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Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 00:17
by Brenden
upthebracket. wrote:What I hate about the UK (and the US, I guess), is the 2 party system. I wish we could have proportional representation and get rid of stupid tactical voting and make politics a lot more competitive. There's a real lack of incentive for politicians to do a good job when they know their party is pretty much guaranteed to be in power again within the next 15 years. It's essentially a Duopoly.

Amen.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 02:21
by Wallace
Brenden wrote:
upthebracket. wrote:What I hate about the UK (and the US, I guess), is the 2 party system. I wish we could have proportional representation and get rid of stupid tactical voting and make politics a lot more competitive. There's a real lack of incentive for politicians to do a good job when they know their party is pretty much guaranteed to be in power again within the next 15 years. It's essentially a Duopoly.

Amen.

I agree. Though those with more than 2 party system, are they any better? Like France for example.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 02:24
by TheXO
I'm a conservative Republican, and I could not possibly care any less about gay issues.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 03:00
by Brenden
Wallace_Wells wrote:
Brenden wrote:
upthebracket. wrote:What I hate about the UK (and the US, I guess), is the 2 party system. I wish we could have proportional representation and get rid of stupid tactical voting and make politics a lot more competitive. There's a real lack of incentive for politicians to do a good job when they know their party is pretty much guaranteed to be in power again within the next 15 years. It's essentially a Duopoly.

Amen.

I agree. Though those with more than 2 party system, are they any better? Like France for example.

The problem isn't so much how many parties exist, but rather how politicians are elected.

France does indeed have more than two parties, but it still elects its legislators from single-member geographical districts in a two-round system not much better than FPTP, plus as of the Fifth Republic the President and his administration have much more power than than the legislature. As such, there are usually only two major parties each election with a few smaller ones nipping at their heels.

What upthebracket. mentioned in his post — proportional representation — is more like the Dutch system, in which each party gets a number of seats in parliament directly proportional to how much of the national popular vote their politicians received. In that system, there are many more political parties and none of them ever get anywhere near a majority, which leads to a lot of compromise as several parties with differing opinions have to join together to form a government (cabinet). Thanks to this necessity for compromise, centrist policies and laws are written.

To highlight the difference, here is the makeup of the current National Assembly of the French Republic (directly-elected lower house of parliament):

Image


And here in the makeup of the current House of Representatives of the Netherlands (''):

Image

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 10:56
by Edward
Exactly. There are other parties in the UK, but the nature of FPTP means that you still end up with two parties consistently dominating elections. The video below explains it quite well (it's from the UK, shortly before the referendum on FPTP to Alternative Vote, but the principle still stands on why FPTP is a terrible system). It's far superior to either side's official campaign videos, which were hideously misinformed and resorted to cheap and incorrect scare mongering.


Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 12:13
by Ericb91
upthebracket. wrote:
Ericb91 wrote:Liberal Democrat.

They still have supporters? :lol:

Some.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 17:31
by baileyscheesecake
I used to support Labour until they completely sold out all of their principles in their coalition with Fine Gael. See, proportional representation is no better than a two-party system, because the majority party still calls all the shots. I just wish Ireland had a strong left. :( Could be voting Sinn Fein next election, lads... and I'm English, like. I've decided I no longer care about their IRA affiliations, SF have the best policies in the country.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 17:47
by Alex Malfoy
I am a centrist. This means that I do not support either the extreme left or the extreme right. Personally I believe that social issues are very important, because they are part of the human rights - the right to abortion, the gay rights - I think that they are even more important than the money problems. I would also like to add that socially progressive countries tend to be better developed that socially conservative ones, which I think shows that to live well, you have to be civilized. About parties, things are different. I am from a small Eastern European country and all parties here are bad. They are heir of the big old Communist Party and have no real ideology. They only want to steal and in a very rude way. From what I see in the USA, you have to be sensible and vote Democrat, because the GOP is very intolerant party of hate and the rest don't really matter. In the UK I think that the major parties except the UKIP and the BNP are nice. In Germany, it is even better - they have very good politicians from the right and the left. France, however, is a disappointment. Sarkozy courted the vote of the far right supporters and that's why I was happy when Hollande won, I was excited about his positions about the gay rights. But now I see that he is a crazy communist, who will ruin his country. So I think that all parties in France are now lacking. I don't have enough data for politics in other countries. My conclusion is that a politician has to be a moderate and ready for compromise. Extreme positions like the ones, demonstrated from the GOP in the USA or the French Socialists are in my opinion not acceptable. Left or right, you have to be sensible.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 19:34
by ShutUpAndBeHappy
I am a leftest on social issues, and a tad on the libertarian side when it comes to economic issues. I'm a registered member of the Democratic Party (USA,) though that doesn't define how I vote.

