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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 August 2019, 18:59
by Derek
I don't know. The ghost of Strom Thurmond?

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 August 2019, 21:06
by Brenden
Derek wrote:I hope he does win the nomination. Trump winning a second term will melt whatever remains of the minds of the democratic party.

I'd prefer a more constructive outcome than mind-melting. I'd have hoped they learned from 2016, but alas. Perhaps they do need to completely crash and burn.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 August 2019, 21:47
by poolerboy0077
You know what they’re missing? More identity politics talking points!

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 August 2019, 22:23
by Derek
Can you imagine Trump debating Biden? Like just a contest over who can sundown the fastest?

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 4 August 2019, 22:38
by poolerboy0077
In a nutshell:

Image

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 00:57
by bluesunstorm
Sullivan wrote:
bluesunstorm wrote:Yeah, I don't think I'll be voting for president next year. I've been a Democrat since a teenager but I don't really think the party is for me anymore. I don't think any of them would beat Trump anyway.


What changes within the party do you oppose?

I'm curious to know, since you're in a state where Democratic votes might actually matter.

Mostly the giving entitlements to illegals and being laissez-faire about illegal immigration in general. When I was younger, I'd be like "Oh, who can it hurt? They just want a better life", but then I realized it's not the best to have millions of low-skilled people coming into you're country and putting strain on the system. Most countries are tough on immigration, but for some reason it's taboo in America to be. A country has the right to enforce immigration policy, just because the situation in your own country sucks does not give you the right to immigrate into a better one.

I know it's not PC to say this, but I feel the illegal immigration situation has gotten completely out of control. I

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 01:06
by erti
bluesunstorm wrote:
Sullivan wrote:
bluesunstorm wrote:Yeah, I don't think I'll be voting for president next year. I've been a Democrat since a teenager but I don't really think the party is for me anymore. I don't think any of them would beat Trump anyway.


What changes within the party do you oppose?

I'm curious to know, since you're in a state where Democratic votes might actually matter.

Mostly the giving entitlements to illegals and being laissez-faire about illegal immigration in general. When I was younger, I'd be like "Oh, who can it hurt? They just want a better life", but then I realized it's not the best to have millions of low-skilled people coming into you're country and putting strain on the system. Most countries are tough on immigration, but for some reason it's taboo in America to be. A country has the right to enforce immigration policy, just because the situation in your own country sucks does not give you the right to immigrate into a better one.

I know it's not PC to say this, but I feel the illegal immigration situation has gotten completely out of control. I


Where exactly do you get your facts?

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 02:33
by bluesunstorm
“Universal health care is a right regardless of immigration status ... I’m going to get the rest of that done, mark my words, and make progress next year and the year after that.” -- Gavin Newsom, Governor of California on extending Medicaid to the undocumented ages 19-25.

Not to mention that all the Democratic candidates agreed that their healthcare plans would extend coverage to illegal immigrants. The Pew Research Center also gave a 2017 estimate of 10.5 million illegal immigrants residing in the US.

This is a just an anecdote (not saying it's popular opinion, but it seems the Democratic Party is moving that way currently) from another forum from a far-leftist too describing progressive goals about entitlements:

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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 03:43
by Derek
What makes you say the illegal immigration problem is out of control? Weren't rates of immigration much higher in the Bush years?

Personally, I like Latin immigrants. They're nice and I think we should have more of them.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 03:49
by poolerboy0077
You had your insides rearranged by a darky, didn't you.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 03:53
by Derek
Yes - my heart.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 04:05
by bluesunstorm
Derek wrote:What makes you say the illegal immigration problem is out of control? Weren't rates of immigration much higher in the Bush years?

Personally, I like Latin immigrants. They're nice and I think we should have more of them.

I'm pretty sure the rates are really high currently, maybe even the highest they've ever been and there are already 10+ million residing illegally. It's nothing against immigrants personally (the only people I've seen against legal immigration are on the far-right fringe), but it should be done legally and they should be properly vetted. There are valid safety concerns about illegal immigration, and how it affects things on a macro level like wages and healthcare costs. Not to mention, it's not surprising that many citizens wouldn't be in favor of undocumented people receiving entitlements that the citizens themselves don't even qualify for.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 04:21
by Derek
bluesunstorm wrote:I'm pretty sure the rates are really high currently, maybe even the highest they've ever been and there are already 10+ million residing illegally.

erti wrote:Where exactly do you get your facts?

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 04:35
by poolerboy0077
Derek wrote:Yes - my heart.

Had no idea your heart was next to your prostate.



bluesunstorm wrote:
Derek wrote:What makes you say the illegal immigration problem is out of control? Weren't rates of immigration much higher in the Bush years?

Personally, I like Latin immigrants. They're nice and I think we should have more of them.

I'm pretty sure the rates are really high currently, maybe even the highest they've ever been and there are already 10+ million residing illegally. It's nothing against immigrants personally (the only people I've seen against legal immigration are on the far-right fringe), but it should be done legally and they should be properly vetted. There are valid safety concerns about illegal immigration, and how it affects things on a macro level like wages and healthcare costs. Not to mention, it's not surprising that many citizens wouldn't be in favor of undocumented people receiving entitlements that the citizens themselves don't even qualify for.

There's been a recent slight uptick this year, but it's been at historic lows. In fact, during the Obama administration, we had net zero immigration and held steadily until just a couple years ago. Quite ironically, it's been hawkish immigration policy that worsens the problem.




