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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 31 August 2019, 03:57
by poolerboy0077
Anyone else find it ironic that of all the places the El Paso shooter could have chosen he chose the one city that has for the past decade or more been consistently ranked among the top safest cities in the U.S. despite neighboring Juarez, one of the most dangerous cities in Mexico? Like, if that fact doesn’t inoculate you against the belief that there is a spillover of crime, I don’t think anything will—and clearly it didn’t for that deranged lunatic. Of course it was never about a fear of the border per se; the border is only a metaphor for the racial anxiety of being replaced by the mud people.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 13 January 2020, 23:42
by poolerboy0077
Trump’s killing of Soleimani has led to mass anti-government protests in Iran. I think you all owe the president an apology.

<said in nasally, smarmy Ben Shapiro voice>

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 31 January 2020, 07:55
by Brenden

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 1 February 2020, 01:54
by bluesunstorm
Well, it's the Sanders base that was always pushing the purity party garbage, but they don't like it when others point out the hypocrisy.

I hope Bernie isn't the nominee; he'd be a terrible general election candidate.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 1 February 2020, 02:04
by Derek
bluesunstorm wrote:Well, it's the Sanders base that was always pushing the purity party narrative, but they don't like it when others point out the hypocrisy.

How is it hypocritical?

he'd be a terrible general election candidate.

Why?

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 3 February 2020, 23:25
by Jacketh
bluesunstorm wrote:I hope Bernie isn't the nominee; he'd be a terrible general election candidate.


Biden would be damn awful too.

Even if I'm not a fan of his politics at all, at least get behind Buttigieg if you want a moderate or Bernie is too left-wing for you. At least he's young, has an interesting story, some ideas, and is a heck of a lot more interesting and motivating to listen to when he speaks. All that could inspire turnout and I'd be confident he could beat Trump.

I have no idea what people are doing sticking with Biden. It's truly baffling. I'm half convinced he's going senile. Comments like this:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbpx ... ss-likable

How is that going to inspire people to turnout for him?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/30/poli ... index.html

Yeah... wtf?

There is no way he doesn't depress the Dem turnout. Maybe it'll be motivated enough purely on getting Trump out of the WH, but it won't be any convincing victory if Biden did pull it off.

His behaviour has been completely odd too. He seems to just want to ride on his name recognition and pander to all moderates/Republican voters who might be a little uncomfortable with Trump.

https://youtu.be/VQhqLhbNo9M?t=59

Just WTF is that all about? So many cases of him just doing weird shit lol.

You can see his aide thinking 'fuck, he's talking!' in the background lol.

Image

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 02:29
by Brenden

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 03:26
by John27
Jacketh wrote:I have no idea what people are doing sticking with Biden. It's truly baffling. I'm half convinced he's going senile.


You aren't the only one to note Biden's decline. I've heard commentators who follow politics closely make comments like this. Particular when talking debate performance (2008 or 2012 vs today).

He probably has support due to name recognition and people remember the Obama years fondly. I've also heard arguments that he's "electable"--but I'm personally unconvinced. Hillary Clinton was "electable"--and yet she lost. I have a feeling the same thing would happen again.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 04:01
by Jacketh
John27 wrote:
Jacketh wrote:I have no idea what people are doing sticking with Biden. It's truly baffling. I'm half convinced he's going senile.


You aren't the only one to note Biden's decline. I've heard commentators who follow politics closely make comments like this. Particular when talking debate performance (2008 or 2012 vs today).

He probably has support due to name recognition and people remember the Obama years fondly. I've also heard arguments that he's "electable"--but I'm personally unconvinced. Hillary Clinton was "electable"--and yet she lost. I have a feeling the same thing would happen again.


Stuff like this as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHqcr43qr0

Imagine if that guy was touching Biden and grabbing his suit in the same way? Security would pounce immediately. It's weird.

Seems like he's had a pretty bad night in Iowa... lets see when there are finally some results.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 09:40
by René
Jacketh wrote:
bluesunstorm wrote:I hope Bernie isn't the nominee; he'd be a terrible general election candidate.

Biden would be damn awful too.

What's this "too" business? :oface:

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 10:14
by John27
Jacketh wrote:Stuff like this as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHqcr43qr0


Interesting seeing that video. I think I've seen excerpts of the video showing Biden's actions--but this was longer, and it was interesting hearing what Ed Fallon had to say.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 17:43
by mxguy01
Jacketh wrote:...


Exactly but. It really comes down to who has a chance to win the party and then hopefully viable enough to displace Trump. I don't thing Buttigieg can do that unfortunately. He's already alienated the black vote it appears. I actually didn't get where that came except for media and such twisting a few words he could have phrased better but the point was valid.

Interesting that this was written in Nov
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/21/us/p ... oters.html

The point about his ability to win Iowa but struggle later was a good prediction that I would not have expected. I've been struggling between Buttigieg, Warren and Bernie. I like Burnie from the aspect he would make some people that need to feel uncomfortable do just that. I think you actually talked me into Buttigieg. He has in my mind been the best choice. I shouldn't let the fact that I doubt his chances of winning because of other factors keep me from voting the correct choice and hoping for the best.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 February 2020, 22:55
by Brenden
Screenshot 2020-02-04 at 22.49.42.png


How does that make sense at all? Bernie getting the most caucusers on both first and final alignments, but then Buttplug getting assigned more SDEs (and then the New York Times reporting that he has a narrow lead)?