My sexual orientation has nothing to do with my party affiliation or my voting habits.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 20:23
by baileyscheesecake
Alex Malfoy wrote:I am a centrist. This means that I do not support either the extreme left or the extreme right. Personally I believe that social issues are very important, because they are part of the human rights - the right to abortion, the gay rights - I think that they are even more important than the money problems. I would also like to add that socially progressive countries tend to be better developed that socially conservative ones, which I think shows that to live well, you have to be civilized. About parties, things are different. I am from a small Eastern European country and all parties here are bad. They are heir of the big old Communist Party and have no real ideology. They only want to steal and in a very rude way. From what I see in the USA, you have to be sensible and vote Democrat, because the GOP is very intolerant party of hate and the rest don't really matter. In the UK I think that the major parties except the UKIP and the BNP are nice. In Germany, it is even better - they have very good politicians from the right and the left. France, however, is a disappointment. Sarkozy courted the vote of the far right supporters and that's why I was happy when Hollande won, I was excited about his positions about the gay rights. But now I see that he is a crazy communist, who will ruin his country. So I think that all parties in France are now lacking. I don't have enough data for politics in other countries. My conclusion is that a politician has to be a moderate and ready for compromise. Extreme positions like the ones, demonstrated from the GOP in the USA or the French Socialists are in my opinion not acceptable. Left or right, you have to be sensible.

Too centred can be bad, too. Like, Ireland is pretty much entirely centre-wing, so parties just respond to what's happening without clear guidelines. During the Celtic Tiger years, it was so easy to just scrounge off dole, and job seeker's allowance was really high. No one really needed to prove they were looking for work, and some people just took the piss. Whereas now that we're in recession, and companies are re-locating and unemployment is up at 13%, the government is cutting social welfare. I think, yeah, no point being too extreme, but you can't just sit on the fence, either. If you think everyone in our society is deserving of a certain minimal standard of living, that shouldn't change when the country's in recession.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2013, 21:29
by quandmême
I'm liberal in the American sense of the word.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 05:16
by 1day
ShutUpAndBeHappy wrote:a tad on the libertarian side when it comes to economic issues.


Curious to ask, if you could please elaborate. What are you "libertarian" on when it comes to economic issues?

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 05:43
by Viro
Alex Malfoy wrote:I would also like to add that socially progressive countries tend to be better developed that socially conservative ones, which I think shows that to live well, you have to be civilized.

I think it shows that in order to be civilized, you have to have a reasonable standard of living first.

Maslow and all that.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 11:39
by Alex Malfoy
baileyscheesecake wrote:Too centred can be bad, too. Like, Ireland is pretty much entirely centre-wing, so parties just respond to what's happening without clear guidelines. During the Celtic Tiger years, it was so easy to just scrounge off dole, and job seeker's allowance was really high. No one really needed to prove they were looking for work, and some people just took the piss. Whereas now that we're in recession, and companies are re-locating and unemployment is up at 13%, the government is cutting social welfare. I think, yeah, no point being too extreme, but you can't just sit on the fence, either. If you think everyone in our society is deserving of a certain minimal standard of living, that shouldn't change when the country's in recession.


