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Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 16:50
by Rym2018
Shouldn’t the small government “stay out of my business” ideology of the republican party be more appealing for gays?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 17:18
by Marmaduke
Why should it?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:05
by Rym2018
Marmaduke wrote:Why should it?


Because presumably we shouldn’t want a government regulating what consenting adults can and cannot do in their private life/business.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:06
by Marmaduke
Doesn't the republican party actively legislate against the homosexual community and their freedom to do what they'd like in their private time? Gay marriage for instance?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:08
by Marmaduke
Moreover, which freedoms of choice are the Democrats removing from the homosexual community?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:18
by rogonandi
The republicans frequently have associated themselves with evangelical Christian groups who at best grudgingly tolerate us, try to use law to oppress us, and at worst have their followers string us up and kill us.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:22
by Marmaduke
rogonandi wrote:The republicans frequently have associated themselves with evangelical Christian groups who at best grudgingly tolerate us, try to use law to oppress us, and at worst have their followers string us up and kill us.

Whoa Andy, you know me, I'm all for a punchy retort. But lets not start making unsourced claims that Republican politicians have undertaken to have members of the LGBT community lynched. I'm all for a discussion about one partys' percieved failings and differences of opinion, but lets not just start shovelling outright hyperbole. :lol:

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:32
by Derek
Rym2018 wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:Why should it?


Because presumably we shouldn’t want a government regulating what consenting adults can and cannot do in their private life/business.

So you're saying gays should pick the party that has demonstrated more tolerance for what consenting adults can and cannot do in their private life?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:39
by rogonandi
Marmaduke wrote:
rogonandi wrote:The republicans frequently have associated themselves with evangelical Christian groups who at best grudgingly tolerate us, try to use law to oppress us, and at worst have their followers string us up and kill us.

Whoa Andy, you know me, I'm all for a punchy retort. But lets not start making unsourced claims that Republican politicians have undertaken to have members of the LGBT community lynched. I'm all for a discussion about one partys' percieved failings and differences of opinion, but lets not just start shovelling outright hyperbole. :lol:


They wouldn’t publicly admit this, no but...

I’m more talking about association. Birds of a feather flock together and such. ;)

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:40
by Magic J
As above. Not an American, but I'm vaguely aware that mainstream US Republicanism made some kind of devil's bargain with evangelical Christians, who are very interested in regulating individual's private lives indeed.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 18:42
by rogonandi
Rym2018 wrote:Shouldn’t the small government “stay out of my business” ideology of the republican party be more appealing for gays?

I think the only reason why they typically follow the “stay out of my business” mantra is because they themselves would like to do things that they’d prefer others to keep out of.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:23
by Rym2018
The question is about embracing the ideology of “small government” which I think should be appealing, not just to gays, but to all. Democrats advocate passing laws forcing others, religious or not, to do business with us, to bake our wedding cakes, to teach their own children lgbt ideology, etc. The view of those who subscribe to the “small government” ideology is that the government shouldn’t even have the power to regulate people’s private life/business to begin with. Because once assume those in government will have the power to regulate our private life, then the question is who gets to regulate; the religious lobby telling us what we can and cannot do, or the lgbt lobby telling others what they can and cannot do.

I believe we ought to live in a country where no matter who’s in government, we should be free do live our life as we see fit, as long as we don’t damage other people and other people’s property.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:27
by Marmaduke
You can't frame a question around the LGBT community and then, when they answer, just broaden your argument out to refer to the population at large and disregard their feedback entirely. The question you're now asking is "I'm surprised democratic voters don't vote republican". That's a really stupid question.

Ironically, you're asking a stupid question from a stupid perspective too. Because it's the republican party that legislates restrictively around people's personal and private lives.

I would like you to answer the question I asked above; what personal freedoms are the democrats seeking to legislate against that you feel the republican party is defending?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:28
by Marmaduke
Also, what are the LGBT lobby telling people they cannot do?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:40
by Rym2018
Marmaduke wrote:You can't frame a question around the LGBT community and then, when they answer, just broaden your argument out to refer to the population at large and disregard their feedback entirely. The question you're now asking is "I'm surprised democratic voters don't vote republican". That's a really stupid question.

Ironically, you're asking a stupid question from a stupid perspective too. Because it's the republican party that legislates restrictively around people's personal and private lives.

I would like you to answer the question I asked above; what personal freedoms are the democrats seeking to legislate against that you feel the republican party is defending?


The question remains the same, it’s right there, you can go back and read it; shouldn’t the ideology of “small government, stay out of my business, mind your own business, etc” be appealing for gays. You asked why should it and my response was because we should be free to live our lives as we see fit. You also asked what freedoms are democrats legislating against, and I responded by saying they’re legislating “in favor” of gays, forcing others to bake our cakes, etc, but my contention is that government shouldn’t have to legislate neither in favor nor against anyone. If we don’t want a government telling us what we can and cannot do in our private life we shouldn’t want a government telling others what they can and cannot do either.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:40
by poolerboy0077
Republicans: The government that governs best, governs least.