With the asinine delay to the results, this is starting to smell real fishy. Fuck the "Democratic" Party.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 00:22
by Derek
mxguy01 wrote:He's already alienated the black vote it appears. I actually didn't get where that came except for media and such twisting a few words he could have phrased better but the point was valid.

During his tenure as mayor of South Bend, he fired a black chief of police over a controversy where the chief had recorded his officers saying racist shit. He's also widely disliked by the black and latino communities of South Bend for his redevelopment programs which knocked down hundreds of homes and evicted hundreds of families.

I don't think I'd call him a racist, but he has the gentile sensibilities that victimize low-income people. It didn't help when his campaign published a list of endorsements for his (atrociously named) "Douglass Plan", which included black community leaders who had not endorsed it.

Personally, I think Pete is a glassy-eyed McKinsey psychopath and he'd be better off running as a republican if only republicans could stomach his sexual orientation.

I've been struggling between Buttigieg, Warren and Bernie. I like Burnie from the aspect he would make some people that need to feel uncomfortable do just that.

I don't see the thread that connects this line of thought. Bernie and Pete are about as different as candidates can get. Either you want transformational change and politics based on material interests, or you don't.

I think you actually talked me into Buttigieg. He has in my mind been the best choice. I shouldn't let the fact that I doubt his chances of winning because of other factors keep me from voting the correct choice and hoping for the best.

If, say, your priority for 2020 was to defeat Trump, I think electibility should be your primary concern. I don't see the point in betting on a long-shot like Pete when his politics don't even represent a departure from Clintonesque neoliberal norm that landed us here in the first place. What's the point? It's lose-lose.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 00:33
by Derek
Brenden wrote:How does that make sense at all? Bernie getting the most caucusers on both first and final alignments, but then Buttplug getting assigned more SDEs (and then the New York Times reporting that he has a narrow lead)?

With the asinine delay to the results, this is starting to smell real fishy. Fuck the "Democratic" Party.

I don't want to go in conspiracy-brained, but it has been pointed out that Pete's campaign has worked with the software company that developed the app, and the company was founded by former Hillary people, and is owned by the wife of one of Pete's advisors.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 03:29
by John27
Derek wrote:Personally, I think Pete is a glassy-eyed McKinsey psychopath


So does this mean you don't like him? :lol:

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 03:37
by John27
Derek wrote:he'd be better off running as a republican if only republicans could stomach his sexual orientation.


Republicans might change their minds one day... It's astounding how they've accepted Trump, even though on the surface you'd think they'd despise someone like Trump. So much their for "values"--except, of course, the way they value power. So if a gay candidate could win them the White House in future years, they might be willing to overlook the fact that he's gay.

And possibly a gay Republican president could help the Republicans as they assault LGBT rights. They'd have the: "Well, you see, we have a gay president! Highest office! So we don't need any special protections for LGBT people!"

Although I do admit that a gay president is probably more of a stretch than Trump was for them. Still, in this strange new world of election years that really make no sense by the rules I'd gotten used to, I'd say nothing is impossible!

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 03:40
by John27
I'll add: I'm not a fan of Buttigieg. But then I'm very much of a progressive.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 03:59
by Jacketh
René wrote:
Jacketh wrote:
bluesunstorm wrote:I hope Bernie isn't the nominee; he'd be a terrible general election candidate.

Biden would be damn awful too.

What's this "too" business? :oface:


:lol:

I actually think what makes Bernie a very good candidate - aside from his authenticity - is he keeps his messaging extremely simple, yet effective. You need that in modern day politics. So much of politics is unfortunately soundbites and having to try and sound good in 30 second interview answers and debate. A major problem with the left is getting bogged down trying to explain facts and rationale for doing something - Warren does this a lot (even though she isn't that left wing, point still applies).

Warren will spend 2 minutes trying to explain a policy and people switch off. Bernie will simply say "We are the richest country in the world. Everyone deserves the right to free healthcare". That is a lot more effective and to the point.

The only concern is similar to what happened in the UK, I guess. How effective will Trump and most of the media be at portraying him as an "old crazy, left wing, communist?" Sanders seems intelligent and has the ground game and social media know how to try and combat that - but I still worry.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 5 February 2020, 04:25
by John27
Jacketh wrote:I actually think what makes Bernie a very good candidate - aside from his authenticity - is he keeps his messaging extremely simple, yet effective.


Yes.

A major problem with the left is getting bogged down trying to explain facts and rationale for doing something - Warren does this a lot (even though she isn't that left wing, point still applies).


Yes.

This is something I've seen discussed before with US politics. The left--or what we have for a left ("left" is more centrist by world standards) gets bogged down in discussions. Meanwhile, the right has simple messages--like "cut taxes". Or "build the wall!

How effective will Trump and most of the media be at portraying him as an "old crazy, left wing, communist?"


I think it's a given that no matter who gets nominated that they'll get attacked with cracks like "socialist" or "communist" or "too far left". Even the most right wing Democrat would get attacked.

One plus to Sanders that was pointed out last time: unlike other candidates, he won't end up in an endless cycle of denial, and attempts to run right to counter "socialist" claims. He'd be more likely to shrug, and go back to talking about health care as a human right.

Another thing worth noting: socialism isn't necessarily the dirty word it once was. The current system is obviously not working for a lot of people, and younger voters can't even necessarily remember a time when US capitalism actually worked for normal Americans.