My personal opinion is that the economic development of a country is cyclical and sometimes you have to be centre-right and sometimes centre-left. That's why it is good to have different parties ruling in different times, thus sustaining a healthy democracy. But in order for this to work, the parties should not be extreme.

I think it shows that in order to be civilized, you have to have a reasonable standard of living first.
Maslow and all that.

There's that as well.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 12:43
by Wallace
Interesting views from all of you. I would love to hear how are the Scandinavian countries are doing politically from the members here? They seem to be better than the rest of the countries (assumption from my lack of knowledge though).

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 13:00
by 1day
baileyscheesecake wrote:Too centred can be bad, too. Like, Ireland is pretty much entirely centre-wing, so parties just respond to what's happening without clear guidelines. During the Celtic Tiger years, it was so easy to just scrounge off dole, and job seeker's allowance was really high. No one really needed to prove they were looking for work, and some people just took the piss. Whereas now that we're in recession, and companies are re-locating and unemployment is up at 13%, the government is cutting social welfare. I think, yeah, no point being too extreme, but you can't just sit on the fence, either. If you think everyone in our society is deserving of a certain minimal standard of living, that shouldn't change when the country's in recession.


Too centered cannot be a bad thing because it's not just "sitting on the fence". It's sharing views with the center-left and center-right without either completely defining your political beliefs. In the same day, you can be opposed to gay marriage but fighting for a women's right to an abortion. Your beliefs are what define you, not your party. As well, importantly, being in the center of the political spectrum allows for more compromise and bi-partisanship. Compromise is the art of politics. When you have two polarized ideologies butting heads with each other, as they are now in at least the US, it's not the politicians that suffer. It's the people, the economy, and the country overall. Congress right now is at an all time low for both blue dog democrats and the republican main street partnership, who represent the more moderate/center wing of their parties/coalition. Interestingly enough, the "republican main street partnership" has re-branded themselves as just the "main street partnership", hoping to attract a greater center coalition, including democrats, specifically blue dog democrats. It will be interesting to follow this and see where it may lead...

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 16:33
by Alex Malfoy
Wallace_Wells wrote:Interesting views from all of you. I would love to hear how are the Scandinavian countries are doing politically from the members here? They seem to be better than the rest of the countries (assumption from my lack of knowledge though).


They have a very high standard of living, but I am not very fond of their ultra left politics like taxes as high as 70% for rich people. For me the taxes shouldn't be higher than 40% and that for the really rich.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 17:20
by Denuto
I'm a Labor man (the Australian version of the American Democrats, I guess).

I'm pro gay rights, though I don't think it's the most pressing issue. I tend to get annoyed with my gay friends who vote purely on LGBT issues (which, IMO, are mostly boutique issues in most civilized countries) instead of looking at what candidates want to do about the economy, jobs, the environment and the myriad of other issues in society.

Still, if a candidate ticks all the other boxes politically and is pro gay rights all the better. They seem to be few and far between in Australian politics though. Most of our elected officials just chase the uninformed bogan vote "lol immigrants r taking ur jobs, lol the government r commies, gays are evil and offend jesus, etc."

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 14 January 2013, 20:06
by Alex Malfoy
You can't vote purely on LBGT issues, but they are pretty important. That's human rights issues, after all.

Re: Political Affiliations ?

Unread postPosted: 15 January 2013, 07:23
by MrTheEdge
Derek wrote:
FuturePoliceOfficer92 wrote:
1day wrote:
FuturePoliceOfficer92 wrote:Libertarian(Nut jobs :crazy: ….sorry haha)?


Don't trash something without justification. Libertarians, most notably on the political stage Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, are not nut jobs.


It’s what i believe and from experience with Libertarians what they have to say and believe is just crazy in todays modern world.

Crazy things like what?


Crazy things like the media told me to say that, duh.

I would say I'm Libertarian. Less of the Ron Paul type, more of the Gary Johnson/Jon Huntsman type. And I'd also say that naturally I'm sympathetic with Democrats.