Also Republicans: We have to issue shelter at home and quarantine orders amid this pandemic.


Reality seems to show time and again how meaningless that argument is.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:45
by Marmaduke
Rym2018 wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:You can't frame a question around the LGBT community and then, when they answer, just broaden your argument out to refer to the population at large and disregard their feedback entirely. The question you're now asking is "I'm surprised democratic voters don't vote republican". That's a really stupid question.

Ironically, you're asking a stupid question from a stupid perspective too. Because it's the republican party that legislates restrictively around people's personal and private lives.

I would like you to answer the question I asked above; what personal freedoms are the democrats seeking to legislate against that you feel the republican party is defending?


The question remains the same, it’s right there, you can go back and read it; shouldn’t the ideology of “small government, stay out of my business, mind your own business, etc” be appealing for gays. You asked why should it and my response was because we should be free to live our lives as we see fit. You also asked what freedoms are democrats legislating against, and I responded by saying they’re legislating “in favor” of gays, forcing others to bake our cakes, etc, but my contention is that government shouldn’t have to legislate neither in favor nor against anyone. If we don’t want a government telling us what we can and cannot do in our private life we shouldn’t want a government telling others what they can and cannot either.

Can I asked who it is that has forced you to bake a cake?

Because legislating against a person's freedom to discriminate is no different in principle to legislating against their freedom to assault, isn't it? We can surely agree that discrimination and assault are both negative social constants, is it not the duty of a government to legislate against the minority who would act against others within the population? If it isn't, what is it you feel is the duty of a government if it isn't laying out the framework of how that nation is percieved both internally and externally? (that framework being the legal structure and constitution)

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:46
by Rym2018
poolerboy0077 wrote:Republicans: The government that governs best, governs least.

Also Republicans: We have to issue shelter at home and quarantine orders amid this pandemic.


Reality seems to show time and again how meaningless that argument is.


Yes because it’s a pandemic. Both democrats and republicans seem to agree on this during a pandemic. California and New York are currently governed by democrats and they also issued shelter at home and quarantine orders. Don’t you agree with this?

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 19:55
by Rym2018
Marmaduke wrote:
Rym2018 wrote:
Marmaduke wrote:You can't frame a question around the LGBT community and then, when they answer, just broaden your argument out to refer to the population at large and disregard their feedback entirely. The question you're now asking is "I'm surprised democratic voters don't vote republican". That's a really stupid question.

Ironically, you're asking a stupid question from a stupid perspective too. Because it's the republican party that legislates restrictively around people's personal and private lives.

I would like you to answer the question I asked above; what personal freedoms are the democrats seeking to legislate against that you feel the republican party is defending?


The question remains the same, it’s right there, you can go back and read it; shouldn’t the ideology of “small government, stay out of my business, mind your own business, etc” be appealing for gays. You asked why should it and my response was because we should be free to live our lives as we see fit. You also asked what freedoms are democrats legislating against, and I responded by saying they’re legislating “in favor” of gays, forcing others to bake our cakes, etc, but my contention is that government shouldn’t have to legislate neither in favor nor against anyone. If we don’t want a government telling us what we can and cannot do in our private life we shouldn’t want a government telling others what they can and cannot either.

Can I asked who it is that has forced you to bake a cake?

Because legislating against a person's freedom to discriminate is no different in principle to legislating against their freedom to assault, isn't it? We can surely agree that discrimination and assault are both negative social constants, is it not the duty of a government to legislate against the minority who would act against others within the population? If it isn't, what is it you feel is the duty of a government if it isn't laying out the framework of how that nation is percieved both internally and externally? (that framework being the legal structure and constitution)


No one has forced me to bake a cake, but surely you’ve heard about others being fined thousands of dollars for not baking cakes, right?

And I disagree with your notion that discrimination is equal to assault. Assault is a physical attack, and the government has the duty to protect our life, freedom and property. Not wanting to bake a cake might be discrimination, but it is not physically attacking a person; it does not threaten the life nor the property of the person being discriminated, and the person asking for the cake does not have the right to demand services from another free person.

Re: Why do most gays vote democrat?

Unread postPosted: 22 March 2020, 20:00
by Marmaduke
I've certainly heard about businesses being fined for refusing service on grounds of LGBT discrimination, yes. But we're not talking about people's business lives, are we? You've been quite explicit. We're talking about people's private and personal lives. I would be interested for you to show an example of someone finishing work for the day, getting home and being shocked to find a representative of the US Government insisting that they must bake a rainbow unicorn gateaux?

Are we now only talking about whether bakers should be obliged to bake cakes of many colours? Or are you asserting that the government has a duty to protect freedom, apart from in cases of discrimination? How do you define freedom within the context of the responsibility a state holds to it citizens?