive when the person appropriating a culture clearly has no idea about it(to give a Pop culture example: Katy Perry's performance of Unconditionally at some award show where she mixed up multiple Asian cultures into one big mess and ended up implying they're all the same), but when you simply like an aspect of a culture or cultural tradition why shouldn't you be allowed to enjoy it? I think somebody showing off their own cultural history without knowing shit about it isn't any less ignorant, if not more offensive even as they should know about their history - and let's face it, that happens every day - so why are people from other cultures singled out? Why would somebody have a privilege to culture because of their skin colour, gender, sexuality, the country their parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents came from?

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 07:26
by Welp
Black women are silly people. I can kind of get what she's saying but not really. I thought about writing a longer response but I figured it would be racist in some way so I'm going to stop here.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 10:39
by Nicholas
So, you aren't a strong black woman, or a ghetto girl

Image

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 10 July 2014, 18:34
by Descuff
Nicholas wrote:
So, you aren't a strong black woman, or a ghetto girl

Image


Image

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 11 July 2014, 19:23
by acpro
The author of the story is on CNN right now and sounds really nervous--apparently she doesn't write for Time. She's speaking from Oxford, Mississippi. She said that she's had so many experiences of meeting white gay men where they talk like a black woman. Her example is, "Hey, girl". I have to wonder how many out gay white men she has met in Oxford, Mississippi.

Re: Time: Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

Unread postPosted: 18 July 2014, 07:03
by poolerboy0077
Since this thread tends to affect femmy gays I thought I'd post this here.

I feel you PMDT types should take up color guard if you haven't already. It has all the flair and performance art your ilk crave. Plus it gives me an excuse to see guys like Liam and Hunter in tight spandex. :awesome:



You may now return to your regularly scheduled rants.