Derek wrote:
bluesunstorm wrote:I'm pretty sure the rates are really high currently, maybe even the highest they've ever been and there are already 10+ million residing illegally.

erti wrote:Where exactly do you get your facts?

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Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 04:45
by Derek
I don't understand why people have a problem with immigrants. They're nicer than Americans. They're less entitled and they have better work ethic. And if we didn't want them, maybe we should have thought of that before we supported coups/embargos in Honduras, Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, and wherever else?

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 04:57
by poolerboy0077
Derek wrote:I don't understand why people have a problem with immigrants. They're nicer than Americans. They're less entitled and they have better work ethic. And if we didn't want them, maybe we should have thought of that before we supported coups/embargos in Honduras, Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, and wherever else?

I'm going to sound like an insincere Trumpeteer and reiterate a talking point of theirs: The distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. The latter are able to be conveniently lumped in with drug cartel mercenaries, since technically Consuela from Family Guy and a cartel member who crosses through an underground tunnel both fall under the umbrella term.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 05:11
by bluesunstorm
Derek wrote:I don't understand why people have a problem with immigrants. They're nicer than Americans. They're less entitled and they have better work ethic. And if we didn't want them, maybe we should have thought of that before we supported coups/embargos in Honduras, Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, and wherever else?

So, we should just open our borders right up and not enforce immigration policies? The average American didn't want coups or embargos in Latin America and they sure don't want to just disregard immigration policy now. Sorry, but it's not a great argument if all it is is "they're nicer than Americans". Most Americas aren't that entitled by and large (except maybe our generation), and work and pay taxes and never use entitlements like SNAP and Medicaid. It still doesn't address how illegal immigration affects culture and workings on a macro level either.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 05:39
by erti
bluesunstorm wrote:
Derek wrote:I don't understand why people have a problem with immigrants. They're nicer than Americans. They're less entitled and they have better work ethic. And if we didn't want them, maybe we should have thought of that before we supported coups/embargos in Honduras, Guatemala, Cuba, Nicaragua, and wherever else?

So, we should just open our borders right up and not enforce immigration policies? The average American didn't want coups or embargos in Latin America and they sure don't want to just disregard immigration policy now. Sorry, but it's not a great argument if all it is is "they're nicer than Americans". Most Americas aren't that entitled by and large (except maybe our generation), and work and pay taxes and never use entitlements like SNAP and Medicaid. It still doesn't address how illegal immigration affects culture and workings on a macro level either.


Are you saying that people on SNAP and Medicaid are entitled? I'm on SSI and I get snap and Medicaid and Medicare. I don't think that makes me entitled. Sometimes people can't work. Sometimes people who DO work need Snap and Medicaid because their shitty job isn't enough to pay the bills and eat.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 05:42
by poolerboy0077
bluesunstorm wrote:So, we should just open our borders right up and not enforce immigration policies? The average American didn't want coups or embargos in Latin America and they sure don't want to just disregard immigration policy now. Sorry, but it's not a great argument if all it is is "they're nicer than Americans". Most Americas aren't that entitled by and large (except maybe our generation), and work and pay taxes and never use entitlements like SNAP and Medicaid. It still doesn't address how illegal immigration affects culture and workings on a macro level either.

I'm starting to think you're getting your, erm, information from memes on FB.

erti wrote:Are you saying that people on SNAP and Medicaid are entitled? I'm on SSI and I get snap and Medicaid and Medicare. I don't think that makes me entitled. Sometimes people can't work. Sometimes people who DO work need Snap and Medicaid because their shitty job isn't enough to pay the bills and eat.

Psst...

entitlement - A Federal program or provision of law that requires payments to any person or unit of government that meets the eligibility criteria established by law. Entitlements constitute a binding obligation on the part of the Federal Government, and eligible recipients have legal recourse if the obligation is not fulfilled. Social Security and veterans' compensation and pensions are examples of entitlement programs.

Re: 2020 US Presidential Election | Primaries | UPDATED POLL

Unread postPosted: 8 August 2019, 05:47
by erti
poolerboy0077 wrote:
bluesunstorm wrote:So, we should just open our borders right up and not enforce immigration policies? The average American didn't want coups or embargos in Latin America and they sure don't want to just disregard immigration policy now. Sorry, but it's not a great argument if all it is is "they're nicer than Americans". Most Americas aren't that entitled by and large (except maybe our generation), and work and pay taxes and never use entitlements like SNAP and Medicaid. It still doesn't address how illegal immigration affects culture and workings on a macro level either.

I'm starting to think you're getting your, erm, information from memes on FB.

erti wrote:Are you saying that people on SNAP and Medicaid are entitled? I'm on SSI and I get snap and Medicaid and Medicare. I don't think that makes me entitled. Sometimes people can't work. Sometimes people who DO work need Snap and Medicaid because their shitty job isn't enough to pay the bills and eat.

Psst...

entitlement - A Federal program or provision of law that requires payments to any person or unit of government that meets the eligibility criteria established by law. Entitlements constitute a binding obligation on the part of the Federal Government, and eligible recipients have legal recourse if the obligation is not fulfilled. Social Security and veterans' compensation and pensions are examples of entitlement programs.


Eh I guess I interpreted as this definition

en·ti·tled
/inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
adjective: entitled
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.